As many have said: if I know my DS is full of milk/not interested in milk, in a clean nappy, at the right temperature, burped and not displaying symptoms of illness, then I am happy to see if he can soothe himself within a couple of minutes. I leave the room and wait outside the door and maybe it's not even "controlled crying" that I'm doing because if he doesn't stop crying or if it becomes more intense, I do return to soothe him - but very, very rarely do I need to do this. Within three or four minutes max., he's accepted the sleep his body craves and needs.

Since very early days, when necessary, I have been able to put him down in his cot for a nap or bedtime, awake but silent and content, and he just goes to sleep - so I wanted to see if the same ability to independently reach sleep could be achieved when he was having one of those winding down, needing-sleep-but-fighting-it cries, when there is seemingly nothing I can do for him and soothing or rocking seem to agitate him more!

Is it better for my DS to fall asleep after five minutes of grizzly crying or for me to spend an hour or two patiently rubbing his back and shhhing him only for him to fall asleep on my chest and then start up again upon being placed in his cot, and so he is picked up again and the cycle continues until he finally, finally tires himself out with his crying anyway?

Well done Cardigan - when they're screaming there is gerenally a reason which is why I wouldn;t condone leaving a baby screaming, however you seem to be doing something right as when she burped she happily setteled herself. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Little update...

....felt horrible last night as she was screaming, so I went to see her straight away, picked her up....giant burp! After that when I put her down, she cried literally for 20 seconds then went straight to sleep bless her! I feel sooooo lucky now!

Won't comment on the CC bit but just wanted to say that 4 months is one of the biggest growth spurt times - so this may be the thing that's changed her sleep in the last week.

we call them the pre-sleep grizzles too - in my view nothing wrong with that at all.

trust your instincts and within a matter of days the pre-sleep grizzles will be seconds rather than minutes i promise.

I think it's fine, tbh I have done this with DS2 since basically day one. I can tell when it's pre-sleep grizzling and when he needs attention -- he soon escalates to extreme crossness if he needs attending to!

She's sleeping don;t stress about it.

This subject (amonst many others as you will find) really divide mumsnetters.

With DD1 we did the whoel rocking to sleep thing and it was exhausting, in the ned Dh took her from me (whne I could no longer cope) into a different room where I couldn; here and let her cry. At first he carried onthe whole rocking thing but came o realise she was absolutely fine, she wasn;t hungry, thristy or had a dirty nappy - she jsut wanted a cuddle! Nothing wrong with that, exceot it was studip o'clock int eh morning and she needed to learn how to settle herself.

We also realsied that the poor little love had been cuddled and rocked to sleep, and trhen when she came into her lighter sleep pattern realsied she was somewhere different and not being cuddled - think I'd cry at that too!

With DD2 we of course cuddled her lots and gave her attention but at sleep time we put her in the cot awake and she learnt to settle herself very quickly, though there were tears at time but if she was ever distressed we of course would go to her.

Now I know many people who think I'm cruel for doing it this way but it worked for us and you must do what is right for you.

Letting your daughter cry for a few minutes will not damage her and is not cruel so do not feel guilty. The books can tell you some great things in theory but that are not there with you at 4am when you;ve had 1 hours sleep all night and both you and DH are grumpy and rowing from lack of sleep!

Enjoy the peace!

The key is that your LO is "crying down" - if you are going to do CIO (as this is) then "crying down" is critical - but you already know this. Your baby will be much better rested for just a few minutes crying - keep going - you have found a way that works for you (it worked for us too in DD's early weeks).

Thanks redrobin x

i think that if she's falling asleep after only ten or fifteen minutes, you've nothing to worry about. as you say, you know if she's crying down rather than up. go with the flow indeed and trust your instinct.

and welcome to mumsnet...you'll spend (far too) many happy hours here no doubt!