PU/PD advice needed

[bobblehead]

Having realised I am a total wimp who cannot take cc (and in fact am making things far worse by even trying) I have decided to try pu/pd with dd (9 mnoths). She is a terrible sleeper for both naps and nighttime, for which I'm mainly blaming separation anxiety as all the crying when we put her down is relatively new.

I just spent 45mins getting her down for a nap doing this and just want to check I have it right,so

1. When she starts crying hard, to I still just pick up and put straight down, or do I comfort until she calms? (I went for this option but sometimes it was taking a good few minutes to calm).
   
   
2. Is a huge amount of crying normal?
   
   
3. Thought I'd cracked it after 15mins when she was lying peacefully looking like she was drifting. After 5 mins of this she stood up and the hysterics started. Should I have left the room while she was peaceful or do you wait until they are asleep?
   
   
4. Do I hover over the crib or sit further away? And do I avoild eye contact etc?
   
   Sorry, I'm sure I have more Q's but can't think right now.
   Please anyone tell me of your experience with this and how long it took to work!
   Thanks.

[bobblehead]

Sorry another question! If she wakes too soon from her nap and is still tired (which invariably she will) do I need to go through the whole horrendous process again or do I just cut my losses and try again next time?

[bundle]

I don't know about the intricacies of this method, but commonsense tells me that being in the room until she's actually asleep will teach her only to go to sleep when you're there. do you want her to do that?

[bobblehead]

just going to sleep at all would be good

[BonyM]

We did this with dd2 about a week ago when she regressed from being a baby who would go to sleep without a murmur, to a clinging vine who would start to cry as soon as she realised she was being put in her cot.

I found that the most effective method was to pick up and put straight down even if crying hard, shushing and patting to calm her in the cot. If she became really hysterical I would sometimes give in and cuddle her for a bit to calm her first (although I know that goes against the "rules"). I would also stay in the room until she was asleep, as if I tried to leave before she would just jolt into full conciousness again and we'd be back to square one. I (or dh) would sit next to the cot.

After a couple of nights she would still start to cry when going into the cot but would quiet just by me going "shh, shhhh" and I could walk out of the room and stand outside the door "ssh-ing" until she was calm.

Now she is fine - although will sometimes make a protest cry when first going into the cot (this stops within a minute) and for the last 3 nights she has slept through until 6.30am (earliest) to 8.30am (latest) after going down at 6.30pm.

Stick at - it may take a week or so but it should get easier each night.

[BonyM]

Oh - re bundle's point - I did worry about this myself but I think the whole point of PU/PD is to give the baby confidence to go to sleep knowing it's not been abandoned, and if you start off by staying in the room it helps build that confidence. You then withdraw gradually.

[bundle]

i found i got nowhere with getting dd2 to fall asleep (and stay asleep) when i only left her once she was asleep. a lot of the help i got was from nursery, where they pat the children on their tummies/backs to help them sleep..i stuck to a routine at home where the room was dark, she was warm, milked-up, and knew she was safe because she had familiar toys/sleeping bag and even now (she's nearly 3) we use the same words every night before she drops off (see you in the morning, sweet dreams, etc). oh and both my girls started using a dummy (only at night time) around this time, which helped a bit.

[bobblehead]

Thanks for replies. Well dd slept for 45 mins (a good/average nap) but still looked shattered when she woke, so I fed her and she started dozing off. Soon as I put her in cot it started all over so after 5 mins decided just to get her up as otherwise the whole day would be spent in tears. She is now playing happily herself. Hope I haven't undone anything I did do!

How old is your dd BonyM? How long did she cry for on average each time? Did you notice a difference within a few days? Its so hard I feel like giging up before I start

[BonyM]

bobblehead - my dd is 11 months. At first she cried on and off for about 30-40minutes but this decreased each time. The baby whisperer says that if you go in and tell yourself that it is going to take 20mins then it is more likely to succeed -if you try to go go too soon then you end up spending longer as you have to start from scratch again (check out her website - it has a download document about this which I found very useful).

[bobblehead]

Have looked at website but can't find download document- how do I get to it?

[BonyM]

Here is the link to the page you want Tracy's Sleep interview

[bobblehead]

Thanks

[Baja]

we used pu/pd with our ds around 8months, and it worked a treat, took a while to take effect, and we also realised that being such a busy boy he needed a good 20mins windown before any sleep. Dh and i decided we'd not do pu/pd for day times because we didn't have the strength, and found that the winding down before the nap sorted the daytime nap out well.
We also felt is was weird to be in the room with ds, but paradoxical approaches often work.
our method was to go into him when he cried, soote with our voice by side of his cot, if he still cried then scoop him up in our arms, like a fork lift truck manoever, and the moment he stopped put him back down, all the time telling him what we were doing ('i'm going to pick you up now i know you're upset, when you're calm i'll put you back into your lovely warm cot') and kept doing that relentlessly.
When he stood, we did't pick him up we just laid him back down repeatedly saying the same stuff,'i'm going to lay you down again' if he was hysterical we'd pick him up and when he was calm put him straight back down.
once he was calm and going to sleep we'd keep our hand on him for 5-10mins and stay in the room with him for a good 20mins to make sure he'd gone to sleep. One thing that pu/pd does i think is knacker them, but that means the falli nto sleep harder and jerk as they're about to fall into their deep sleep, and this can wake them, if they can feel your hand or see you they don't wake up again and the go to sleep restfully.
Over time when you're only having to go in and put him back down you can take your hand away and use your presence and cut back the time you're in the room till eventually either you just go in put him back down say night and leave, or your voice from the door does it all.
we got to that point then he got very ill a 11months, and since then we've been all over the place as parents and at 18.5months we're in sleep hell again.
This time round i'm so blimmin tired and fed up i'm thinking of going to millpond to get their advice, i've heard they're great at solving sleep problems.
good luck. i wish we'd stuck to our guns because we had him sleeping through and even if he woke it was a 5min up there, put down, hover by the door and out. Now we're sleeping on his floor, it's grim.