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Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler.

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Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler.

Sleep

I can't have another night like last night......

37 replies

Olipop · 10/10/2006 07:46

I'm at desperation point. My lo is 8 1/2 months old. He goes down to sleep in his cot around 7pm. Around 9.30 'the waking' begins. He wakes and cries, I feed him (bf) and put him down. If I'm lucky he'll sleep, if I'm not he'll cry and I pick him up and try to settle him. This cycle has been getting progressively worse with wakings every hour or so for the last couple of nights. Around 3.30 he hits crisis point where nothing will settle (but I can tell he wants to be asleep) and I end up going into the spare room. He'll then bash me around for 45 mins or so then fall asleep. He wakes here and there and I just feed him.
I don't know what to do. Please help..he used to be quite good at sleeping (never slept through though) but I can't carry on like this.
Thanks

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gigglinggoblin · 10/10/2006 08:01

could he be teething or unwell? i found calpol before bed helped with teething babies

noddyholder · 10/10/2006 08:06

I was like that with my ds up until 13 months!Eventually I gaev him medised to knock hoim out for 2 nights until I could get my head straightand then i did controlled crying Sorted within a week although not sure about how you do that if breast feeding

Olipop · 10/10/2006 08:13

He could be teething...and I confess I used medised for a couple of nights but it didn't stop him waking! I've given him teething gel in the night but guess I could use it a bit more.
I don't really think he needs the feeds in the night...he eats well in the day. I think I might have to cc him. what was it like noddy?

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CastsSpellsWitchySpells · 10/10/2006 08:41

Just doing cc with my 8 month old - nursery nurse confirmed that nourishment wise they don't need night feeds at this age. It's actually important for them and not just you to sleep right through as they need the continuous period of sleep for growth and brain development. The longer you continue to feed your ds to sleep the longer you are teaching him that that is how to go to sleep. I know that cc isn't for everyone, but if you're considering it then I would say go for it.

Olipop · 10/10/2006 08:58

thank you witchy. I think I'm going to have to do it tonight. I'm so knackered that I keep walking into things!

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noddyholder · 10/10/2006 09:01

Well ds is 12 now so it was a long time ago but I couldn't ignore your post because I really ermember those times when i was so exhausted i couldn't cope!We were in a 1 bed flat at the time and so we moved into the living room and left his cot in the bedroom.We put him down about 8 I think and went in every 10 mins or so said nothing and laid him back down The first night he screamed for hours and we had cracked it completely by the 3rd or 4th night BUT we could never move back into our bedroom after that and had to stay in the living room until we moved when he was two!Every time we tried to sleep in the bedroom he started again!So maybe he just wanted his own room

foundintranslation · 10/10/2006 09:06

Might a later bedtime help?

Olipop · 10/10/2006 09:11

Thanks noddy!
FIT - we tried to make him last out a bit later last night and he got to 7.30 but was so tired we couldn't keep him up any more.
We did cc for going to bed when he was about 61/2 months and it worked really well after a couple of days. I think I'm just scared of doing it in the night when everything seems so much worse.

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Lucy1977 · 10/10/2006 12:21

Hi Olipop

My DD is 8 months old and we started CC about a week ago. Our habits sounded very similar to yours where DD would wake constantly and often not resettle for a long time during the night and other times just need my boob to go back to sleep. Like you I often took her to the spare room and co-slept around 4am every morning just to get some sleep she dozed and fed until 7am.

My DD also had a dummy so about 10 days ago we took the dummy away and did the CC and it wasn't too bad ( I was dreading it). If you see the threads "Controlled Crying" and "good start with CC but bad night last night - advice please" you'll be able to get some great advice and read how me and others have been doing.

For us it has made a huge difference. DD goes to bed at 7pm and although I bf her just prior to putting her in the cot she is awake when she gets put down and usually sleeps until 5ish when I give her another feed then that's her until 8am.

I have done some CC during the night but this hasn't lasted more than 15 minutes (I go in at short intervals so she wasn't crying alone for 15 mins).

Good luck with whatever you decide, keep us updated on progress

Lucy

Tinker · 10/10/2006 12:27

Agree about own room. My 17 month old is still a nightmare sleeper but have had repsite when she has been able to sleep in her own room (on holiday). Did one night of not cc but my partner going in = lots of crying for an hour and a half but then she did fall asleep. I'm also still bf. Problems returned when we came home (she sleeps in our room)

fay68 · 10/10/2006 12:35

I read a recent study that CC was bad for future emotional development because a baby's brain is not yet programmed to calm down on its own and has to be helped/coaxed into calming down by cuddling/cooing etc.
could it be this is true?

Olipop · 10/10/2006 13:59

thanks lucy - i'll check those threads.
Don't know on the effects of controlled crying. Have just read a book called 'why love matters' which goes into some of the effects of neglect but I think that neglect and a bit of cc with constant reassurance are different.

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lulusmama · 10/10/2006 14:30

Hi Olipop,
Just wanted to say, before you try CC, I would rule out hunger - is he actually feeding at night or just suckling for comfort? Would you consider giving him formula at night just to be sure he's not hungry? CC won't work on a baby that's hungry, just sthg to be aware of.

Olipop · 10/10/2006 14:37

Hi lulusmama - I'm not sure. He used to take good feeds in the night but now they seem to be little comfort feeds here and there and sometimes he just wants to be held, not fed at all. I have tried the odd bottle or cup of formula in the past but he wouldn't take it and screamed blue murder.
I had a plan that tonight I'd cc him until he woke near 1am then feed him in the hope that he would have a good one that would last him til the morning rather than all these snacky comfort feeds. Or does that look like it would just confuse him?

