Statementing Assessment Timetable Breach?

[MarmadukeScarlet]

It was my DS' Panel today, I called my AEN officer afterwards.

They have decided to issue a statement, she told me over the telephone what it was because she admitted today was the 18 weeks date.

(6 weeks from informing me they are thinking about it to deciding if they will make one, 10 weeks to carry out an assessment at the end of which they decide if they are going to make a statement, 2 weeks to issue a proposed statement from the decision)

So I should, to be in line with their guide, have a proposed statement in my hand now.

AEN said she can't even discuss what went on until WEds when she has a copy of the minutes in front of her in case I ask any difficult questions .

Yes I know the outcome of the proposed statement, but it is not at all what I wanted - although I realise I am better off than some - can this breach of timescale be played to my advantage?

I contacted an Educational Lawyer to get estimate of going to tribunal with legal support, christ on a bike! And it's not no win no fee either.

Where from here? Parents Partnership? SENDIST? Words of wisdom anyone?

[bigfatuglybitch]

partnership with parents, and sendist are the ones to go to for now, go for the tribunal as well.

[MarmadukeScarlet]

Have spoken to PWP and they were not that helpful at this stage. I haven't seen proposed statement and they just said I'd have to fill in a form saying if I agree/disagree with proposal and then I would have to go to appeal.

PWP also said I would have to state my reasons for him not going to any of the more local schools, as they have said they will not fund LEA in his current school, but I have already stated these reasons in my application and do not have any new ones!

I have called my AEN officer and she is now emailing me the minutes, as they have just been signed. She says they have not specified a school as yet.

[silverfrog]

Marmaduke - we are going through the same thing.

We have actually received dd1's proposed statement, and yes, you do get a form to fill in with agree/disagree and have sent a letter/disagree and want a meeting.

We ahve sent that back (requesting a meeting) and are now waiting for contact to arrange said meeting...

I know what you mean about educational lawyer osts too - we have one waiting in the wings, as we are sure we will need her.

I think we are fairly close geographically - no coincidence that we are both being messed about with statements, really!

[MarmadukeScarlet]

That is interesting. I'm under KCC btw.

Just had a long chat with AEN following emailed minutes.

She is going to speak to her Principal and tell her I'm unhappy. I reiterated my valid reasons for not wanting him to go to any of the nearby schools - as I live in the sticks my 2 nearest schools have 2 year groups per class. DS is an August birth so already up to a year younger than oldest in recep, add to that his 1 year (+/-) GDD he is functioning a 2 years below oldest in class. Factor into that they will be taught in the same class as children in Yr 1 he will be functioning at 3 years below the older members in the class - I do not think this will help his confidence or self esteem.

Also they are very small schools so the resources they have for SN are limited - one does additional reading (for SN children) in the middle of the computer area, there is no way my DS could look at a book if he was surrounded by 10 computers! it was also part of the main hall, which could be seperated by curtain wall thing, but a much too big and interesting space to get a sn child to focus surely?

The other local school (a bit further away) in huge, with an intake of 90 for reception. My DS has mobility and balance issues (currently both legs in plaster and using walker, but does not have walker when not plastered) also hypercusis (very sensitive to loud noises)
so a playground of this size, even only reception children would be way to much for him - as would a class of 30 tbh.

Why should I have to move him from the school he currently attends where his teacher is so proud of him, his achievements and attitude her eyes sometimes well up when she is telling me about it. LOL she says "I had a 'proud mummuy' moment today!"

[silverfrog]

yes, we are KCC too. iirc you are vaguely near TW? we are in out in the sticks too, and there isn't a suitable school for dd1 - the nearest is up near Tonbridge (we are Kent/ East sussex border)...

I am fairly sure that the LA are going to try to argue for one of the schools in TW, but it is not suitable for dd1, for similar reasons to yours with your ds (size of class, noise issues etc)

The proposed statement that they sent was made out for another year of pre-school. Dd1 is 4 in august, so this would technically not be the end of the world, except for the fact that she is not progressing at all in her lovely, friendly mainstream pre-school, so why waste another year?!

