Looking at schools for "twice exceptional" DS - any tips?

[ladygrinningsoul]

We have a week of school tours coming up to look at potential schools for DS who is due to start in Reception in September 2008. He has a dx of high functioning autism but is very bright with reading and number skills far in advance of his age group (according to nursery). He has a speech delay but is rapidly catching up, and some fine motor problems (pen grip etc). He loves learning and functions well in a fairly structured environment.

Any tips as to what I should look for at the schools, and what questions to ask?

[ladygrinningsoul]

I forgot to say, we were told that it was pretty unlikely that he'd get a statement as he is not academically behind.

[Bink]

Are you looking at private or state? Specialist or mainstream?

Presuming you are looking at state mainstream - I would say you want a school which does not state a low percentage of SN on its roll, as low percentage often just means that they're not good at identifying (and accordingly not that interested in helping). I am not sure what the right sort of percentage would be, but I'd say more than 10%.

Beyond that - I'd say you want evidence of good settled admin (so that you can be sure the environment is reliably structured) - both from how the school presents itself & from what parents already there say.

I'd ask to have a personal meeting with the SENCO and see if he or she is a person you think you'd work well with. That working relationship seems like a crucial link for parents in your situation.

I can't suggest anything more as I send my ds to a specialist independent school, which is a different story.

[coppertop]

I have 2 boys with HFA/AS who are both at a mainstream primary and both very bright. I would be looking at things like:

• How many teaching assistants will be available in the classroom in case ds needs extra help?
  
  
• Does the school have contact with an autism outreach team? If not, will they contact them (if there's one in your area) before ds starts school?
  
  
• What exceptions will they be prepared to make for your ds? eg ds1 found carpet-time difficult so was allowed to sit on a cushion or chair if he wanted, and ds2 is allowed to always sit on the end of the row at assembly time. Some schools unfortunately think that some things are non-negotiable.
  
  
• Does the SENCO also teach or are they a full-time SENCO IYSWIM? IMHO a full-time SENCO can get more done than a SENCO who also has a class to teach.
  
  
• Are the school prepared to be flexible about when ds starts full-time? My ds2 was fine with going full-time when the rest of his group did but ds1 needed a much more gradual approach.
  
  
• Will the school be prepared to let ds visit a few times before he starts there? A lot of schools now offer the chance to spend a couple of half-days with the current Reception class.
  
  
• Will the school recognise that even though your ds can read well he will probably need extra help with comprehension? eg ds1's teacher recognised very early on that even though he could read very well that he needed easier books to help him build up his language and comprehension skills.
  
  You could also ask about how much experience the school has with autism. Ds1 was the first child at his school to start Reception with a dx of autism but the school also had experience of older children with AS. A lack of experience isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Sometimes you will get schools who have previously taught one child with autism and then make the mistake of thinking that all other children with autism will be exactly the same.

[ladygrinningsoul]

Hi Bink, many thanks, we are looking at state mainstream and one private mainstream (an academic boys' school), where we have already paid a deposit. One sixth of the boys at the private mainstream have support for some kind of LDD but none of them have a statement. So what you've said makes me feel pretty reassured about that. We want to keep an open mind and look at state as well - I'm going to check the ofsted reports now to see the percentage of SN.

The plan is to meet with the SENCOs next, after eliminating any schools we can at this stage.

[Dinosaur]

Hi, ladygrinningsoul!

My DS1 (now 8) was also dx'd with HFA (when he was 3) but has managed very well in mainstream (non-private) school. He has never had a statement of SEN, although he has always been provided with extra help at school via School Action Plus (which your DS should definitely also get).

My advice would be to look for a school where they already have a fair number of children with autism and preferably with recognised specialist expertise in autism. For example, the school DS1 attends has an autism resource base and input from specialist teachers. It is very important that the majority of teachers and learning support assistants in the school really do understand autism. Many children with HFA can function very well academically but may have problems, for example, with lining up to go into the dinner hall, or sitting still in assembly. You need to find a school where they understand autism and will not automatically label your son as a naughty or disruptive child if he has difficulties in these areas.

As your DS is bright, you should also find out about (dreadful term but we are stuck with it) the G&T aspect of things as he may well benefit from more challenging work in certain areas. My DS1 is in the G&T bracket and is regarded as particularly good at maths, so he gets extra and more stretching maths work.

