Our SN area is not a substitute for expert advice. While many Mumsnetters have a specialist knowledge of special needs, if they post here they are posting as members, not experts. There are, however, lots of organisations that can help - some suggestions are listed here. If you've come across an organisation that you've found helpful, please tell us. Go to Special needs chat, Parents with disabilities, SN teens, SN legal, SN education, SN recommendations.

Consequences for DC with PDA, and handling a current crisis

(102 Posts)
HotheadPaisan Fri 08-Mar-13 19:21:34

So, things are pretty much out of control at the moment. I can understand the need for consequences and so on, just not convinced it's going to work whilst DS1 is in a crisis. Also, attempts at implementing consequences are escalating things, which is to be expected.

Just wondered what others think. I want to concentrate on understanding what is causing this crisis, sometimes I think it's just some kind of development phase, others a testing of the waters, but he really is not in control at all and nobody is very sure what to do.

HotheadPaisan Tue 12-Mar-13 17:48:43

Grr, mine just not interested. So just found out respite care not for family, doesn't seem right to me, we can't reciprocate babysitting favours for S2 and organising multiple babysitters at the same time is hard.

ouryve Tue 12-Mar-13 17:34:10

Pffft. I found what I thought was that in my bookmarks but it was a dead link.

The joys of being back in the 21st century.

Yes, DS1 was predictably unimpressed to get home and find he couldn't use his computer at all. Even the giant cardboard box the postie had been good enough to deliver held no interest for him. The promise of having a go at gugl on my iPad helped him pull himself together. Pure novelty, though. Next week, he'll be straight into Plants V Zombies so he can feed all my chocolate to my snail at once.

HotheadPaisan Tue 12-Mar-13 11:39:30

Thanks, would appreciate it, that is absolutely right that consequences for him just make us suffer. And/or he does a very good job at affecting total disinterest. He'd really rather go without than comply. And sometimes we push him when he really can't cope and that is distressing, other time it's just totally about control without the anxiety. I know it's all linked but still there are differences. We need more support really. I took to rewarding flexibility with a malteser the other day but all these things only work for now.

ouryve Tue 12-Mar-13 09:43:41

There's not an awful lot we can do without punishing ourselves, either.

We managed to get a reasonably calm weekend out of him for once because he was desperate for DH to update Lego Digital Designer for him. This meant he had to try very hard not to lose his rag with DS2 over how he plays with his leapster. It took 3 days for him to earn it, but he got there in the end.

We've always tried to offer him reasonable choices and tailor consequences to his interests and coping ability at the time. It's not easy.

I remember reading an article about ADHD which mentions being selectively deaf. It focuses on the same behaviours exhibited with PDA. I'll see if I can find it, later (my power could go off any minute for the rest of the day, so I'll not try, now!) I think a lot of it would be teaching grandma to suck eggs, and it's very American, but I did find it very encouraging when I read it.

HotheadPaisan Tue 12-Mar-13 07:24:32

We do struggle with effective and immediate consequences because there is so little to use as collateral.

ouryve Mon 11-Mar-13 22:33:00

OK, so I'm late to this thread, but just a few thoughts based on current experience.

Consequences for DS1 might be seemingly small, but they're big to him. We make sure they're natural to the situation, too. His computer time after school is important to him. The other week, he deliberately trawled through every bit of sticky mud he could find on his way home. So he had to "help" me clean his shoes before he could use it. It was enough of an intrusion that he's not trailed through the mud since then. The amount of time he gets is tweaked according to his mood. Not less than an hour though. He's declared that as not worth having and it takes something pretty major, like sitting in the middle of the street and refusing to walk home or lurching from one screeching meltdown to another to have it completely curtailed.

School manage to cover lunch and break for both of the boys by making sure there's other TAs around in the gaps.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 18:34:19

I agree, thanks all, lots to think about but I want restraint to be an absolute last resort and only if there is immediate danger. This needed an indirect approach out of the earshot of others. There can still be consequences but addressing it immediately is bound to escalate things.

We've had a good chat today about why it is so dangerous to poke people's eyes, he does listen, and often genuinely apologises without prompting, he just can't respond and reflect in the moment.

magso Sun 10-Mar-13 17:52:59

Hopefully the school will use what happened to get more (appropriate) resources to support your son in unstructured time as well as class time. It sounds like social learning would be helpful so he has scripts to help him and give him confidence in the playground. Perhaps your child was sickening and short on skills as a result. When ever my son been restrained, ( with resulting major meltdown and distress) I think everyone involved has realised it was the wrong approach for my child. I find 'shepherding' works better especially once ds is distressed and beyond hearing. Hope it all calms down quickly but is a trigger for better support.

