Controlled crying at 4 months old.

[Writerwannabe83]

Bedtimes have become a nightmare for me - DS just refuses to sleep.

Last night it took 4 hours for him go fall asleep once we had started his bedtime routine. That's a long 4 hours of grizzling, crying and screaming.

He will cry and cry in his Crib but the minute I pick him up, he stops. He looks at me, gives me a huge smile and a lovely laugh and starts flailing his arms and legs everywhere like he wants to play.

I calm him down and put him back in his crib and the crying starts again.

It goes on and on and on and on. He cries, I pick him up, he laughs/smiles, I put him back down, he cries again, I pick him up again, he laugh/smiles - you get the picture.

I offer feeds and change his nappy in between all these pick ups and put downs to ensure there's no reason for his screaming but absolutely nothing makes any difference.

Me and DH are nearly at breaking point - we just can't maintain this anymore.

Normally the pattern goes in for 2.5 hours but last nights record 4 hours just bought it home how insane it is.

Once he does go to sleep (usually from exhaustion) he sleeps very well. His first stretch will be 5-6 hours, then he has a feed, then sleeps again for another 3 hours. It's just getting him to sleep is the problem.

I spoke to a HV today who suggested we try controlled crying. She said to carry out his bedtime routine, pop him in his crib, turn the lights down and then for me to go and sit out on the landing. She advised that once DS starts crying to leave him for a minute before going back in, and I'm not to pick him up but just pat him for reassurance and then leave again. She told me to just keep doing this and prepare myself for having to go in and out about 50 times. She said it can be hard emotionally but after a week there should be a huge improvement in getting DS to sleep.

I don't know how I feel about it, but I know I can't spend 4 hours every night just picking him up and putting him down.

Has anyone else ever done it this early?

And if not, how did you deal with problems as bad as this?

[RoganJosh]

Sorry if it's obvious, but what time is his bedtime? What happens if you put him to bed two hours later?

At four months old I'd still be rocking/feeding to sleep I think, if it makes life happier for everyone.

[Koothrapanties]

Four months is far far too young for cc imo. There is a four month sleep regression, look it up. It will pass.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

It is on the early side. They need to know and understand that you're there, even when they can't see you. This is a skill that babies obtain between 4 and 6 months which is why the guidance only recommends this for 6 months plus.

It may also not be the right technique for your scenario. The reasoning behind controlled crying is that your baby doesn't know how to fall asleep on their own due to a negative sleep association such as feeding to sleep, rocking to sleep etc. You are therefore teaching them to fall asleep by doing as your HV explained.

Can I ask a few questions?

How does your LO fall asleep when they finally conk out?
What's your routine like in the day, ie number of naps, awake time length, frequency of feeds?

[Fairylea]

When is his last nap before you try to put him down for his big sleep?

Have you tried a dummy?

Personally I think 4 months is far too little to do any sort of controlled crying (but then I don't agree with it at all anyway to be fair).

I think at this stage it is about establishing day and night and if they need rocking to sleep then it's very much just a stage. You say he's only waking one during the night - that is amazing for that age really!

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Just to add, I am 'for' CC if it seems like it will be the path of less tears overall. I just don't think it's the cure all that some HCP proclaim it to be.

[Writerwannabe83]

We typically start his bedtime routine at 8pm and then it's usually 11pm before he actually falls asleep. In fact one night last week it was 00.15

Last night I started his routine earlier because he looked so, so tired! was practically falling asleep on my lap in the living room. I had him bathed by 18.45 and then took him upstairs to feed him. He was so drowsy that he fell asleep whilst feeding so I went to put him in his Crib, he instantly woke up and then it was another 4 hours before he eventually went to sleep.

[insancerre]

Are you sire he is actually tired when you are putting him down for sleep
Maybe tet ams keep him up a bit longer then try

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Hmmm, so has he just started to get quite excited by the world around him? Having to feed in a boring environment etc?

[scandichick]

As faras I'm aware babies don't have the cognitive capacity required for CC before six months, so in my opinion it's bad advice from your HV...

There is a sleep regression at four months, so it could get better very soon on it's own - maybe have a look at the support thread here in the Sleep forum could give you more ideas?

White noise, shush-pat, rock/feed to sleep and then putting him down could all be worth an attempt!

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

My favourite handy sleep chart says an awake time of 1.5 hours ish at this age with 3-4 naps per day, depending on nap length. So depending on what time you get up for the day your routine might look something like;

7am AWAKE
8.30am Nap
9.15am Awake
10.45am Nap
11.30am Awake
1pm Nap
2.30pm Awake
3.15pm Nap
4.45pm Awake
6 pm Bedtime routine started
All tucked up by 6.30-45

I had a cat napper at that age though.

If he was overtired then getting him to sleep was a lot more difficult.

Also try to not feed to sleep, if at all possible as it's a healthy sleep habit but I understand that a lot of younger babies do this. I followed EASY as you can probably tell!

[Writerwannabe83]

thereslots and fairylea - I have got another thread on the go about his horrendous, rarely occurring, naps. I'm sure the issues with his daytime naps are effecting his night time sleep but I just don't know how to address them.

He had a dummy between weeks 6-10ish but then refused it. I'm seriously tempted to buy another one though and try again.

With his current bedtime regime I have never left him alone once I initially put him in his crib - I sit on my bed and he can see I'm there all the time. The HV said that my constant presence may also be contributing to him not wanting to sleep at night as he can hear me and DH whispering to each other, he can see we are both in the room with him and so he wants our attention and wants to play - hence why he starts smiling and laughing whenever we pick him up.

[Zara8]

Sounds like 4 month sleep regression. Your baby is way too young for CC.

At this age you may need to do rocking, shhhh head patting etc.