My advice would also be to avoid (or at least, treat with caution) very aspirational schools in burgeoning middle class areas because these are more likely to have an eye on their SATS and continuing to attract more middle-class offspring to their schools and, sadly, may not be as accommodating to SN as they should be.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Ladygrinningsoul,

So you also have been told the same old crap (who told you this exactly?) about DS not likely to get a statement as he is not academically behind. So they're happy to potentially let him struggle then!.

LEA's cannot use blanket policies or discriminate by law e.g by saying that a child has to be X years behind his peers.

If there is not yet a Statement of Special Needs in place for your son, I would seriously consider applying for such a document from the LEA asap. There is nothing to stop you asking and if the LEA refuse, appeal. You as the parents have far more power than a school does in this regard; do not listen to the nay sayers who can put parents off!!.

Be wary of School Action Plus as well; this needs careful monitoring on your part as support on such a plan is limited and depends very much on the school.

IPSEA are very good at all this and have model letters you can use. www.ipsea.org.uk.

[ladygrinningsoul]

Thanks very much, all this is extremely helpful. Coppertop, you hit the nail on the head about the comprehension - DS is very poor at understanding what is going on in a story book unless it is very simple.

Attila, it was the paed and SALT who saw DS who said he was unlikely to get a statement. I don't think they were trying to put us off applying, just warning us we needed a Plan B. We currently have an application pending to Early Years funding by DS' nursery to get some extra 1 to 1 to help develop his language and group imaginary play. We now have 2 SALTs, a paed, an OT and the area SENCO involved with this.

My plan was to start the application for the statement in January as we were told it takes 6 months. DS is due for a reassessment then and the idea was to wait to see how his speech developed to get a clearer understanding of what his problems in school were likely to be and the extent to which his social communication problems are independent of his language delay. If his language failed to progress there was the option of a language unit but that is now looking unlikely to be necessary.

Do you think I should start the ball rolling on the statement now? Or straight after looking at the schools?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

The LEA will make the decision re the decision re statutory assessment, not the paed and SALT.

Put your request in for the Statement asap to the LEA. Little point in waiting till January, that only delays his application further. There is nothing to stop you applying for it now even though the reassessment is in January.

Would think you will get Early Years funding for the preschool but the situation is very different when it comes to transfer to Infants (hence me suggesting apply for the statement now).

[mimsum]

it's nonsense that kids won't get a statement unless they're academically behind - both my ds are way ahead of the rest of the class academically but both have statements as they struggle with pretty much everything else

[TotalChaos]

am viewing this thread with considerable interest, as in a similar position to LGS, but my DS language is probably further behind. Am hoping he will get into a language unit, but obviously can't rely on it.

Re:statementing - DS has had NO NHS appointments yet (has had a few private SALT appts - she says he has severe speech delay). Should I wait till NHS appointments (due early next year) to apply for a statement, or should I apply for one for DS now on basis of the severe speech delay?

[daisy5678]

My son is 6 (just). Has a reading age of between 8 and 10 (depending of his level of co-operation with whichever teacher does the test . Also ahead in every area but writing (fine motor problems leads to refusal to attempt). So he's ahead of his peers in every area but was statemented purely for EBD (emotional and behavioural difficulties). Got 23 hours' one-to-one; the school top that up to 31 and he also has small group work on social skills with the Behaviour Support Service once a week through his statement. So, yeah - the whole not needing to be behind thing is a lie!

[daisy5678]

Total chaos - they play the game of 'oh, we can't meet the needs if they're not officially identified by a professional so refused to put my son's fine motor skills problems in the statement or make any provision for them until we'd waited a year for the OT appointment. Then he was identified as being on 2nd centile so NOW he'll get some help...but not until it was all measured and official.

So you could start the assessment process, especially as it will take so long with all the times you'll get turned down (sorry to be so cynical, but it's so rare to have a yes first time without lots of double bluffing and threatening to go to tribunal), but you'd get more from the statement with a SALT report. That might actually hurry up the waiting list though, as if the LEA agree to statutory assessment (the stage before being granted a statement) then they have a duty to assess your child, so you could get them to nag about the waiting list. Our OT appointment came through quicker that way.

Good luck!

[TotalChaos]

Thanks very much for that helpful and thoughtful reply teachermum

[ladygrinningsoul]

We've seen 3 schools now. Initial feelings are that DS would require much more support at either of the state schools than at the independent school because the environment in reception at the state schools is so much busier and less structured.