Appeals

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

those of you who have been there please come and talk me thru it
those of you in the same boat as me let's support each other!

[passmyglassplease]

hi asbm, sorry you are not happy with your school allocation

what are your chances on appeal?

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

hi pmg
really pleased that dd got her first choice bet that must be a huge weight off for you!
tbh i'm not at all sure re:appeal
but i will do it
he has no peers going to the allocated school nor are there any links with his primary and he would also have to travel on his own to get there as i will be travelling in the opp.direction to taxi his siblings to their school
never a dull moment being a parent is there?!

[ClaraJo]

OP you have my utmost sympathy - I failed with both my appeals

[Mimiso]

seriouslyblonde - sorry you havent got the decision you wanted. I am in the same boat and I am going to appeal too as I am not happy with the '6th' choice my son was allocated as it is totally horrendous There are better schools nearer to us and I am at aloss as to why he hasnt been offered a place there.....I have no idea how to appeal either so maybe we can support each other. So if you want to go on a waiting list does this have to be a school you had chosen or you can approach any school?

[LegendLay]

Mimiso, I think you can approach any school to go on waiting list.

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

mimiso as legendlay said you can appeal for a place at any school
or you can ask to be placed on the waiting list
if you actually indicate that you will appeal then your ds name will automatically be added to the waiting list
from the convo i had yesterday with the LEA i'm told that few parents actually go down the appeal route so hopefully this might work in our favour
how did your ds take the news?
mine doesn't know as yet as he's away on a school trip til fri,i'm dreading telling him about it

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

mimiso what i've done this morning is to write the letter to the LEA asking for ds1 to be placed on the waiting list
i've decided that i need a bit of time to think things thru before i send in the letter outlining the basis of my appeal as we have until march 15th iirc
maybe this might be the right course of action for you to take as well atm as after all we're both still v.upset and we want to put the best case poss.forward for our boys

[cory]

cory's potted guide to the appeals process

From my own experience of the appeals process it will not make any difference how many or how few other parents go through the appeals process. When we appealed, there were 35 other parents appealing on same day for same secondary. We still got a place (though we may well have been the only ones).

Once the places have been allocated, the school's position is that they are full and they do not want to take anyone else, thank you very much. So they are not going to take even one more pupil unless they have a really strong case. Normally either that the LEA have failed to follow their own admissions criteria or that there are very special compassionate grounds.

In the appeals hearing the LEA/school will argue that your child cannot be admitted without detriment to the school; you will need to argue that the detriment to your child from not getting a place will be greater than that to the school if they have to exceed their numbers. Unless the LEA have made a mistake about your child's admission, this will probably have to involve an argument about your child's special circumstances that would not apply to the hundreds of other children who might also prefer to attend this school. Any argument should be backed up by evidence.

So if you are going to argue that he needs to be with his friends, it might be an idea to include a psychiatrist's report to explain why he is extra fragile (after all, not unusual for friends to go in separate directions at this age). If you want to use the transport argument, again a letter from a doctor explaining any special reasons why he cannot use the normal transport arrangements (most secondary school children make their own way to school by foot or on public transport unless the school is very far away in which case the LEA will provide transport). Though tbh the LEA might well decide to provide transport for a special reason rather than allocate a school place.

In any case, the appeal has to be about the needs of your child, not about your convenience.

Whatever you do, do not mention in the appeals hearing that you can't accept the allocated place because it's an awful school:

a)this is not the way to make friends and influence people

b)it is also no reason why your child should get a place rather than any one of hundreds of other children

We went through this two years ago as our disabled dd had been allocated a place at a school without wheelchair access. It was well worth it but a very stressful experience and even with a case as strong as that, I really felt I had to keep my wits about me.

[cory]

And don't forget to read up on the respective schools as you will need to argue for the school you want being the only one that will meet your ds's needs. They may try to fob you off with St Scrot's at the other end of the county; you want to show that St Swot's is the only one that provides exactly X, Y and Z which your ds needs.

[prh47bridge]

That's good advice from Cory. A few additiona points:

Don't take a photo of your son to the appeal. The panel will feel you are trying to blackmail them.

Do make sure you read and understand the LA's case before the appeal. If they bring up significant points in the appeal that aren't mentioned in their written submission, kick up a fuss. They aren't supposed to do that as it stops you from preparing properly.

Do check the capacity for the school and the number of pupils they expect to have in the school from September. If the school isn't going to be full even though Year 7 is full, that helps you a little.

To re-emphasise something Cory said, don't say anything about the relative quality of education from your preferred school compared to your allocated school. Appeal panels don't like that. If you even mention league tables it can put them off you completely.

Good luck.

[TrowelAndError]

Excellent advice already from Cory.

The things you describe - going to a different school from his friends and having to get himself to school - are things which thousands of children do every year. Therefore it is up to you to demonstrate why this is unreasonable for your son. You need to present positive reasons for your son to attend your preferred school (with documentary evidence, preferably) - don't waste time disparaging the school you've been allocated.

There are several other recent appeal threads. Have a look at those for further ideas.

[admission]

Appeal panels have no ability to consider whether one school is better than another, so it is pointless bringing up the dreadful OFSTED etc of the school you have been allocated. You can as has been stated make it very clear why the preferred school is the right school - because it does latin and the allocated school does not etc. But if you have 35 appeals as was mentioned by Cory, you can believe the panel is going to hear a good few similar stories, so you have to make a good case!

