GCSEs and extra costs involved for certain subjects.... How can this be fair on low income families

[teamcullen]

Ive just realised that come September I am going to have to pay costs to make sure DD can complete her chosen elective subjects.

She has choosen Music, which I will have to pay £75 per term for piano lessons and Drama, which includes at least 4 visits to the theatre each year.

So my estimation is £450 in music tuition and £200 in theatre visits over two years.

Other subjects included
History £260 trip to France/belgium
Geography ££ Field trips

The school did say that they would subsidise any child with the cost of music lessons if their parents could not afford it.

But it doesnt seem fair that children should have to worry if their parents can afford the aditional costs involved when choosing what subjects they wish to take.

[roisin]

If it's essential to the course, they're not allowed to charge for it. So if they have to go on the Geography field trip, ie they can't write their coursework otherwise, then it should be free.

My school has a catchment area with high levels of deprivation, so we simply wouldn't get away with this sort of thing. Students do music GCSE without having had private instrumental tuition, and GCSE drama students do not go on lots of expensive theatre trips.

[wastwinsetandpearls]

Agree with roisin, if it is essential they cannot charge.

The school will subidise. I have worked in schools where teachers have actually paid for kids to go on things as we wanted to provide an activity and knew that a large number of the kids could not afford it.

[nickschick]

I couldnt do a home economics food technology GCSE because my tightfisted scroat stepfather wouldnt pay for the ingredients each week- I also had to be 'ill' when field trips were due .

[webwiz]

My DCs school pays for instrumental lessons for everyone taking music GCSE. If your child already had instrumental lessons then the school suggested something that complemented the existing instrument.

Both DDs also had trips abroad but these weren't essential for their course and the school pointed out that they were nice things to do but certainly not essential. DD1 went to Sorrento to look at Mount Vesuvius for their geography volcano study (I would have liked to have done that one!) and DD2 went to Berlin on a history trip.

I think when DD1 went on her geography field trip for A level it was subsidised because it was important for her course.

[Missus84]

You don't have to do these field trips though - I did history GCSE and A Level and never went on any expensive trips.

[teamcullen]

I think with the field trips in history and geography, you could still manage to do the course without going on the trips. But the teachers are using these trips as a selling point to their subject.

My DD asked us if she would be able to take history because she knew that an expensive field trip was being offered. Im sure other kids will have asked their parents the same question and maybe picked subjects which dont have extra curricular costs applied.

The music teacher has told us that she will have to have extra music tuition in order to do GCSE Music, but as this is compulsary, the school will pay or subsidise any child who cant afford it.

However, I still feel that children from low income families are missing out as schools are tring to enhance learning by offering extra curricular trips with expensive price tags.

Roisin Our school also has high levels of deprivation but still it offers these trips and has these expectations for music and drama students. I know that my neice's have had similar costs to pay during their GCSEs and A levels in a different but similar school.

On the other hand, every child has been given a laptop or netbook paid for from the school budget to ensure they all have access to a computer at home and in school.

[GypsyMoth]

and the revision guides you HAVE to have

dd went to belgium,france,germany an poland last year....aushwicz!! was half price cos we're low income,they say not essential,but wouldnt want her to find out the hard way that it is essential!

[BigWoo]

It might be worth asking if the school governors have set aside funds to helped poorer students meet the costs of school trips or expensive exam subjects.

[seimum]

At my DS school part of the money raised by the PTA goes to a fund to help with trips etc for those who would otherwise find it difficult

[calamari]

So it kind of sums up to £ 1000 over two years. If you're onlow income, why can't she take a little week-end job and help with it? After all, those were HER choices, she could have chosen "cheaper" subjects.
And it's a fact of life that not all people n afford everything. Life is life. She'll just learn that she'll have to do something if she wants something. Not such a bad lesson.

[scaryteacher]

The history trip is not necessary for the GCSE; it just brings home the enormity of the deaths and gives more of a feel for life in the trenches.

Geography field work can take place on day trips which will be the cost of the coach, if there are geographical features around. We took them down to the coast where there was a river that had meandered and made an oxbow lake; they could measure the water flow; and there were arches and stacks on the coast line and you could walk up the cliffs and look at them.

As for revision guides, my department paid for them and we signed them out to the students on the proviso that if they were lost, they paid for new ones.

[teamcullen]

What are you saying calamari? My DD needs to know her place and have no aspirations.

She cant get a job. She is 13. And no! She wont get a paper round on an estate where 16 year olds are flying round on motor bikes selling drugs!

Luckily she has some savings which she can use towards her expensis, and grandparents who would help also.

DD has learnt to play the piano by ear and her teachers say she has a real musical talent. Would you tell your DC that she cant take a subject which they clearly excel in. Im not talking about an after school club Im talking about education, something that is free and every child's right.

I was more worried about the kids who have got no chance of paying and therefore have to take options which dont help with their career paths.

[coldtits]

I did music GCSE 13 years ago, and got a B with no extra tuition. She just needs to practice. There's more to it than mechanical ability (which comes with practice), and the theory she should already have a grounding in before she even starts the course or she simply will not keep up, full stop,. Music lessons won't help, she has to be pretty good already

[coldtits]

If she HAS to have extra tuition, the music teacher is lazy and incompetent. If he/she was doing their job properly, it wouldn't be needed, and if your daughter can't already play an instrument and read music, 2 year's tuition will not get her to the standard she needs to be at to pass

Calamari, you cannot get a part time job at 13, what century are you living in?