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bakedpotatooooowoooh · 10/10/2006 14:56

How does he eat/feed in the day? If he fills his tank, make sure he has a good tea and a nice big final feed before bed. CC will be a lot harder if you suspect he's waking out of hunger -- and you can't go into this halfhearted, that'll make it worse for both of you.
Certainly sounds like a sleep association issue rather than a hunger one, to me.
I wouldn't keep him up later. Babies get tetchy and harder to settle when knackered imho.

lulusmama · 10/10/2006 15:09

I think that if you let him cry it out till 1 am and then go in and feed him you will be sending him mixed messages. They say with CC that you shouldn't pick him up otherwise that will confuse him.
What is his feeding schedule during the day? Does he have a nice big feed right before bed? Does he happily take the bottle during the day - just wondering if he refused the bottle at night b/c he just generally doesn't like the bottle...
When he wakes up the first time do you offer him a feed and he goes off again? B/c if he drinks well and then goes back to sleep then it was hunger. The subsequent wakings could be sleep associations... have you tried using a dummy for these?

sweetkitty · 10/10/2006 15:22

hi olipop my DD2 is 8 1/2 months and sounds exactly like your DS, spookily similar in fact. I personally do not agree with CC in a baby so young (I just could not do it sorry I'm not getting at anyone who has done this and it's worked). I've just started reading a book called "the no-cry sleep solution" as recommended on mumsnet. It's not a quite fix solution but more a gradual withdrawal of the boob/sleep association. It's very early days for us - I've not started the programme yet just logging our first few days to see where our problems lie. The author goes into loads of reasons as to why she and other experts believe CC is detrimental to young babies.

We have a support thread called no cry sleep soultion and you are more than welcome to come and join us on there. My DD2 can have one good night the night before last she slept from 8-5am straight then last night was up 6 times and it's shattering I know.

lulusmama · 10/10/2006 15:40

hi sweetkitty,
i also found CC heartbreaking - we tried it when DS was nearly 6 months (young i know!) and found it unbearable and gave up after 2 nights. He started sleeping through 12 hours on his own at 9 months and we haven't looked back. Having said that every situation and baby are different, and CC does work for a lot of people.
I don't know about detrimental effects - it certainly makes them VERY tired the next day, but beyond that he seemed ok. I just found it too heartbreaking, and found gradual withdrawal worked much better with my stubborn little monkey. I also think there's a difference between CC and what they call 'crying down' - I had no problems letting him whinge or cry a few minutes on his own getting to sleep - as long as I was sure he wasn't hungry.

Anyway, I'll be following your thread to see how it goes - plan on bf next child beyond 6 months and do NOT want to do CC. Hope it goes well for you!

lazycow · 10/10/2006 16:08

DS did this for so long I got really desperate. It wasn't the number of wake-ups so much as the amount of time it took to settle him and the fact that he would cry or play for hours at a time. Looking back I am convinced he was overtired. He got into a vicious cycle of not sleeping well at night and being really tired during the day but still not being able to sleep.

My personal way would be to put him to bed earlier if you can. I would get him to bed at 6pm or 6.30pm and see if he goes to sleep at that time (my ds was sometimes falling asleep for the night at 5.30pm he was so knackered), then if you can get some sleep in before he wakes. Also try and make sure he gets a reasonable nap each day -

Easier said than done I know and some days it won't work but if he can catch up on his sleep he may settle down a bit. Ds did though he did still wake for a feed 1 or 2 times but they were so easy after what he had been like the previous 3 months I was in seventh heaven. A couple of fairly quick feeds a night I can handle and ds did this until well over a year old but I just couldn't cope with constant wakings some of which laste 2 hours or more.

lulusmama · 10/10/2006 16:16

what's his daytime sleeping like olipop? its true an overtired baby does not sleep well at night.

Olipop · 10/10/2006 17:45

Hi - thanks everyone...right...he eats quite well in the day..a whole weetabix and cows milk and fruit for breakfast, a medium bf when he wakes from his morning nap, a good bowl of something like lamb casserole or chicken stew for lunch followed by a yoghurt or fruit with a bit of finger food thrown in, usually another med bf after his lunchtime nap and then the same as lunch for tea. He doesn't often want much of a milk feed before bed but sometimes has a medium one.
He has a dummy to go to bed and then I put it in everytime he wakes up (sometimes he finds it on his own).
As regards daytime naps he is pretty good - usually goes down around 8-9am for about 45 mins and then again after lunch for anything from 45 mins to 2 hrs at a stretch. He is good at settling himself (sometimes whinges a bit but not too bad) and this morning he woke after 30 mins and I left him and he resettled.

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Olipop · 10/10/2006 19:09

well he's down and dinner is on - resolve is strong. I'm going to try cc tonight (although I think I will feed him around 1am).

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makemineadouble · 10/10/2006 19:53

Olipop been following this thread with interest hope things settle down for you my advice at this point would be feed him up before bedtime anything he'll take warm weetabix usually does it and its very filling?! its hard to stay awake with full tum! I know this

lulusmama · 10/10/2006 20:07

good luck olipop. Seems like he sleeps well and eats really well - well done! Also that he can resettle himself during daytime naps is a good sign - perhaps it won't take you long to crack it! The only thing I can think of wrt hunger is maybe the huge tea is putting him off his bedtime bf - maybe try dropping the yoghurt at teatime. I'm sure you'll sort it soon. Let us know how it goes tonight.

Olipop · 10/10/2006 20:44

He has just had his first wake up (..they are getting earlier and earlier). I left him for 5 mins and then dummied him and sh'd him. I had to go back twice more but he is now asleep (upside down in the cot but asleep!). One down - who knows how many to go.

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