Wanted: boobs back and baby to sleeping though. Am I asking for too much?

[StrawberryLaces]

Hi my first message but getting desperate for help. Please anyone with any advice that has worked for them.
My baby now 16 months old and still breast-feeding at night which is fine except she is waking almost every hour for a comfort feed.
She used to go down at 7.30pm semi-awake and sleep through til about 5.30am which was bearable. I cut out day time breastfeeds in an attempt to stop completely, then I went back to work and then she was ill for about a month on and off. I put her in our bed through worry and guilt, but did manage to get her back in her cot. Decided to stop morning breastfeed and she started waking in the night for a feed about twice. Two months later and she's waking up to six times a night and completely howls the place down when she wakes.
How do you do controlled crying? - I am feeling ruthless (as she is our second child, first one didn't sleep through in his own bed until about 4 months ago when he was 6 and a half YEARS old. So things are marginally better this time, but don't want to go down that slippery slope).
Help!

[moondog]

SL,no expert,but was ruthless.

After about 10 months,I just let them cry,figuring they didn't need a breastfeed.

I never let them cry for more than about 20 mins thoguh.If it carried on that long,got them up for a quick cuddlethen put them back.

It worked,althoguh I don't think it could be defined as CC.

[StrawberryLaces]

thanx moondog - when u give them quick cuddle and then put them down, if they start screaming immediately did u let them cry another 20 mins? (The Hatster is currently sleeping on my lap whilst I type one fingered)

[moondog]

Um..yes

[lillabean]

strawberry,

My SIL gave us a tip: she stopped feeding at night, but replaced it with a drink of water instead for a few nights (three I think). Babs started to lose interest, and by the time she just stopped the night feeds all together her 14 mo. old didn't seemed that bothered.

We did similar thing, and it worked, but did it at around 6/7mo. I imagine it is a whole different ball game with a 16 month old.

You must be so exhausted poor you! Don't feel guilty, you'll have more energy to give them in the long run if you take the tough road and get them to settle so you can get some sleep!

[Distracted]

bump

I know strawberry laces could do with as much advice as poss. can anyone remember exactly how controlled crying works - don't you go in after 1 minute, then 2 mins, then 5 mins etc? Having stayed with Strawberry last weekend I can say that howling the place down is an understatement. She's a real cutie and you wouldn't believe it when you see her, but she has a voice like a foghorn and even though they live in a detached house, she's in danger of waking up the neighbours . So any techniques that don't involve leaving her to cry for toooo long at a time might be useful (Strawberry I hope that didn't sound insulting )

[fullofwhoe]

It's a huge problem... lack of sleep... everyone offers help but I took a bit from everyone to find our way. Our daughter slept with us until she was 1... breastfeeding in the night upto 6 times... aghhh... couldn't cope..had enough... decided to cut out every other feed so if whe woke I feed once then the next time she woke I would cuddle.. she moaned and groaned for about 20 mins at the begining then it went down to 5 mins and then to just going back off... when I got to that stage I cut out the middle feed and hugged her back to sleep and kept a feed just before bed and when she woke.... then after a short period of that being ok.. I cut out the morning feed and just left the night before bed feed. She would still wake but it was easier and calmer to get her back off... then we moved her into her own bed just before she was 18 months old... we got an average of 4 hours in her bed the rest in ours. this continued until her 2nd birthday... her sleep then got longer in her bed and she was taking the michael by trying to get in with us.. so a clamp down and a feed before bed and a huge hug with a story and sat waiting for her to go asleep with a blackmail bit.. if you don't come to mummy and daddies bed I will do something special with you tomorrow... into if you don't come to mummies and daddies bed all week we will take you somewhere special at the weekend... then getting the blackmail into longer periods of time.. terrible parents arn't we !!.. it worked though and then by her third birthday no breastfeeding and a strict you have your bed and you stay there now... we finally got our full night of not one disturbance the day after her third birthday and we are not looking back.. A combination of controlled crying with anything for an easy life and knowing the rewards later far outweigh the horrible transition and providing you don't waiver or show guilty feelings you will be successful...eventually what ever you try. best of luck !!

[StrawberryLaces]

Thanx for ideas - we actually tried cold turkey last night - hubbie had ear plugs in, She screamed a full 40 mins before I went in to find she had bitten her lip and her mouth was bleeding (felt like a real bad Mamma). Cuddled her ended up feeding her - still screaming place down, got her fennel tea - ended up cuddling her for 2 hours and everytime I took her near cot she turned into a foghorn (yes, Distracted is right I thought maybe I was imagining she was the loudest baby in the World but it's been officially verified and we're applying to the Genuis book of records as I write).
In the end I just got really fed up, put her in her cot screeching (3am) and so tired I fell asleep. I woke up at 7am and couldn't hear anything so thought she had died!! She woke at 8am and was happily playing in her cot - I don't understand but will hire her out as ultimate weapon of torture.
So any advice on what to do tonight? Still feeling fairly ruthless but still not entirely sure about controlled crying - anyone who knows the exact method - I know it's a pain to type it out or any links would be appreciated. Cheers!

[Lio]

this is what we did:

crying starts. set kitchen timer for 1 min. go in to child's room. stroke child's head or pat tummy or whatever, saying softly oh dear, poor you, time to sleep etc, then leave room. set timer for 2 mins. back into room, same thing. timer for 4 mins, back in for same again. then we made it up depending on how strong we were feeling, 6 mins, 8 mins, don't think we could ever stomach more than 10 mins.

the rules we had were: no picking up, never staying in the room more than about 30 secs, only talk softly (eventually ds got the message to be quiet if he wanted to hear).

from memory it took less than a week. was horrible, cried loads, but so so worth it in the long run.