OneInEight Sun 10-Mar-13 15:59:55

For what its worth our area educational psychologist said that restraint should be an absolute last resort as it is likely to be perceived as traumatic (understatement) for the child and trigger a 'fight or flee' response.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 13:53:25

That's a report to increase the hours to FT btw.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 13:52:51

The LA have asked the Specialist Teaching Team to go back in and report back and that will happen next week. In the middle of all this DS1 is being sick so that's take the pressure off tomorrow as he can't go anyway now.

Interestingly, I think the funding changes and increase of Academies and so on means there will be no intervention/therapies without reports and targets and monitoring. Or there just won't be any intervention or therapies of course.

MareeyaDolores Sun 10-Mar-13 10:27:57

The school is choosing to manage this badly. Almost every area has a behaviour support team they can call on. Most have an ASD team who can advise. They all have access to educational psychology.

The school is strapped for resources, this may be linked to the fact they are choosing not to use these services to help manage your son.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 08:48:25

What happened should not have ended in restraint and containment, it just shouldn't have.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 08:47:07

Or they need to supervise and direct the play, which is what I've been saying forever. I was quite surprised there was no playtime support at all, I thought the number of hours he had included some.

PolterGoose Sun 10-Mar-13 08:44:08

They do, but ideally school staff need to recognise when your ds is on edge and take action then, easier said than done I know, but they need to be proactive, so if his LSA can see he is anxious he probably shouldn't be sent straight out to the playground.

justaboutalittlefrazzled Sun 10-Mar-13 08:43:42

Jeez, Hothead.

Poor you and poor DS1

<emotional and unhelpful>

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Mar-13 07:50:46

So, an immediate consequence was tried (playground assistant approached DS1) which resulted in DS1 bolting (he did quite a lap so this took time), he returned and the SENCo was fetched and approached him to talk to him and he tried to hit her but missed, he went to kick her and she put him in a T wrap, then another helper arrived and he kicked her, then he was carried by these two adults from the playground in to a small room and carried on kicking out then starting throwing things as he wasn't allowed to leave the room. Remember all that was played out in front of other children.

He knows he was in the wrong when a child refused to move from a seat he wanted and DS1 poked him, I bet he doesn't know it was it being his eye that was a particular problem.

Either way, this approach is just not going to work, he can't end up being restrained whenever he does something wrong. There has been incident after incident since.

He needs playtime support, the school can say there aren't the resources but look at all this time and effort around incidents. Just making him miss playtime after playtime isn't going to work either, there are lots of changes that could be made. He needs an indirect, non-public approach for a start, unless there is an incident that requires immediate physical intervention of course.

PolterGoose Sat 09-Mar-13 19:58:24

Mareeya grin

I just remember going through similar with ds.

<grabs poker>

MareeyaDolores Sat 09-Mar-13 19:53:43

<mareeya resists very strong urge to organise vigilante posse
armed with sharp sticks to poke in various eyes>

popgoestheweezel Sat 09-Mar-13 18:57:11

You are right to feel angry but just make sure you don't let your emotions undermine you. That's why I feel letter writing is so useful in situations like this. In your shoes, I would write a letter tonight, avoid thinking about it at all tomorrow until the evening when you can read it objectively and edit accordingly, then take into school office first thing Monday morning.

PolterGoose Sat 09-Mar-13 18:46:49

And to borrow from another MNer

You are your child's best, and only, advocate

PolterGoose Sat 09-Mar-13 18:45:31

You have every right to be angry. TBH the biggest problems I have had with ds's school is teacher arrogance.

I'm also very aware that my dealings with school are clouded and hindered as a result of my own experience of school, which was not good. I've tried really hard to overcome the wobbly incoherent mess that I become in some situations, including school.

It is time to tell them what to do.

magso Sat 09-Mar-13 18:45:27

I agree. Pop has summed it up well. This has gone from an isolated but serious (because of the potential for eye injury) to a huge incident because of the use of un warranted force by the adults (on your child) and the panic that caused. Effectively there are two incidents - the ?deliberate poking and injury - and the subsequent use of adult force, causing primal panic presumably beyond the control of the child. It is right to have a suitable consequence with learning for the first (missing rest of play, apology assuming eye injury was not the intention) but the latter needs a different mindset.
The restraint method used here is the approach method and that does require 2 adults. Each time this has been used on my (now older) child it has caused days of upset and a need for time at home.

HotheadPaisan Sat 09-Mar-13 18:40:04

Indeed, I can't believe I trusted them, I thought the rules and consequence route and lack of playtime support and social skills teaching was unlikely to work out but I was actually directly told 'we are the experts', with the unspoken message to back off and leave them to it. I am very, very angry.

popgoestheweezel Sat 09-Mar-13 18:39:34

I think they haven't got a clue. You need to let them know in writing how you see it and keep referring to their legal responsibilities. Is every child matters is still current? Refer to that and the sencop. They are totally letting him down by using the possible worst management techniques.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now