I can't help feeling that sometimes the parents are to blame with the disappointment the kids face when changing schools ......

[sandyballs]

.... a good friend of mine has put her 11 year old boy up for various local grammar and other selective secondary schools. He is bright but hasn't managed to get into any of them as they are hugely competitive, as most are!

Most of his peers are going to the local comp which is good, had great ofsted report etc.

However, there is an 'academy' locally which has a bad reputation and they are trying to get kids from her area into there and improve it and this is the school that he has been offered.

His mum is incredibly upset by this, as I would be under the circumstances, but I feel we need to change our tact as parents. This boy has been told, or felt, that he has 'failed' all the grammar and other selective school exams, he expected the local comp, having been told or overheard that the academy was failing,was a last resort etc etc. I just think if he hadn't heard all this negative stuff then, if after an appeal, he still has to go there, then it would be better for him in the long run, instead of approaching it with the thought that he had failed and was in the worst school ever.

[sandyballs]

bump

[MollieO]

We are years from that decision thank heavens but I imagine what you suggest is easier said than done. At 11 children know the good and bad schools. I did at that age, better than my parents.

[RatherBeOnThePiste]

It does worry me too when children are almost set up to fail i.e. trying for selective schools for which they have no realistic chance of getting in.

What on earth must that do to their confidence and self esteem. I know that you would tell them that if they didn't get in, it wasn't the right school for them blah blah, but they must feel they failed especially when they see that their contemporaries got in.

It must feel horrid too, to be offered a school that no one apparently wants to go to.

[MillyMollyMoo]

We are 12 months away from this situation and it's not that cut and dried, the kids know which school is right for them, you're encouraged by the primary school to take the children to the senior schools to give them some input into the decision.

[RatherBeOnThePiste]

But realistically, how much choice do you get anyway?

There are heaps of threads at the moment with parents unhappy at the decisions made for their DC.

[Kneazle]

Unfortunately, there is nothing parents can do about this. You cannot bring your child up in a bubble where they do not find out about the reputaion of local schools. Children as young as 7 in our school discuss their secondary school hopes. Children are surrounded by conversations about good and bad local schools. I know an eight year old who can quote the % of GCSEs of all the local comps in our area. It is also in all the local papers all the time.

Therefore, even if your own family do not talk in these terms your child will find out. It is not possible to take an 11 plus exam without some understanding that failure is possible.

By year six it reaches a hideous peak with groups of kids forming that are going to particular schools all talking about which is better.

Please don't blame the parents, the system is hideous as it is and should be stopped.

[Litchick]

I was recently interviewing some young people who had got involved with gang culture and they nearly all mentioned how terrible their school was and how their understanding of that had affected them.
One said, 'everyone knew it was a shit school, so what did that make us.'

I think the solution though, is not to pretend their school wasn't 'shit' but to deal with some of the problems that made it so.

[AMumInScotland]

I don't think you can avoid children this age knowing that some schools have a better reputation than others, better facilities, better exam success etc - as others have said, they'll find this out from each other even if their parents don't talk about it.

But I do think some parents could avoid looking and sounding quite so much as if the world would end and their DCs future might as well be written off now if they got the "bad" school. Yes it will be more of a "challenge" for them, but they can still get decent grades, and live a happy fulfilled life, even if they end up at the school no-one wants. If they turn up on the first day feeling like their life is effectively already over because of it, then they are not going to be able to deal with the reality of it - which may not be nearly so awful anyway.

[crazycrazy]

Yes - DSS's mother told him at age 6 that if he didn't work harder he would have to end up at the 'stupid' school instead of the grammar

[CardyMow]

In my town, there is one particular school that is known as the 'shit' school, and almost every parent in the town would sell their soul to satan rather than have their DC's attend there. Unfortunately, when it's the only school in your town to need police patrolling outside, and even a community police officer based in the school, and metal detectors on the entrances (which none of the other schools in the town need), the dc's know from the age of 7 that they don't want to end up there.

In my area of the town, we have what is known as the 'best' school in the town. However, there is not enough places at the 'best' school for more than 3/4 of the children that live within it's 'catchment' area (which is getting smaller and smaller, year on year). Guess what the next closest school is to our area as the crow flies?? (not by bus, but LEA's don't use logic, do they??).

So from the local primaries each year, 3/4 of the children will get a place at the 'best' local school, and 1/4 at the 'shit' school. And no matter what sort of a spin the parents put on it, the DC that end up there are often distraught. I know my DD's best friend was.

And often, it can be something like number 10 on the street will get the 'best' school, and number 12 net door will get given the 'shit' school. Which upsets the DC's even more.

[CardyMow]

That should be next door, not net door!

[michcat]

Sometimes it comes from to primary school teacher too.
Last year at parents evening I mentioned that we were going to the open evening at the lowest acheiving school in our area and the teacher said 'Oh, so your thinking of sending her THERE are you?'Sounding quite shocked.
I told her that we were looking at all of the local schools but, had my daughter not been present, I would have told her 'No its our nightmare school but as the second closest and only undersubscribed school she could end up there anyway, so we need to see it.'
Actually we quite enjoyed the evening and came away thinking that although we weren't going to include it in her options if she had been allocated a place there she would take the place while on a waiting list for one of her prefered schools.
It certainly made the wait for the letter easier knowing that the 'Nightmare' outcome wasn't as bad as we'd thought.