If dd1 is due a Statement (which they have agreed she is) then she should go somewhere with specialised staff, rather than someone who has looked up the definition of ASD!

[MarmadukeScarlet]

DS is 4 in August and they are saying he should enter school in Sept 2008 or Jan 2009 into ms reception, even though in his current school (well nursery of school) he is held back one year in with children who are of his developmental level.

I think I know the school you mean and you do not go there until term after 5? DS also offered a place there but Neuro, Ed Psch and current SN (part placement) nursery advice is for MS school with high level support. Which they have offered me but not in my school of choice - some people are never satisfied !

You have a good memory remembering me. I used to live the other side of the Kent/ESx border until 11 yrs ago, in a cute village.

Can you not get her into Ravensdale (TWells)for a year? Although they have 8 new children starting in Sept and there is a waiting list.

Such a stress the whole thing isn't it? Good luck.

[silverfrog]

she is starting there in Sept (after 2 years on the waiting list!)

So she will have 2 days there, and the current plan (given lack of statement) is to keep her at m/s pre-school for 3 mornings as well (same as she does now).

we want her to go to an ASD unit in Tonbridge (would start january) but I think the LA are getting stressy about numbers, and so that is why they want her to stay in pre-school for the full year. Numbers are not my problem though.

I also think that the LA do not think she is capable enough to go to the unit, but tbh if she stays in m/s she is not going to exhibit her skills - too noisy/overwhelming.

hopefully once she starts at R they will see more of her true nature, but I'm not entirely convinced. Her current SALT is from R, and she does not seem to take on board that dd will NOT use PECS. so a lot of energy is wasted trying to get dd to do so, when if you spend a fraction of the time getting her to vocally imitate what you want her to say, she gets it instantly...

I have a feeling that we might get the suggestion of m/s with high level support (or not so hgh level really, her proposed statement had 7 hours on it, when dd1 will be attending 10 hours m/s and 12 hours at R) but it is just not suitable.

[MarmadukeScarlet]

There are some funny old rules regarding this sort of thing.

DS has some SCAG funding (Serious and Complex something) but only 5 sessions of 2.5 hours, although he spends 2 sessions at R and 4 at a M/S, R gets first priority (as they also do with Early years grant) so I am paying for DS' lea (one to one) for several hours a week at his ms provision.

Generally with the ASD unit or O (where DS was offered a place) they do not start until after they are 5, so if DS was going to O he could stay on at R until end of summer term 2009. This has been the same with 90% of DC leaving R.

[silverfrog]

god, they never tell me anyhting at all! dd1's place at R is for 2 terms, i have been told, which is why I am getting antsy about what happens over the full academic year.

I have spoken to the unit direct, and they are happy to have her (post assessment for a place, which she should breeze tbh) from January, as that is when she would be going into reception if she was going m/s

dd1 has SCAG funding too, and has 3 x 2.5hr sessions. No-one has yet spoken to me about how they might apportion htis once she is at two different settings (although i have had a very vague "the funding won't stretch"). i don't know whether she gets 3 x 2.5 hrs because that is what she does at m/s, so that is what they funded. I mean, i don't know whether her SCAG funding would be increased when her hours increase next term.

we have a nanny who is delivering our home ABA programme, and so if push comes to shove then she could do the m/s cover hours, but that is why we have rejected the proposed statement. dd1 needs 1-2-1 at all times, otherwise she is passive to the point of comatose in a m/s setting.

It is such a minefield - that's why we have a solicitor in the wings, as it is becoming ever more apparent that no-one is telling us the full story.

[MarmadukeScarlet]

Out of interest who are you using? I have approached a well known one who is based in Glous. Their estimate is £7.5k from final statement to appeal, inc Barrister.