I would urge you to look carefully at the case the admission authority has made for not admitting. It is not enough for them to be saying we have reached the admission number, we cannot admit any more, they have to explain the reasons why they cannot accept any more. Look carefully at the net capacity of the school and compare it with the admission number- do they seem sensible. Ask when the net capacity was last measured and what building work has taken place since that last measurement. Each extra classroom is an extra 30 pupils that could be accomodated and starts to undermine the case being put forward. Also look at the number in the sixth form, does it seem to be high in relation to the number in years 7 to 11. As the funding for 6th formers is higher than years 7-11, schools like 6th formers but are they doing this by disadvantaging year 7 intake?
Do be prepared to challenge the figures presented - I have seen plenty of occaisions when a school has been boasting in their prospectus about for instance their ICT facilities and then making a case to the panel that they struggle for appropriate ICT facilities. So know the school you are appealing for.
The panel can only make decisions based on the evidence heared. You also need to understand that the panel has two general decisions to make at the appeal (when it is not an infant class size). Firstly has the admission authority made its case that they cannot take any more pupils. If the panel think that the school can take all the pupils who are appealing then you will be given places. Then in the second part the panel hear all the individual cases and see whether any outweigh the prejudice to the school of not admitting.

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

thank you all for your advice it's given me plenty to mull over
admissions-where can i find out this information re:net capacity and when it was last measured?
this is actually a point which i do wish to present esp.as our LEA went from a 3 tier to a 2 tier system 3 years ago without the apparent funding for building work being available

[prh47bridge]

To find out the capacity, when it was last measured, etc. just ask the LA. They will help you with this, even if the answers undermine their case at appeal.

[aseriouslyblondemoment]

thanks i will!

[Trixiedoggy]

Any advice about appealing on secondary school place would be gratefully received.

Missed out on the best school in area.

Daughter shaken (as we all are).

Also, is it worth paying money to some of these sights for extra tips on writing the letters?

I think I have to call our LEA as they have not put a deadline date for appealing.

Cheers

[Trixiedoggy]

Am I right in thinking that a letter from current teacher enclosed in written appeal is not allowed?

thanks again

[drosophila]

Admission and others who seem to know a thing or two - Are appeal decisions published. It would be interesting and informative to read past decisions.

[admission]

Trixiedoggy,
I would personnaly say that it is not worth the money, it is far more important that you spend the time reviewing the admission authorities case not to admit and picking holes in it and also getting the bast possible personal reasons for needing to go to your preference. However I can understand that many people want to have some security of seeing what other people have done. The one thing i would definitely not do is pay for an "expert" to come to the appeal.

There is actually no deadline for appealing for a school place in law. Most LAs do put on a date because of the need to organise all the appeals, but there is no legal requirement to get it in by then. If you are late then there may have to be a second set of appeals for that particular school, which is not very efficient. Some think that if you are the single appealant that you have a better chance of getting in. I do not agree with that thought.

It is an agreed convention that the headteacher of a school is not supposed to write a letter of support for an appealant, though some still do so! They have to be seen to be neutral and give all appealants the same level of chance of success and therefore cannot favour one or more pupils. The same should apply to any teacher, however the panel will accept all letters and evidence submitted. It is up to the panel as to the weight given to the evidence, which should be nil in the case of a headteacher's letter of support for a particular school. I have however seen letters from both heads and teachers where they do not state schools that the pupil should go to but do give information about the pupil's SEN and how it has been handled at their school. I personally would be happy to accept this as a letter as it is factual in nature and may give the panel a better understanding of the pupil's needs.

[cory]

I was a bit that dd's school, including the SENCO, refused to submit any evidence about how her disability affected her at school. I can understand that they mustn't favour any child- but that meant we had to go to panel without that evidence as the school were clearly the only people who had first hand knowledge of this. Will be even more worried about it if it comes to an appeal for dd as his disability really does affect his school work if not given adequate support.

[admission]

Cory,
I can understand your disappointment, but this is a difficult area and I can see the school's perspective that it is best not to give out any information. I would go to the appeal and spell out for the panel the special needs of your child and what this means, with any available written information. It can do you no harm providing that the SEN is clear. Comments about dyslexia etc without any evidence will simply not be given any weight by the panel.

To also clarify the decisions of the panel are confidential and so there are no records that you can consult on previous appeals. However where there is a further appeal to the School Adjudicator there is a formal report published on those cases that they have responsibility for. These are published on the web under www.schoolsadjudicator.gov.uk

[cory]

The problem is, the only people who would be in a position to provide written information about how his disability affects his school work are the SENCO and the teachers who have worked with him. He has a diagnosis but it is a highly variable condition (Ehlers Danlos Syndrome), so the consultant who sees him for 10 minutes can't know more about how the condition affects him than what I tell him (some people are not affected at all, he is severely affected). So any written evidence from the consultant about his school work or ability to cope with daily life would read "mrs X tells me"- which is hardly going to count as additional evidence.

[Trixiedoggy]

admission

Thanks very much for all the info - it is mind blowing to say the least.

We are going to try our hardest but if not, going to encourage our daughter all we can in our second choice.

Just been beating myself up over our choices, on why we didnt move house etc. Exhausting.

Feel for anyone else who is going through this - most of the Mum's and kids are re-joicing, just makes you feel worse.

[Trixiedoggy]

Our school's position is very clear and strong in that it does not offer any letters of support.

This is something I will mention to the panel I think as I am not sure about the other schools in this borough.

I am right in thinking that we will get an appeal hearing even if we do not put too much detail on the appeal form - that we can have our detailed say at the actual hearing?

Thanks

[prh47bridge]

If you request an appeal they have to give you a hearing. However, when you are told the date of the hearing you will be asked to provide any documents, information and evidence you want to submit to the appeal to support your case. If you provide anything new too close to the hearing date (or even at the hearing) the panel may decide to adjourn to allow the LA time to consider it, particularly if they think it is significant.