I suggest keeping room dark, not saying anything to him other than shhhh/gentle soothing noises, keeping everything quiet. Pat his head, gently rub his body, if he's really crying pick him up.

Teaching them to self settle can be a long and hard road but it pays off huge dividends. My DS has always been a pretty good sleeper but some nights I would go in over 40 times to his room to resettle (I counted!). It never lasted more than a few weeks like that. Crap sleep often associated with developmental phases.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Link for handy chart and website! www.mybabysleepguide.com/2013/02/average-sleep-charts-by-age.html

[Zara8]

I do think that you being in the room is not helping. How does he know it's sleep time if you and DH are whispering. Put him down, with shhh and pats, walk out of the room or round the corner where he can't see you. If he is upset go back and comfort him, but then leave again. Yes this might mean standing outside his door for quite a while...!

With time you will learn whether the cry is actual upset or if it settles within 5-10 seconds, or is going to sleep grizzling/whining (ie not helped by being picked up).

[OrangeMochaFrappucino]

My 15wo doesn't go to bed til tennish, I seem to remember similar with my first baby as well. He will have a sleep early evening but then wake up for a couple of hours. We don't have a bedtime routine though, fairly haphazard with baths and he just stays in the living room with us snoozing in his bouncer or sitting up on our laps through the evening.

Four months is a classic time for their sleep to go haywire. It does pass. I would want to try something like The No-Cry Sleep Solution before controlled crying.

[Zara8]

Or if you don't want to leave the room, lie on the floor/hide with your phone to MN on until he goes to sleep

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

My LO was very distracted if we tried to be with him when he was trying to fall asleep. I kind of discovered accidentally one evening when I was losing patience with him quickly that if I left him on his own for 5 minutes he would cry for a couple of minutes and I could then go in, a quick shh-pat and he would go to sleep. He did seem to need 5 minutes to let off steam though.

Not really sure what that was all about but we got used to it. There was a lot more tears if I tried other ways of getting him to sleep.

Some kids just want a very sterile sleep environment - not loads of cuddles or teddies like we think.

Maybe worth a try but I understand that you might not want to give him any crying time.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Four months is very young for CC I'd wait until at least 6 months.

Does he "startle" himself awake in the cot?

Dd wouldn't go to sleep unless it was on her tummy.

Maybe sleep with a muslin and then give it to your baby so he can smell you

[TarkaTheOtter]

Have you considered bringing him back downstairs and just enjoying your evening? My 6 month old is a night owl and spends most of the evening drowsing in his bouncy chair or gurgling happily at us. He normally goes to sleep around 9/10ish then sleeps through (until his sister wakes us all up in the morning). With dd we spent months trying to get her to settle in her cot at 7pm. It just ended up ruining our evenings.

[CoteDAzur]

We did CC when DD was 4 months, as recommended by her paediatrician. We cut out night feeds and DH went to her & did his best to get her back to sleep through whatever means. She slept through on the third night and has been sleeping through like a log every night since then, bar the occasional illness (now almost 9). We did the same with DS at 5 months. He is and has been since then another phenomenally great sleeper - goes to bed with a smile, sleeps like a log all night, every night.

As the pediatrician explained, a normal 4month-old doesn't physically need to feed through the night for sustenance. He wakes because of the habit of feeding at 2 AM and 4 AM, for example. You stop night feeds, he drinks more in the day to compensate, and soon forgets the night as a meal time.

I found sleep training a 4-month-old much easier than others' experiences with older babies & children. It's a different ball game once they can get up, bang their heads against the wall, throw themselves over the cot railing etc. Also, once teething starts, you can never know if they are waking up in the night because of the pain.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Cote I agree that if you are going to do sleep training it is dramatically faster and easier when they are younger babies but at 4 months, they can be too young to 'get' it.

They are extremely flexible and new 'good' habits are easily formed.

[MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom]

My 15wo doesn't go to bed until about 11. She's awake a lot during the day, has a few regular naps, but sleeps through 11-7. She spends most of her evening in her bouncy chair or on her mat.

I don't understand the rush to get them into a routine where they're asleep by half 6, if it doesn't work for your baby then all you'll do is beat yourself up.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

I found sleep training a 4-month-old much easier than others' experiences with older babies & children. It's a different ball game once they can get up, bang their heads against the wall, throw themselves over the cot railing etc. Also, once teething starts, you can never know if they are waking up in the night because of the pain

That's a very interesting point actually.

I think there does come a point a lot of the time where you have to weigh up the stress etc caused by CC against the health/welfare of the other family members (especially with some jobs) and the effects to the baby of not sleeping. Afterall sleep is important, bodies need to rest and repair and develope and alot of that happens at night when you sleep.

[Writerwannabe83]

So many helpful replies - thank you. I just can't keep up

When DS does wake up it is typically 4-5am and he has a really long feed. Prior to the heat wave we seem to be having he would usually sleep until about 6-7am so I genuinely do think he needs the milk he is having early morning. Sometimes he feeds off both breasts.

We think he may be having some teething pains so we have given him some Calpol but it has absolutely no effect. We have now got some bonjella teething gel though so we will try that tonight.

I have just done a quick google search on CC and it does say it's more appropriate for older babies and for ones who wake frequently through the night - which isn't the problem we have.

tarka - that's an interesting point you make about instead of trying to force sleep just have him downstairs and take him up to bed much later. I honesty can't remember the last time he was asleep before 22.00 pm so why the hell am I shutting myself away upstairs for 2-3 hours minimum every night listening to him cry and grizzle? It makes no sense...

[CoteDAzur]

What do you mean re "too young to get it" in the context of stopping night feeds?

You stop night feeds, their metabolism adjusts, and they stop waking up in the night. It's not geometry. There isn't anything to 'get'.