[jackstarbright]

"However, there is an 'academy' locally which has a bad reputation and they are trying to get kids from her area into there and improve it and this is the school that he has been offered."

This is the bit of the OP which upsets me. Why is it this an exceptable way to improve a poor school. Is there any evidence it actually works? Hopefully the LEA are doing a lot more for this school and not just relying on some extra kids from (I'm assuming) a 'better' area to improve things.

[Kneazle]

Same here Loudlass, for the summer term of every year I have watched lovely intelligent children in year six who are assigned the "shit school" lose faith in themselves and withdraw. Often other children stop playing with them. I would say quite a few of them become depressed. On the day they leave Primary they cry in fear. One child last year vomited with the stress.

This is not the fault of the parents it is the system.

[Kez100]

Children will know what school is good and which has less of a good reputation, but it is a parents job to encourage their child to take ownership of their education. If they are allocated the worst school in town (and no appeal is possible) then allow the child to have some grit. Go there. Prove they can do well by working hard.

Even if they get a few GSCE grades lower then they would have got at the best school, think of all the things they have learned about themselves and how THEY can influence their own lives, whatever is thrown at them.

[OneMoreMum]

I'm guilty of doing this, our local school is not brilliant so we put our son through a private school entrance test (which he passed) and applied to 2 good state schools. Based on previous admission patterns we expected to get first choice state school or third choice and go private so 'bigged up' those 2 options.
Turned out we got 2nd choice state school, perfectly good school but DS is gutted, he had completeley set his heart on state school no 1 and won't be persuaded. Not that he has any choice.... time to start bigging up school no. 2!

[Kez100]

And bigging up him, OneMoreMum. He is clearly a bright lad and he takes all that wealth of knowledge and ability to school 2 -where ever it is.

[OneMoreMum]

Thanks Kez
Re you previous post, I went to a school that was (and still is) considered to be awful, but there were still a lot of good teachers there.
I did fine, although I can see how I would have done better elsewhere, but if you come out of the other end you certainly come out tougher and more confident having acheived against the odds.
He's coming round a bit I think now

[Kez100]

What upsets me the more I read on these forums is how parents - through their constant demands for exactly what suits their child - are actually, as a result, not preparing them for real life.

Obviously, the first place to start is to try and get the best for them, be that a place at the local outstanding school or exactly the option choices they would like to do. Obviously if the appeals process is available then try it.

However, when all else fails, not everyone can have everything they want. Life is a compromise and sometimes you have to learn to compromise. Some children are born with disabilities and have to compromise from the outset. If you don't get into the great school (and remember a lot of their great results isn't necessarily down to them it's down to the very able cohort joining!)then embrace the new less good school and aim for top set. Encourage them to work their socks off and prove they can do well where ever they are. If the full option choices are not your first choice then embrace a new subject as a final choice. You may learn something about yourself you never knew.

Once they are out there is the work marketplace things will not be handed to them on a plate. Employees with self motivation and a bit of fire in their belly to achieve. That's what I, personally, like to see in a new employee.

[cumfyxtine]

Was the local comp as one of their choices?

No matter how much you might not want it you should always put the best of your 'worst case' options on the form...

[OneMoreMum]

Xtine

You know this story I think - you have our first choice school!

V

[OneMoreMum]

I agree with Cumfyxtine, though, if the OP's friend didn't put the local comp on the form at all that was a bit silly, our 3rd choice local school was still a lot better than what the council would have offered had we failed to get in at any of the good local schools...

[GetOrfMoiLand]

The system is absolutely shocking.

I have bleated on about this on various other threads. DD is currently at a 'bad' school. She used to go to a really good selective school however I removed her due to terrible bullying, the only school that had spaces was the one she is on now.

It is not that rough a school - however academically it is very poor. The system in Gloucester stinks. There are 4 excellent grammars. 4 or so crap comps. ALL the kids in the comps think they are thick and are less regarded than the kids who go to grammar.

We are raising a load of kids in this country to feel that they are second class citizens. It is like the crappy secondary moderns of the 40s and 50s.

It needs to change.

[Mimiso]

I agree with Kez, the school I chose as first choice for my son recently got inspected and got satisfactory which I wasnt very happy about. However we had chosen this school because the boys at that school are happy children, they like their school and they have good discipline. If we win our appeal I would still like him to go there because he is the top set so there will be no issue with him failing unless he doesnt pull his socks obviously. It is important to instil in a child that their future is in their hands academically. They should WANT to learn, not have to learn because that is how their school is (grammar schools). I would love my son to be in a grammar school but we didnt enter for the 11 plus and I wasnt particularly bothered about it either. A child should be able to excel in any setting if they are motivated to learn, this is what I have told my son. Obviously if they are being bullied then that is totally different angle

[spiderpig8]

Mimiso - well that's a nice theory, but a child might be motivated to learn but can't because the other children are so disruptive, the pace is too slow, the teachers demotivated.
My DSs are at a grammar school and the discipline is really good all the children are courteous, confident , well mannered and ambitious.
There is a very apt saying.It is the schoolmaster i pay, but the schoolboy who educates my son.Peers are very important IME