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Secondary education

Really boring poncey dilemma about houses and schools. Please help.

37 replies

PeachesMcLean · 03/05/2007 21:46

I can't believe I've turned into a woman who writes a thread like this. I've also read this thread, hoping to find the answer, but frankly it's not helping. I still can't decide what to do and need some practical suggestions, please!

Not an unusual story: we're moving house and really really want to go to a lovely part of Cardiff. Beautiful old houses, trees, lots of playing out space, good shops, really lovely atmosphere. One problem, crap schools. The local comp is failing and the council want to close it. The alternative is a Church in Wales school with a good reputation. So do we join the other parents (I'm sure there are several) and start going to church to get him in there? Generally, I only go in churches to look at the architecture, DS isn't even christened.

Now, if the council gets its way with a rewriting of the catchment areas, our dream house will become catchment area for a very good state school. So all would be well. But that's a risk because the last council plan got thrown out. Or, DS could stay in his current lovely primary, which is fairly local to the dream house but there wouldn't be any other kids nearby who go there, and then he could go to the secondary that his school feeds into. Its reputation has been fairly average I think but it's had an excellent inspection report recently. However, I really want him to have school friends that live locally.

And, DS is only 6, so am I getting my knickers in a twist about something that's a long way off and all the schools could change anyway in that timeframe?

So, what do I do?
a) start going to church? And if so, how often do you have to go and for how many years (school admission policy doesn't specify - I think they're not very strict)
b) live in hope that the council will change the catchment areas after all
c) stick with the lovely primary / ok secondary across town
d) choose to live somewhere which isn't nearly as nice but has good schools (don't want to live anywhere else. Feel like sulking at the thought)

Anyone still awake after that? Sorry so long and complicated, I hope someone manages to work their way through it!

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confusedandignorant · 03/05/2007 23:17

one of the church schools near us insists on seven years weekly attendance (and asks for proof from vicar, or church councils). It used to be ten years plus points for running various groups such as brownies, scouts or choir - so you may be too late on that score with a six year old

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Malaleche · 03/05/2007 23:20

Stick with lovely schools at present but try and find a way to help get the catchment area re-written, no friends in high places? Sorry if this offends, I live in Spain....

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Ladymuck · 03/05/2007 23:28

I'm not sure that I'm about to say anything helpful, but I would challenge as to how important this bit about local friends going to exactly the same school is? Kids seems to do a certain amount of commuting anyway and even if you go to the local school sods law says that your kid will be best friends with the kid who lives right at the far side of the catchment area. Also sometimes it is nice to have kids in the road who don't go to the same school - it gives you someone to play with who may not see any fo the payground politics - a godsend if you end up on the wrong side of a gang or whatever.

Church commitments are fotens not as long as the ten years quoted - you need to get more info fromthe school or other parents 9I have alwasy found church secretaries to be a great source of info). There are worse way of spending an hour a week than goign to church, and it does come with its own set of social activities etc which can be a way of getting involved in your lcoal community too. The CofE/W is deliberately a very broad organisation which encompasses a very wide range of beliefs.

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Clary · 03/05/2007 23:35

Ladymuck I beg to differ on yr first point.

Both DH and I went to selective schools a fair way from home (6 miles in my case, more like 15 in his) and certainly most of my pals seemed to live 10 miles in the other direction. Any distance like that is huge when you are 13 with no transport.

I do think going to the school where the kids in yr street go to is important. Peaches, what will happen if the failing secondary school is closed? Plans for a new one? Or bigger catchment for another??

Bear in mind that in 5 years so much can change and a school that is failing now can turn itself around. I personally wdn't go to church to get into school but that's just me. Maybe I feel that because I do go to church (but not for that reason) IYSWIM.

Not sure if that's any help at all sorry.

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brimfull · 03/05/2007 23:37

I think I would go with option c ,you may have the option of changing senior schools later to the local one.
I DO think local schoolfriends are important,especially at the teen stage when they can walk everywhere.

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TheodoresMummy · 04/05/2007 00:13

Move to dream house.

Keep DS in lovely Primary for now.

Be prepared to ferry him about to play with friends if necessary.

Keep up with developments regarding other primaries, secondaries, catchment areas.

