The Y6 secondary school visits... Anyone else doing that right now? Sorry- long!

[teslagirl]

Also posted in Primary but with no hits as understandably that board is full of YR/Y1 settling in issues!

Just came back from the second- of possibly four secondary school visits! DS1 is in Y5- but before anyone thinks I'm up myself for doing this so early, the Great British Financial Fiasco, which, in house pricing at least, has seen us renting the 5 years we've been in the UK, means we CAN and MIGHT move house to be in the catchment of a desirable school and as you know, you have to be set up IN catchment AND on the electoral role by Oct of Y6.

Now, the things is, the schools involved are surprisingly different though they are ALL state comps. I thought I had a clear idea about what we wanted for DS1 but I'm getting a bit confused now!

School 1 seemed well run and well managed. Thing is, in many places in the UK it wouldn't have to sell itself at all as it seems to stand by its own merits, BUT it's adjacent to another very good school with which it's sort of competing for pupils (we're talking Winchester, here!). BUT did I see well directed lessons and focused DCs because it IS Winchester and all those middle class DC had been 'well warned' of the consequences on mucking around during open morning? (Though the catchment does encompass a big council estate in Winchester)- Or is it always like that? We didn't witness a 'class changeover' either which I feel we might have expected during the time we were there. We were escorted by Y11 prefects, all a credit to their school, of course. The classrooms weren't that big and many seemed very full, albeit with quiet, concentrating DCs. There are 26 to a tutor group. The Head's talk was more or less 'You know how good we are academically, here's how we help your child pastorally', no video or Powerpoint, but several well put together (but 'for Open Day') exhibits in the classrooms.

School 2 is our local catchmented one (for our house, not DS1's school). It's a rather more of a rough and tumble sort of place, wider range of abilities, plus a recent influx from the rougher end of Southampton. The head gave an 'inspirational talk' complete with video, all a teensy bit 'PR'. We were shown around by Y8s and got caught up in the chaos of changeover! Saw a couple of DCs getting mildly 'told off' for mucking about...! However, walking around the school, all the teachers broke off for a chat with us (and within seconds, some DCs in the class seemed to lose their focus, like you might expect). There are 26 per tutor group, and I did feel the classrooms were bigger, with fewer DCs per class, esp in the upper years. I asked the Head what effect the Southampton influx had had and she conceded there had been some exclusions- which, of course is a good thing for the rest of the DCs.

Now, which is the more 'honest' school? School 1 was a lot slicker but is that because their intake reflects wealthier, better educated families whose DCs will be imbued in the ways of 'behaving when necessary'? But is School 2 actually a lot more true to real life, warts and all?

Incidentally, School 3 is where many of DS1's schoolmates will be going though many of the DCs do go to School 2, being in the same town; I'll visit that next week and I EXPECT it'll feel very much like School 2, sharing a similar demographic etc.

School 4 is a bit of an 'outsider' in that it's STRICTLY catchment only, pretty academic (its GCSE results and OFSTED ascend to heaven to sit at god's right hand...) BUT it barely advertises its open day because a) it's THE good school in its area and b) it's a bit arrogant. The catchment is pretty solidly Middle Class. I go there next week, too, if they can deign to fit me in! We'd have to move 1.5 miles to stand a chance of this school but I wonder what I'll make of it? Does it do 'so well' because they PR it that way ie don't allow DCs to sit exams they won't get an A* in? Should I be thinking "With the 'quality' of their intake, they jolly well SHOULD be pushing out the glorious GCSE results!". Will they cater for my more average DS2? Though of course I would consider a different school for him when the time comes. SHOULD I be thinking like that? I mean, it's not that I'm saying 'DS1 is Grammar material thus will go to a grammar, DS2 to a good comprehensive'- We're talking ALL comps, here!

This has all been a bit of a 'train of thought', post, really, but for anyone doing the same thing, what's struck you about the different schools you've visited? How will you 'choose'?