DS' place at R was only an assessment place 4 terms in their money (2 in mine iyswim) as they run a 6 term year. He has been there over 1 year now, he hated the first year as there were some seriously aggressive DC there and he is very passive and easy to push over, he cried most drop offs for one whole academic year - it was heartbreaking. Both left before Xmas and so far since Jan not a single tear or problem dropping him off.

I think one of the prioblems is that no-one knows the whole picture. My panel notes stated that DS was getting 3 sessions at his ms - news to me! I called and asked SENCO at KCC, she confimed this but no-one had contacted me or the ms school and we had only been claiming for 2 as that was the initial award!!

There doesn't seem to be any one point of contact who knows what is going on, I have found this since DS was little.

[silverfrog]

we are using htese. They came recommended from an ABA school we looked around. We figured if they could win the full ABA schooling battle then they were probably pretty good. I think the estimate came in at £10k though.

Yes, dd is down for R for 2 old terms, so 4 kent terms. I didn't realise that her place could be extended, as I thought the pressure on places was so great that they would shift her on asap. I suppose we'll see what happens once she gets there.

We are going to look around on Thurs afternoon, so will be asking questions then. Is your Senco AE? She is ours, and tbh we don't really get on...

I too have found that no one seems to know what anyone else is doing. It is ridiculous really, and makes for tedious meetings where everyone frantically tries to catch up on what is happening!

[MarmadukeScarlet]

Yes AE although I though She was PW & C cluster only? I actually find her OK, but I find all of them a little trying.

Who is your SALT at R? RN? Find her more frustrating tbh!

Dear God you wait until you meet the staff at R, goodness me I've had sonme heated discussions! The review meetings are painful, everyone writes a report, everyone gets a copy of all reports but each author has to read aloud what is written in their report despite the fact everyone has a copy. I realise that many parents may have low literacy levels and this would be appropriate for some, but should be tailored to the needs of the parent attending - a complete waste of time (for me anyway) imho.

What is ABA? As DS not ASD not come across this before.

So if they are suggesting that you keep DD in nursery placement and do not start mainstream school (if that is the route taken) until Sept 2009 would DD be going into Reception or Yr 1? Am nosey I know, but this is relevant to our situation as DS currently held back a year and I would like this to continue. DS born 19 Aug.

[silverfrog]

We are the C in PW&C! She is ok, but I just find her a bit wet. I have heard on the grapevine that she is moving on.

Yes, we have the pleasure of RN, and we do have trouble there as dd1 is not particularly enamoured, and so it is hard to keep her even in the same room sometimes!

ABA is a type of behavioural intervention used mainly with ASD, but tbh it benefits dd2 just as much. we basically have to teach dd1 everyhting slowly and surely (am sure you are no stranger to this) and so in a nutshell it is a teaching method - more here - this is the clinic we use. We are currently working on dd1's matching and discrimination skills, along with motor imitation.

Tbh, it's not rocket science, and is an extension of normal (to me) parenting boundaries and methods, but by using a consultant,we have a framework to work to, rather than the haphazard methods i was using...

The problems we have with it are that AE, RN, and most others (Portage for eg) are fairly anti-ABA, as they still think of it as it was back in the '60s - a fairly harsh, rigid, method rather than the extension of play approach we are taking. they are convinced it will not be compatible with any of their methods. Since their methods are not working, i'm not sure that this incompatibility will be hugely detrimental! And within a week, dd1 has gone from lots of inappropriately used learnt phrases (eg "would you like a drink" when she is thirsty) to saying "mummy, I'd like a drink". Seems to work for us, then!

RN commented last week that she'd never seen dd1 so calm, and on task...