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DominiConnor · 04/05/2007 00:17

The change in boundaries only helps you if it happens before your child starts school.
If they change the boundaries after, then tough.

From what Peaches says, the council is faffing around, so odds are it won't make any difference.

Thus it does rather look like a no brainer, do what it takes your kid to get into a good school.

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PeachesMcLean · 04/05/2007 08:11

Thanks everyone. So no-one's suggesting D? that's interesting. I was thinking perhaps I really shouldn't be so fussy and just seek a compromise elsewhere.

I do really want DS to live in an area where the local children all go to the same school, but that's to do with my own paranoia about him being lonely. He's an only child with no cousins and DH and I aren't one for huge circles of friends, so the poor child is doomed really if we don't make every effort to ensure there's lots of potential friends around. Though Ladymuck, you're right in that you can never plan for sod's law.


The CiW school's admissions policy just says the school is for children of families which attend a church. Doesn't say for how long or whether you need a letter, and I suspect it's on the less strict, modern end of church schools, if you see what I mean.

Do you have to take your children to church with you? What chance will I have of getting a 10 year old boy there? What do you tell them? "Come on we're going to church. I know that makes mummy and daddy hypocrites but we're also snobs and want a nice middle class school for you"

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Ladymuck · 04/05/2007 11:22

Find a church with a decent kids program - you may need to shop around a bit but actually 10yos can have a great time at church esp if it is one with a flourishing youth program (complete with clubs etc). You may have to compromise on the architecture though!

I don't know Cardiff and I live in London. Perhaps it is due to the multi-ethnic mix that we have here, but it is really not typical for all the kids in one street to go to the same school ime. Even in the areas which have great primary schools, there will be a mix.

Perhaps Cardiff has far fewer schools therefore there is little option?

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Hulababy · 04/05/2007 11:24

I'd leave DS where he is for now. So long as you are prepared to be a taxi sevrice occasionally for playdates, etc. then it will be fine. At DD's school very few of the girls live in walking distance of each other, but it hasn't stopped them forging friendships in and out fo school. DD also has local friends as well, in addition to schoolf riends.

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rarrie · 04/05/2007 11:52

Option C and enrol him in the cubs where you live. Children are incredibly adept at having differnt friends in school to those outside. I went to school out of catchment, and never thought anything of having two sets of friends - I just had two best mates, that's all!
If the situation changes with the catachment, you can review the situation then.

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marialuisa · 04/05/2007 14:49

I'm from Cardiff and unless I'm miles off-track I think I know the areas and schools you are referring to. Most friends we have in the area have opted for Welsh medium schools as the CinW school does have a pretty rigorous policy on how long/regularly you should have been attending for. There's quite a bit going on for kids in the area I'm thinking of so if your DS could go to cubs or something je would soon make friends. Kids used to "play out" too.

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PeachesMcLean · 04/05/2007 17:05

Hi Marialuisa, Sadly Welsh medium isn't an option for us but I know there's a lot of people around for whom it is. Interesting to hear your comments about the school - all the school secretary would tell me, when I phoned to enquire, was "yes, you have to go to church". She was less than helpful. Their admissions policy on the website also doesn't specify.

So we're left with hoping the catchment area changes or planning on the further away school and keeping DS in the current primary (which is good) Or looking at a different area altogether. [sulky emoticon]

Will go and look at bus routes to get him across town everyday...

Why can't we just have good local schools for local kids???

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Fillyjonk · 04/05/2007 17:16

i must know where you are moving to peaches

does it start with p and end in a?

or p and end in n?

or LL?

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PeachesMcLean · 04/05/2007 17:22

Start with p and end with a? No no no no no no no. I don't speak welsh and I don't work in the media. And certainly the Ll school is another no - a young acquaintance of mine went there and said it was like the flat earth society when it came to teaching religion. He put me off that one.

No, it's the P - N one. I think you know it well, if I remember correctly. And I'm sure you'll laugh that it's our dream area! But it's where we know people, the shops are great, the park's fab and the little playground behind the library is just one of my favourite places. It all makes me feel really smiley.

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Fillyjonk · 05/05/2007 06:26

ohhhh


peaches, it IS lovely. really. well we bloody moved here just before having kids! Its green and leafy and there are small local shops where people know the kids names. The library is stocked by bloody weird and terrifying librarians but its still nice.

