in an ideal world what kind of support would you expect for your sn child in school?

[aefondkiss]

and how does it compare to what they get?

if your child has one to one, would you expect the TA to have some kind of sn/sen training?

is there somewhere I can read up on this/research it?

tia

[acthmt]

I think depends on needs ... In an ideal world they'd all receive 1:1 or small groups of no more than 4 students

[deeeja]

In an absolutely ideal world, all schools would be planned and built around the needs of the children, instead of the cheapest way to herd all children together and see who comes out top dog.
4 or 5 to a class, teachers not harrassed and not having to stick to stupid targets, a good all-round education for all children.
However within the current restraints, I would like my ds to have a constant 1:1, during breaks and lunch times, who would also come and see my ds during holiday periods. LSA should definately have sen training, which is up to date, and receive higher rate of pay.

[discoverlife]

A 1:1 that stays with the child all the way through their school life. One that has training, and knowledge of your childs condition. Much smaller classes for every child. Etc.Etc. Its one of the reasons for HE'ing my DS.

[aefondkiss]

Deeja, does your son's LSA have up to date/any training?

my ds got one to one help, as of a couple of weeks ago, I thought it would be someone with training but I overheard his LSA(?) speaking to another mum, and (LSA) said she used to volunteer to help in the school and is now doing it as a job... the way she talks to my ds is not how I would expect someone to speak to any child but slow, high pitched, patronising voice... not naturally, as I would hope.

I know I am lucky for ds to have one to one, it is maybe unreasonable of me to be questioning this, but I am....

[acthmt]

Aefondkiss.. most LSA/SSAs receive on the job training... it's not a highly paid job and they get their termly pay spread over a year... Very few see it is as a vocation, just a job which works (usually) around their children or commitments that pays them . They are now being trained as DFCS has finally introduced appropriate courses, but to some extent it is discretionary as courses cost and schools have finite budgets - priorities are for teacher training. It's not unreasonable for you to question it and if you have questions you could talk to his class teacher or SSA.

[deeeja]

Aefondkiss, my ds has not started school yet, so does not have a LSA. He is about to start in September, although I would rather he went to a special school for asd becuase I have problem with whole support structure offered for sen.
There is one in my area that has a good reputation, but it is extremely hard to get in. I am thinking about home-educating, which is what I will most likely do.
I think you should complain about your LSA and tell them you want one who is properly trained. The whole point is that your ds should be able to access the curriculum. It is disgusting what they make us and our children go through!

[discoverlife]

My sons LSA's (15 hours shared between them) were already working at the school and were asked if they would like the extra hours. They were untrained dinner ladies, (nothing against dinner ladies) they were already cleared for working with children, there was no extra paperwork concerning new bank accounts etc. Ideal- for the school. Not for my son.
At least in his previous school his LSA had been advertised for and given after 3 months of searching to a qualified Special Needs teacher who wanted to slide back into schooling after having her own kids.

Did you know that one quarter of children who are Home Educated are SEN, because of the diabolical provision for their education.

[Whizzz]

acthmt - as a TA (secondary) I think your comments about very few see the job as a vocation is a bit harsh. Yes it is convenient if you work the same hours as your child, but not that many do in my experience.
As far as I am aware all TAs have to have a recognised induction course as the very minimum of training. Many school seem reluctant to pay for training - eventhe the TAs are jumping up & down asking for some!

[acthmt]

Sorry Whizzz if you think I'm being harsh but reality often is... and it is just what I've seen... did you see it as a vocation - honestly? The TAs I work with are mostly mums who want to do a job that fits around their children... doesn't mean that they don't do a good job or want to do the best for their charges. The introduction of induction courses is relatively recent (I think it was 2004) prior to that it was usually on the job training... as I said training is now being rolled out but like everything it's down to the finite supply of money. I certainly agree about the importance of training and at my school they are starting to train the TAs in particular areas... we now have a speech and language TA, a ASD support, two that help with the weakest students and the rest provide in class support. This question was about an ideal world situation and as I said early on I think 1:1 or groups of 4. I was also replying to the OPs query about training and her experience with her son's LSA.

