Is there anywhere you can find out how many passed/failed the 11 plus in your area?

[charliecat]

I have just looked at the local grammar school website and for 140 places there were 461 applications, the next best school is catholic, we are not.
How many kids enter and fail the 11 plus, would all 461 applicants already have sat it when applying?

[SueW]

Crumbs. No grammar schools here but our local private school has approx 180 candidates for 100-120 places. And quite a few of them will have been entered elsewhere too.

[figroll]

This is a bit of an old message, I haven't been on mumsnet for ages, but here where I live, the council produce a booklet that tells you precisely how many children have chosen any particular school. You can then work out how many didn't get their choice by looking at entry numbers. However, that said, you don't know where the children listed the school on their preference form - it could have been first, or it could have been sixth. A bit complicated, but where my dds goes to school there are approx 10 children for each place although of course this varies depending on birthrate.

[babe1]

Choosing secondary schools is a distressing process, especially if, like us, you live in an area where the best school is grammar, the others are dire. We are fortunate however, that our children can go to a good Catholic Secondary, but they, and the grammar, only accept first choice applications. You feel like you don't really have a choice. Also, if your child, like mine, is very capable, but also very flaky and emotional about sitting the 11 plus, what do you put as your first choice?! Aaargh!!

[Freckle]

I think you may find that it has changed this year. Our local very good high school used to operate a first preference only system, but the government outlawed it this year.

I would check again regarding your schools, because, if they are using this system, it should be brought to the attention of the schools adjudicator as it is no longer allowed.

[Berries]

sadly it is still allowed for foundation and religious schools, so you may well find there is a mix in your area (there is in ours)

[Freckle]

The school in question here is a foundation school and they have definitely had to change their over-subscription criteria as a result of the government's edict. So maybe it is just religious schools which are exempt.

[swedishmum]

One of our local schools is no longer supposed to question which other schools your childis applying for, but it is still on the application form despite us all having a letter from LEA saying we need not comply. Will the school still (illegally) take notice? I'm still not sure how to fill in the form.

[Freckle]

If you are in Kent, there is one application form which you complete and send to the LEA (you can also do this online). The LEA then copy that application form to each school listed, but having first removed all mention of any other school. So each school simply receives your details but has no idea to which other school you may have applied. The schools then offer each child a place (or not) and notify the LEA. The LEA then notifies the child of the offer from the school ranked highest on their original application.

Is the school you mention a private school?

[curlew]

I think the system in Kent is different depending on which side of the county you live in . I know the grammar schools in Tunbridge Wells take the top 11+ passes-going down the list until they run out of places. Or at least that's what they did last year. Over here near Faversham, it is a pass or a fail - if you pass you get (generally) either the first or sceond choice grammar school on your form if they've got spaces, if you fail the same applies to non selective schools. If all your choices are full, you get offered the nearest school of the category you qualify for that has spaces. If that makes sense. Either way, it's a nigthmare and you have to have your form in by next Friday!

[curlew]

Oh, and I think the "first preference" criterion has been outlawed everywhere this year.

[Freckle]

You need to check in the "Admission to Secondary School in Kent 2007" publication sent to all parents of Y6 children. Every state secondary school in Kent is listed and each school sets out their over-subscription criteria. They then have to apply that criteria to allocating places.

Most schools list children in local authority care as their first criterion, but there are generally so few of these that it isn't that important. Then they seem to list siblings at the school followed by distance from school to home.

I'm not aware that schools can cherry pick their pupils based on their 11+ scores. I'm not even sure that the schools get to see these. I think they just get sent a list of children who are eligible.

[curlew]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong about the Tunbridge Wells grammars - I was passing on what I thought was good info. Hope I'm wrong - that system seems even worse than the other one. My brain has been turned to mush by the whole thing, I can't rememebr which school was which and my dd said sadly last night "I think 10 is too young to have to do this" I resisted the temptation to snap back "48 is too young to do this" and broke out the medicinal hot chocolate

[Freckle]

You may be right, curlew. I'm just going by what's in the LEA booklet.

We are very lucky in that we live about a 10 minute walk from an excellent grammar and an excellent high school, so the pressure is removed from us regarding whether DS2 will get in. There aren't many children closer than we are!