IIRC and this was a few years ago, you CAN get into CH on appeal.

you're right re the school though. no wouldn't touch with bargepole tbh. bascially, everyone leaves this area when their kids are about 8


but whats wrong with cardiff high? are you moving to out of catchment? is the ciw school st t's? is there NOTHING else? i shall ponder. one of my friends did move 4 streets to a tiny house opp the park, just to get his boys into ch though

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PeachesMcLean · 05/05/2007 22:18

Hi filly, the house we've seen is definitely out of catchment for Cardiff High, most of PyL is at the moment I think, certainly the bit we can afford. And today I was told that they require 3 years worth of church going for St T's, which is one heck of a hobby for non believers like us. I was also told there are 20% of places for non church places (contrary to what the school secretary told me on the phone ) but that competition for these is very stiff, and that's a big risk for us.

I think if I'm to be so picky about schools (and I'm not sure DH agrees) we're going to have to look at a different area. It's off to the suburbs for us I think.

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Fillyjonk · 06/05/2007 07:32

aw

but schools are important. we don't know what we're doing about schools but if they go through the state system, then we WILL probably move as they start to approach secondary.

is it llanrumney that you are worried about? (can't work out what school we are in catchment area FOR-very few local teenagers and they are mainly at st t's or somewhere on appeal) if so...aaargh.....tbh, i think you probably are right to be.



houses on the left of the rec as you go toward the park-bangor st, montgomery st etc, I THINK are in the CH catchment area and always used to be relatively cheap. Ditto Shirley Road-lots of house for money.

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PeachesMcLean · 06/05/2007 08:43

You're probably in the llanedeyrn catchment area. [snobby cringey emoticon]

I think what you say about the number of teenagers around is interesting, and yes, some of the houses we've been to see clearly have young children and they're movng out. I'm now taking that as an omen. And again, impacts on my priority of "lots of children to play with locally"

I did wonder about those streets you mention but the gardens are typical postage stamp size and that's fairly high on my list of priorities as well (I'm a very picky girl I know) We'd been looking at the semis on the right of colchester avenue as you go up the hill away from Sainsbury's. Yes, not the really gorgeous part of PyL but close enough to be walking through it everyday.

We'll arrange to go and see a load up round Heath next week, around the Saints I think. They've got reasonable gardens and we're into Whitchurch and Llanishen schools then. No wellfield road and little park but we drive to those at the moment so can do it again I suppose. Wish me luck.

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Fillyjonk · 06/05/2007 09:06

heath is nice,deffo.

i might mean llanederym. i am near waterloo gardens and suchlike

most of the gardens round here are small. BUT you have the park

and there is one big plus. people are very friendly

is there NO chance of going through the welsh system? welsh schools are, i think, good locally, most local teenagers are in welsh school IIRC.

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PeachesMcLean · 06/05/2007 09:18

No, sadly, it's not an option for us. DH and I are not welsh speakers and it's just not something we'd take up. More chance of going to church for three years rather than learn welsh to get DS into a better school. Church is only an hour or two a week, learning a language is a big commitment and I don't feel I have space enough in my brain for it. And I wouldn't want to be unable to look in DS's books and help with work.

You're about a mile from us in that case. We're in "lower roath".

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Fillyjonk · 06/05/2007 09:22

oh i don't think any of those things need to be a massive problem, peaches. can explain more. loads of non welsh speakers (and with no INTENTION to learn welsh) at welsh schools, they are, so i have heard, good at integrating such families

the only thing might be is if your ds is already in shcool

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Judy1234 · 06/05/2007 10:24

Never does people harm to go to church whatever the reason. You might even find God.... and it's particularly good for small children to learn to sit still and shut up. Excellent process.

On schools get an ace job and then just pay for him to go somewhere great where houses etc don't matter.

Learn Welsh anyway. The more we test our brains and learn new things the longer our brains work well.

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Fillyjonk · 06/05/2007 10:28

lol at xenia

or you could stay home and mn and drink coffee

oooh tough choice

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Fillyjonk · 06/05/2007 10:29

and xenia no decent privates round here tbh

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