[Whizzz]

Well I would love to see it as a vocation BUT I am finding it incredibly hard to get the school to pay for any specific training to make me more of a specialist (& less as a paid mum!). Most of the training courses seem to be geared towards teachers & so won't accept you if you are not a qualified teacher. There are plenty of day long courses, but I'm finding it very hard to find a recognised SEN qualification (other than generalised things like NVQ/BTEC etc - which I have, paid for by myself). Unfortunately in my (brief) experience the schools seem to quite like to keep us the lowest of the low & hate to think that we have 2 braincells to rub together (certainly our HT for one!).

[TotalChaos]

My friend's mum did it as a vocation - she started off doing the work as an unpaid volunteer, and proved to have so much knack for it that school persuaded her into doing the training and doing it on a paid basis.

[acthmt]

Whizzz this is something that makes me really cross... the money for training comes out of what tehy call the "Standards Fund" the govt made £51 million available and it depends on whether/what/how the school decided to access it ... I try to at every opportunity I'm going on a course for SLCN with one of our TAs and she's really studying hard for it .... the other is actually working his way up to qualified teacher status ... it certainly depends on your school, and more importantly your LEA...

HLTA (higher level Teaching Assistant) qualifications are available .... they start with NVQ level 1s and go right up bordering on teaching qualifications... apparently they are looking to make 20,000 TAs HLTA by 2010 in a 3 year strategy (at least as I read it that was how I interpreted) but as to whether or not the funding is really there who knows.

Whizz if you're up for it google teaching qualifications and look on your LEA intranet or internet for courses ... unfortunately you tend to find that the only one interested in CPD is the person themselves. Good luck.

CAt64 very good point... I like the idea of teaching specific groups of children with similar needs together though

[sugarpear]

My sons school is fab he's had 1:1 since he was at the nursery there. His now year 1 and his lsa is lovely they all are.

[Whizzz]

acthmt - I know I am pondering HLTA but feel as though I need another year of experience under by belt at least (& then don't really want to be used as a cut price teacher!). I have a meeting with SENCO to discuss - I want to specialise in an area such as autism or dsylexia but its sooooo hard to find anything useful. I can't even get school to buy any decent books on the topics with out a struggle

[aefondkiss]

thanks for all the replies...

I think the job does suit parents, but that is not necessarily a bad thing... it is the lack of training that concerns me... I suppose I should be , mostly grateful for the support, but I do have concerns.

[aefondkiss]

cat64 would you know where to get links for such courses... not sure if I can do this but I might ask about training and courses at the next school meeting about my ds.

[acthmt]

www.teaching-assistants.co.uk/ Here's a starting point ... it seems to have some links but also have a look at your LEA/local college website if interested - it varies quite drastically from area to area.

[catok]

I apologise for keeping doing this - I recommend people from there to try mumsnet and vice versa! Try www.ta.forumup.org

• they have been helpful for steering me in the right direction.

[aefondkiss]

thanks catok and achtmt, it is good to have the links.

[moondog]

As salt in this field,the biggest scandal is what some of you have pointed out,mainly that any Tom Dick and Harry is brought in to do what is a complex and intellectually challenging job.

I have long argued with my LEA that they would be better off training fewer people properly rather than recruiting scores of people most of whom know nothing about SN.

[catok]

Sorry - and the other bit - DSs TA wanted to work at the primary school as a 'classroom helper', has never been a TA before and has been shocked by being used as his TA. She is frequently rude to him and makes threats and doesn't have a clue about ASD. So when he hides under the table, rocking and humming, he's 'insolent and spoilt'. umm...
I'm also a teacher working as a secondary LSA so I can pick my children up and make his end of day transition as smooth as possible.
Although I'm putting DSs needs first, I also love working with other people's children, trying to get the best out of each day.
I'd like all TAs to have some specific training, especially if working 1-1, in how to treat pupils with respect along with a technical understanding of all their needs.
And yes, I need more on the job training in specific areas and I'm told there is no money. We do have an LS day with outside speakers once every 2 years!!

[sugarbabe]

I started as a welfare assistant after christmas. I suport a child with aspergers and dyspraxia. I used to work in a preschool, am NVQ3 qualified, have done courses on asd and dyspraxia.
My DD also has dyspraxia and aspergers tendencies... although this is not public knowledge. Maybe the parents there think I am just a mum where as I think I'm well qualified for the job. I see it as a long term job and am planing to work with him till he leaves for secondary school...