[Lio]

oh and we pre-warned the neighbours.

[Piffle]

My ds would do this too, he was almost off the breast day time at 16 mths but was still feeding up to 5 x at night
I just decided one night enough was enough and never offered the breast, juts picked him up, offered water and put him abck again, left him for 2 minutes, then repeated it, I kept my voice quite firm and flat, not soothing. He thens tarted sleeping better as he had nothing decent to wake up for

[StrawberryLaces]

Think I'll try the timer and no picking up so can't have feed either. Its good to hear what boundaries to use, cause then its easier to stick to them. After last night things can't get worse, and I didn't warn the neighbours - oh dear! Heartening to hear it only took a week I think I can do it if there's a light at the end. Because our 1st was so bad at sleeping I felt things were better with this one, but the bad habits were creeping in. I know from experience it gets harder the older they get but becasue so sleep deprived cant think what to do. Will post how it goes....

[moondog]

Souinds grim SL,but hey,seems like you have made a good start!

Let us know how you get on.
It will be useful to others in simialr situations.

[Lio]

I look forward to seeing how it goes (dd has finished feeding so I get to type with two hands now!). You are your dh will need to be really supportive of each other, it's a horrible thing to go through even if you are feeling ruthless. But to cheer you up, but guesstimate of one week is, if anything, pessimistic and I'm pretty sure it was quicker than that. GOOD LUCK!

[StrawberryLaces]

Oh distracted don't worry not insulted I remember what your 1st was like once she started to talk!! Very sweet but very annoying!! We both put it down to a girl boy thing - boys are easier as toddlers not so tantrummy and moody as girls but boys are harder babies - wanting to feed all the time and on the go - am I creating a stereotype? what do others think who have had one of each?

[StrawberryLaces]

thanx 4 support will have a go and let u know - (God sleep deprivation making me use rythmes now -help!)

[StrawberryLaces]

Hurrah!
She slept through the night!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put her down at 7.30 and said time to go to bed. She started crying so I went down stairs to put kettle on and planned to go straight up (2 mins controlled crying) but when I went back upstairs she had stopped! Steeled myself for a night of controlled crying but she didn't wake until twenty to six. I was so full of milk by then after the last few weeks of constant night feeding, I gave her a feed, put her back in her cot and she cried for 3 seconds then went back to sleep until 8am. I'm still reeling from the shock of having had seven and a half hours of uninterrupted sleep (first time in 6 years!)I know it may just be a one off but I am definitely going to keep to the routine:
Put her down at 7.30pm - do controlled crying until she sleeps (going in after 5 mins just rubbing her back and going back out again. I had forgotten how it feels to have a good night's sleep and spring out of bed in the morning. Don't dispair anyone out there whose child won't sleep. If you can be ruthless and rigid, controlled crying did seem to work remarkably quickly with my 16 month. Saying that I know it's only been one night, and some kids really do have sleep problems and seem immune to any kind of controlled crying, (my first born really was so sensitive that it was impossible to get him to sleep alone and it took 6 years to get him in his own bed.) But for a child that has slept reasonably well on the whole and then suddenly gets into bad habits, controlled crying seemed to work. Just having a system of what to do really seemed to have given me the confidence to continue.

[moondog]

Brilliant!
God yes,soooo agree.Good night'ssleep isessential.
How the hellhave you managed so long?? I would have gone barking.

[StrawberryLaces]

Most of my friends and colleagues now believe I have always been ditsy because it's been so long now. In fact at work they have coined a new phrase "helenism" for when someone says something completely unrelated to the conversation and nonsensical. I only found out when someone who didn't know it was to do with me laughed at my comment in the lunchroom and said "wot a helenism" when I looked blankly at them my other "friends" explained the origins rather shamefacedly. They said it really was a term of endearment, yeah right.

[Tinker]

Oh, good news! Am in similar situation with my 15 month old. A week in Scotland cured(temporarily) the problem. Got partner to go in to her on first night when woke up crying - cried for 1/1.5 hours (he was with her). Then stopped. Then slept through for every other night of the hols . Back to normalish now back at home but know she can do it which gives me enormous hope!

[StrawberryLaces]

Well done Tink if you find she goes back to normal after hols try putting her in her travel cot, turning on some running water and putting a handful of moskitos in the room so she thinks she's still in Scotland.

[Lio]

Hey that's great Strawb! I'll be tuning in again for tomorrow's exciting instalment.

[moondog]

How did it go last night SL?

[StrawberryLaces]

Hi had to go to work yesterday so that interrupted the most important part of my day - logging onto mumsnet!
Weds night:
I put the foghorn down at 7.30 she gave out one blast then fell asleep. She let rip again at 10 due to DH flushing loo and coughing very loudly, I ignored her and she went back to sleep in 2 mins. She woke at 2.30am and was screaming and I suddenly remembered I was in work the next day and had run out of breastpads so I fed her to avoid dripping milk in work - not a sackable offence but high up there on the social outcast list.
She then fell asleep until 7am when we had to get up anyway.
Last night, I once again put her down awake at 7.30 she hardly even bothered to use the foghorn she has installed in her by aliens (my only explanation to date). She tried to wake me at 2.30 but I'd been playing tag rugby as part of a teambuilding exercise at work and I couldn't move my legs to get out of bed. She fell back to sleep and woke at 4.50. I did go in then and feed her and then she slept til 7.30 and played in her cot with her toys - unbelievable!
So although she isn't going right through and I am going in maximum once it is such an improvement. I think making her go to bed awake is the main lever.
How are all of you doing?

[Distracted]

That's fantastic, well done! Hope it's continuing? Haven't had a chance to log in to mumsnet until now to find out how you're doing. Bet you're feeling loads better for all that extra sleep!