[teamcullen]

Coldtits, with regard to my DD, the only formal teaching she has had, has been what she has been taught in her timetabled music lesson at school. She picks it up quicker than most of the class in both theory and practice. The school only takes children for GCSE music that they feel can cope with the course.

She said, with regard to my DD, extra tuition would allow DD to improve in the areas specific to her. ie, improving her reading skills and timing.

I dont think the teacher is incompetant or lazy. This is an inner city school where many children have never picked up a musical instrument before the age of 11.

[coldtits]

teamcullen, what does she play? Joining a junior band or orchestra would improve her reading and timing much much better than lessons, and the 'fees' are usually nominal (£5 subs to rent the practice room!)

Sorry I snarled about the teacher, I have a 'thing' about GCSEs only being available to those children whose parents who can essentially put them through it.

[EvilTwins]

coldtits that was a bit harsh. Do you think the GCSE Music teacher should be able to teach EVERY instrument to Grade 5/6 level? Get off your high horse. The OP isn't talking about a maths teacher insisting that children must have extra tuition.

OP, I used to teach Drama in an inner city London comp, and we were able to take students on trips for nothing - there's a charity called The Mousetrap Foundation that does school trip theatre tickets (all West End and fringe theatres) for £5 - all your DD's teacher has to do is join (also free). Might be worth your while mentioning it to the teacher if you are able - not all Drama teachers know about it. You don't have to be London based to use it - I also used it whilst working in Warwickshire. Also TfL do school trip transport for free. Where I teach now, one of our local(ish) theatres, which is on the Number 1 tour circuit, offers free transport to schools within the county - they will send a bus to pick you up.
Obviously I don't know where you live, but there are ways round it, and most schools will go out of their way to find out how they can do this. Also, as other posters have said, if the trip is compulsory, schools cannot charge (though some do ask for a "voluntary contribution", which is often seen as asking for payment)

[EvilTwins]

Sorry Coldtits - x-posted

[GetOrfMoiLand]

DD's old school was like this - arranged field trips (to China, Chile and Iceland from memory) for kids to help 'enrich' their subjects. I was mentally adding up the cost!

Her new school does not have a huge amount of funding and therefore does not do enrichment trips. To be honest I am a bit gutted as I would me happy to pay for her to go on these things.

I don't know how much they actually help in getting better grades though. I was never allowed to go on trips as a kid and was not allowed to take music as it would have cost to much money - I still got 8A* and a B.

With music perhaps it is difficult as you do really have to pay for lessons. DD used to have gyitar and clarinet lessons and I remember they added up.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say to your dc that if they go on the history trip, they can't go on the art trip for instance. They do need to learn that your pocket is not a bottomless pit. The school will just have to lump it. Saying that, most schools will offer to spread the payments over a long time, and they usually gove you a lor of notice for trips. When dd went skiing I gave the office a load of post dated cheques for an affordable amount. They were fine with it.

Calamari - have you got any teenagers? Of corse you can't expect a kid to 'tailor' their choices to suit their budget. And no 13 year olds generally cannot get a job (dd would do a paper round in central Gloucester over my dead body). I was hoping that kind of attitude dies out in the 50s.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Apols for the crappy spelling in that last post. I can spell, honestly

[webwiz]

When DD1 was choosing her GCSEs her music teacher said that any student should be able to take the GCSE whether or not they already learn an instrument and be at the required performance standard at the end of the course.To support that some amount of music tuition should be provided by the school as part of the course.

Obviously in reality most children that take the GCSE are already playing an instrument but I am amazed that some schools are making parents pay for all the music tuition as that goes against the whole point of the GCSE. My DCs school offers a shared half an hour on any instrument that the pupil wants including voice. Not masses of free tuition but better than parents having to pay the music services sky high costs and the school has lots of music groups and choirs to perform in.

[teamcullen]

Coldtits Thanks, thats a good idea about the band. She was only saying yesterday about joining the school band and advanced choir. But I might look and see whats availible in the community. She plays Keyboard/piano and is also a pretty good singer but piano will be the instrument she will study.

Eviltwins We are in Liverpool and are quite lucky as we have some very good quality small theatres, as well as a big theatre which gets big production shows. The drama teacher said that they use a mixture of these and Manchester theatres. Although i think it is definatly worth mentioning Mousetrap foundation. DS2 (7) and I went to see The Lion King in London in November, as part of his Creative Curriculum studying the animal kingdom. It cost us £40 each but worth every penny for the experience of going to the west end.

[Milliways]

DS came home on Monday saying he had a letter about a Geography field trip that they HAD to go on as it was for courseowrk worth 25% of GCSE. I was therefore VERY relieved to see it was a day trip to local river costing £10.

We HAVE agreed to pay fro him to go on a classics/Geography trip abroad, but this was an extra, in half term, and he is aware other things have to give to pay for that.

I am glad he is not doing Art and wanting expensive materials all the time.

[gramercy]

How about instrumental lessons being a birthday/Christmas present? If she's that keen on music she'd see the sense of that idea.

I don't think you can say "oh, it should be free" about everything. Life isn't like that. I pay for piano lessons for ds, but I cut back on other things to pay for these. Also I make sure he works bloody hard at it [mean mummy emoticon].

If dd/ds wanted to do Equestrian Studies at college, do you think they should be provided with a horse?

Ds came home with a note about an RE school trip. I just said that he'd have to pass on this one, as he's already expressed an interest in a history trip in a few months' time.