We went to the open evening at the grammar on Thursday (shown round by DS1 who is in Y8 there). Rather problematic as DS2 had injured his leg at school and was hobbling around on 2 walking sticks (we couldn't find any crutches). DH had to carry him up and down the stairs (no lift) and the school rather amazingly then produced a wheelchair for him to tour the ground floor. DS2 of course kept trying to do wheelies in it .

[curlew]

We have quite a wide choice - which of course we're lucky to have, but actually makes it worse. And dd has fallen in love with a very high performing girls grammar, which I'm not sure is right for her, even if she passes the test. The frustrating thing is that it's perfect for her in every respect - games, music and so on - except the actual work, which I think might be a struggle for her. Grrrrrrr!

[miljee]

We have deliberately chosen not to live anywhere near the Salisbury Grammars (though I actually went to the girls' 33 years ago!) because the existence of those schools has caused the educational standards of the other (especially boys) schools in the area to plummet. My boys are probably not grammar school material but, even if they were, I'm not sure I'd want them mixing with the type of upper class, private prep. school/ privately tutored and crammed boys there these days! I do worry that if a boy NEEDS years of extra tuition to get into a grammar, should he be there at all? Having said that, I'm aware that we have to position ourselves carefully to stand a chance of getting the boys into one of the 3 good comprehensives where we do live in Hampshire.

[Freckle]

I would never put my boys through years of tutoring just to get them into a grammar. If they are not grammar-school material, they will struggle and be miserable.

I do know that some parents are employing tutors for their children who are in Y3 and Y4. Absolutely nuts.

[swedishmum]

The school near us that expects us to list preferences on the supplementary form is a comprehensive, wellknown for having its own rules. The Head is very anti-grammar. The LEA have advised parents to strike out the question and put N/A as it an outlawed question. Local suspicion is that N/A forms get put at the bottom of the pile...

[Freckle]

In that case could you not lie and put down that you've only applied to other comps or say that this is the only school on your list?? Bit cheeky, but if they are acting unlawfully.......

[tallulah]

Knowing the school in question swedishmum that doesn't surprise me!

We decided there was no way any of ours were going there when we went to the Open Evening with our firstborn and the Head's speech was basically an anti Grammar rant. All the other schools told us about their own ethos, strengths and facilities. He told us nothing about his school, just that we were stupid if we were considering Grammar.

From what I've heard from parents of pupils I'm glad we didn't bother.

[tresinia]

Freckle and babe 1, are you sure that this has been outlawed, can I find it anywhere on internet to prove it? Reason I ask is because my DS2 is in year 6 and we are looking at the local (good) secondary school in the Dudley area which is foundation and insisting it is put first on the common application form which is used by all the surrounding LEA's including our own. (if you don't put it first you don't get in, end of.) However I did want DS2 to take the grammar school test but that also has to be put first. I have queried this with the school themselve, the LEA, the local authorities in question, my local councillor and my MP and no-one has come up with a solution for me. What I have been told is that if you put the local secondary first (as I feel obliged to because his brother is there and I don;t know for sure if DS2 would pass the test anyway) then even if he took the grammar school test and passed, he wouldn't be offered a place there if he satisfied the admissions criteria for the local secondary (which he will because we live close and the sibling rule). They justify this by saying you have had your first choice and therefore won't be offered another place. I feel that grammar schools ought to be separate from this common application process. I have been at my wits end with this and feel there is no point at all in him taking the test. I'm not brave enough to risk the almost guaranteed place of the local school by putting the grammar schoo first, since he wants to go to the local school anyway!

[curlew]

Just read on another thread that the first preference first criterion is still alive and kicking in London too - so maybe it's only in Kent that it's been outlawed. Sorry if I misled anyone.....

[Piffle]

Hmm we had it in Lincs the year we moved up here to get ds into the grammar - luckily he sailed it but it caused riots and tears and tons of kids really lucked out school wise, appeals left right and centre, kids being bussed out to other grammars 25 miles away
TRagic.
I'm glad it's changed back in most places it was a travesty

[Freckle]

It might be worth looking here to see if a decision has been made regarding your area. It does seem to be on an area-by-area basis rather than a blanket decision covering the whole country.

In the admissions booklet produced by Kent County Council, there is an introductory letter from the director of the LEA which includes

"This year, as a result of decisions made by the Schools Adjudicator, those schools which previously gave priority for places to applicants who had named them first on the Common Application form will no longer do so."

So perhaps the answer is to get your LEA to object to this process and to get the schools adjudicator to rule on it. Probably a bit late for this year, but could get it through for next.