[unhappy]

just replied on other thread

[teslagirl]

Yes, indeed. I do wish I knew more DCs at School 1 as that DID have the best feel so far. I must say the slick presentation can almost backfire on a school- at the one I visited this morning, following the Powerpoint and video shenanigan, I did hear a mother behind me mutter 'Doesn't sound like the same school MY DD has just graduated from!' BUT they do have a new head, a year or so in and such people DO have to be given time to enact the changes they want such as getting funding and in some cases, getting 'old school' ('scuse the pun!) teachers on board.

I think I will follow Anna-several '8s' advice and make a 1-10 list with factors that are important to me then rate the schools accordingly!

[cory]

Ah, that rough Southampton element...

[Porpoise]

Teslagirl, this probably doesn't help you right now but I think it's worth letting it all buzz about in your brain for a bit.

I did all the rounds last year (ds1 now in year 6) and it's only now that things are starting to fall into place. It's honestly taken quite a while to think through all the options and work out what's best for our family.

It also helps to let a little time pass after hearing all the headteachers' flannel. Easy to get swayed this way and that just by a clever/yawnsome Powerpoint presentation!

[teslagirl]

Well, Cory, the reality is the headteacher of School 2 said to me not 8 hours ago, and I quote: "Yes, since the school has been getting far more of those students, I have to admit that the teachers have been reporting much more challenging behaviour than before". At a parents' open day. It doesn't get much more 'from the horse's mouth' than that! She went on to say the school were 'offering these pupils as such support as they could', 'liaising with the families and social services where necessary, but, sadly, there were inevitably some children whom we have had to ask to leave as I have 'x' number of others children's safety and well-being to consider'.

That tells me what I need to know!

It doesn't by any means rule that school out of my reckoning- in fact, an admission of such issues and a statement regarding the school's tackling of these issues is to be admired as it speaks of honesty- and the integrity that the school values. Sure, if such 'challenging behaviour' was rife, I'd have second thoughts but fortunately it apparently comprises only a small part of the student body, but significant enough to raise questions.

[cory]

Ah well, we're an uncouth lot we are. Don't worry, the little corydoras are staying put and not influxing anywhere.

Though come to think of it, if I had heard a head openly say to parents that the children from a specified area (say one of the rougher parts of Soton) were a problem, then I would consider another school. IMO headteachers need to be very guarded as to what they say to parents and must be absolutely relied on not to set different groups against each other. IF she said that to the parents on open evening, then I'd be worried what sort of message she was giving the children. The sensible head IMO confines herself to 'yes, we have had some discipline problems but this is how we deal with them'. No naming and shaming.

[teslagirl]

To be fair I ASKED the HT specifically if the influx of DCs from that area- in the sure knowledge that OBVIOUSLY both parties know exactly which school's catchment I was referring to- which was when she readily conceded that INEVITABLY there had been more issues with discipline and behaviour since the sudden arrival of these DCs.

To have said otherwise would have been lying, would it not?

[cory]

Surely, being able to silence inappropriate questions with an icy stare is one of the basic requirements of a headteacher- isn't that is one of the first things they teach them at headmistress' college?

And why should she use the word INEVITABLY- would it be lying to leave that out? That adverb shows she already had preconceived ideas, a very bad thing in a head.

Why would it be lying to say 'the school has these measures to deal with any child that misbehaves rather than saying what she said?

If my I and dd had gone for that school, I hate the thought of her hearing the head telling another parent that naturally children from her area have an inevitable bad effect. How would that motivate her in her school day?

As Cat says, supposing there had been a sudden influx of Muslim or black children; how would you have felt if you heard the head say 'well inevitably having such children come in has had a bad effect....'?

For the information of MN, I am very happy with the friends my dc's are making in Southampton; they are lovely kids. Well behaved, pleasant to each other and incredibly supportive of dd who is disabled. And I am even happier that dc's will be not be mixing with parents or headteachers with the sort of attitude described in Teslagirl's posts. There are things I do not wish them to learn.

[fircone]

Is school 1 King's?

the girl who did my hair last week went there, and she said that it is a school of two halves, in that the Stanmore kids don't fraternise at all with the 'posher' Winchester children, and vice versa.

I take it no. 4 is Thornden. I can't believe it's that academic, being a comprehensive. Ds goes to a Thornden feeder school, and his classmates have very differing abilities.