I can't see dh taking kindly to meetings like the ones you describe! Still, I'm sure we are fairly well known there already for complaining (which is why we have the pleasure of RN as SALT when dd1 doesn't even attend there yet - we complained that she was not getting any SALT)

I'm not sure what the suggestion re reception/year 1 is. Not sure that they know. dd1 is Aug 8th birthday, so technically if she does not go this academic year then she will go into year 1, but if she goes to the unit then there aren't really any proper class distinctions, it would just be clarified for school transition ages. If your ds is held back currently, has KCC agreed to keep him held back? As I understood that when it came to secondary transition KCC were buggers for then getting you to make up the year differnce, and so you ds would have to skip a year? That's what I was told re dd1 anyway. So any benefits gained would be lost (and then some).

[MarmadukeScarlet]

When folk say K/S borders I always think of Wadhurst/Frant area for some reason!

He is at a fee paying school and will probably remain so for his academic life to ensure he is kept back a year, so school leaving age/proper peer groups only become an issue within the state sector.

I find the approach at R frustrating in it's lack of targets/acheivement for the DC - sand timers are rarely used to encourage focus for the DC, when DS started he spent 4 terms wandering around with a train/car in his hand and did very little else.

Also no member of staff in the room, including his keyworker, knew Makaton which was his main/only communication when he started at 2.5 yr old. Wow I had some 'discussions'!

I think for many of the parents, not so much the current ones, it was the only break they got and they were not so concerned what took place

This is the rub, we have been offered on Statement the serivces we need but not at his current school. A good friend has been offered good support in a different fee paying school, but had to go to appeal/tribunal (using the Ed L we are planning to use) to get it. Her case was recent and I made reference to it in my parental info.

KCC cannot have a blanket ban on fee paying schools as this is against their own policy/guidelines as in some instances a fee paying school would be the most relevant - each case has to be taken as individual.

[silverfrog]

I wish we could find a fee paying school that would accomodate dd1. Even the smallest of classes is enough to overwhelm her htough, there is just too much going on and she has quite a hearig sensitivity, and so she needs the specialist autism understanding. Hopefully, after a few years in the unit, she will be able to transfer to a m/s private school. where is your ds (understand if you would rather not say)?

We did find a private special school (the ABA one) but the fees are £40k and that is just alittle beyond our budget...

Those are exactly the fears I have about R - dd1 is all to often left to wander aimlessly. I think it is because the emphasis is always on choice making, and so if she does not make a choice then she is left to do he own thing. I bypass this, and say "right, dd1, let's do some stacking (or other known activity) and she sits with me and does... Don't get why they are so keen on choices that they would rather leave her doing nothing than prompt an activity!

I think we are going to end up having many rows about PECS - they will try to repeatedly get dd to use it, when she can actually ask for the stuff verbally. If they spent even 1/10th of their energy in getting her comfortable enough to talk (or indeed, insisting that she does - why should she bother if they are going to let her get away with not doing so?), rahter than insisting on a system she doen't need, then she'd be well away.

we are going forward with the statement issue on the basis that they have agreed that she needs statement help. and so it should be in a setting appropriate to her needs, which her m/s pre-school clearly is not as she has not progressed at all during her time there

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

IPSEA www.ipsea.org.uk can provide a representative at Tribunal but you need to contact them asap.

PP are in the employ of the LEA and are thus not totally impartial.

[MarmadukeScarlet]

Thanks Attila, PP have been helpful (including telling me that a sentence on my discussion note was against their guidelines)

Have called ipsea, have told me that I won't get a rep as they only have a certain no of volunteers and they were overwhelmed.

I asked what the allocation criteria was and she said, "Forgive me for sounding rude but you sound literate and articulate, many of our parents are not capeable of representing themselves." I politely pointed out that this is also why I don't get to have a SW or other areas of support.

Being MC can be a barrier to many forms of help as I am deemed to be intelligent enough and to have enough resources to deal with everything.

Well, actually I don't.

I am exhausted and as stressed as the next parent with a SN (actually 2 SN) child(ren), I have a DH that works away in USA/OZ/Singapore 75% of the time. I have no family as parents are dead and MIL is 75 and in poor health.