Those who are of a snobbish disposition might appreciate the fact that I don't think the thornden catchment includes one single council property.

[teslagirl]

fircone, spot on!

I spoke to a mum at work who's DC has just left Kings and she gave me mixed messages. She said it was VERY strict to he point of pedantry and that they had little interest in the 'middle ground' and DCs who aren't 'joiner-inners' or in sports teams (ooer!-my DSs!) don't get much attention. However, this was all under the previous head AND the DC in question was them made head-'gender' (so as not to identify the DC) so obviously the school must have been doing something right with her! Sh ealso said that 'in the past' there had been 'Gang' issues between the Winchester boys and 'the less well off'....It was an interesting chat but I'm aware we could be talking about any number of secondaries.

As for Thornden, their OFSTED say they do some great work with SEN DCs which is a good thing but I say 'academic' because it achieved 84% A-C in at least 5 GCSES including (and this is a biggie to me!) Maths and English. Wish we were in a catchment! It IS true Thornden, unlike Kings has no Council Kids which can be a mixed blessing. Though Cory may think I have an issue with it! And I said I would send my DS to School 2!

[teslagirl]

OK, just been to school 4 (yes, Thornden!). Very interesting and not what I expected, actually. I was expecting a school similar to Kings in Winchester- strict uniform, strict one way system, and very regimented and rigorous setting (12 sets per core subject!). Incidentally, I'm not criticising these qualities, or praising them, just stating them. It felt quite 'old school' in its approach.

Thornden, surprisingly, felt a lot more like our local catchmented school (no 2, Mountbatten) actually, BUT was in better condition. We again saw classrooms of focused DCs, not too crowded; we saw no changeover BUT they do practically all double periods so that wasn't stage managed. The tutor groups were 28 strong. The uniform is strictly enforced BUT is quite relaxed, tho I actually don't like polo shirts and sweatshirts on secondary schoolers. They 'set' but only into 3 sets in core subjects. The mystery, really was how does this school manage to obtain such outstanding academic results? The answer, I feel, MUST lie in the quality of the intake- VERY middle class. The head admitted it was a big factor. He assured us they entered all DCs for all eligible exams. But his very first address to us was a reiteration of the GCSE results- perhaps in response to the audience, many of whom proved to be entirely results driven. And- I have to say, in our tour group (lead by a deputy head with 2 quiet Y9s in tow) there was the sort of mother you'd only READ about. Talk about braying, posh and pushy! Endless questions about how they could appeal if by some terrible oversight her Y6 DS (silently tagging along) DIDN'T get into triple science; and how could they ENSURE he did his Statistics GCSE in Y10? How could he fit 12 GCSEs into his timetable? etc etc. She didn't ask what would the school do when her DS got his head shoved down a toilet for being such a geek...! (That, MNetters, was a JOKE).

I, however, asked about SEN provision (apparently good, echoed by the OFSTED)

Interestingly, at the end of the visit, the head held a specific meeting about Admissions to those of us outside catchment. Obviously a hot issue- he was very honest and told several parents they'd have no chance where they were currently living.

So once again, a bit confused as I'd hoped to lump Thornden and Kings into one 'style' and Mountbatten and Romsey into 'the other style!

But at the end of the day, I AM more relaxed about things because I now know that our catchmented school, Mountbatten, is a contender. And, in life, I am increasingly becoming a 'sufficientist' - as in 'Is this 'thing' sufficient? Is it 'good enough'?', NOT I must always strive to 'do better', 'find better'- to find the Best. I have a friend who is being credit crunched out of her 11K a year prep (x2!). Her DS1 is in Y6 and will be taking the entrance exams to the linked fabbo, all singing, all dancing Senior School which she has toured and has fallen head over heels in love with ('They have SQUASH COURTS!') BUT she has had to put DS1's name down for a comp which 'Isn't a PATCH on (names desired school)!'. But, from what one can tell from an OFSTED, the comp is great! Excellent exam results, strong pastoral support, wide range of talents catered for. Many folk would kill to get their DC into such a school. But my friend will forever feel she has short-changed her DSs when the money runs out and they have to 'go state'.

So I will strive to maintain a sense of proportion about all this!