A Level French or Latin? - at state school

[lainiekazan]

ds has to choose his A Levels. Bizarre as he is only 14 (youngest in year) but there you go. I'm sure there's room for manoeuvre later but he has to make an initial choice.

He's definitely doing English Literature and History, but can't choose between French and Latin.

My only helpful suggestion is that at least with Latin you don't have to do a foreign exchange...

Question really is that he would be at a sixth form college, so would he be at a huge disadvantage compared to those studying Latin at a public school? When I look at the resources at, say, Winchester College, it makes you want to throw in the towel as it would be impossible to compete against students there. (And I don't have a spare £31K in back pocket.)

Any advice?

[curlew]

I don't understand. If an institution offers A level Latin, it offers A level Latin. Why do the resources available make a difference?

[lainiekazan]

I don't know! That's why I'm asking.

[Smartieaddict]

I would go for French, as it will actually be of some use to him in real life. I have never understood the point of learning a dead language.

[AnnaBBB]

He should do the one he is most interested in....passion for a language helps to be good at it ....as for usefulness of learning dead languages, apart from the derivation angle, Smartaddict - that's a very very narrow view of education - you should be aware that some major city law firms really like Classics graduates because they think their brains are wired the right way for being great lawyers, plus they regard the Classics are challenging so anyone who can master them is likely to have the right level of intellect - perhaps it to do with language construction and drafting. Learning Sanskrit probably does the same thing. Interestingly, Mark Zuckerberg was passionate about learning the classics as a high school student ...you wonder if that also helped him become a better programmer ...

[AnnaBBB]

But don't take my word for it (borrowed from the Daily Telegraph) . I think the argument in favour is general whether for law or another career. This is purely in response to an argument that learning Latin is practically useless.


Lord Sumption, 63, was a leading barrister, with clients including Chelsea Football Club owner Roman Abramovich, before becoming a judge.
He went to school at Eton, graduated from Oxford University with a history degree in 1970 and became a barrister in 1975.
Lord Sumption told Counsel that the "most difficult" thing about practising law was "not the law but the facts".
"Most arguments which pretend to be about law are actually arguments about the correct analysis and categorisation of the facts," he said.
"Once you're understood them it's usually obvious what the answer is. The difficulty then becomes to reason your way in a respectable way towards it."
He added: "That's why the study of something involving the analysis of evidence, like history or classics, or the study of a subject which comes close to pure logic, like mathematics, is at least as valuable a preparation for legal practice as the study of law.
"Appreciating how to fit legal principles to particular facts is a real skill. Understanding the social or business background to legal problems is essential. I'm not sure current law degrees train you for that, nor really are they designed to."

[FantasticDay]

What does he want to study? Latin would be good if he is going to do English lit or medieval history. French better is he wants to do Management studies with a language.

I would have thought the resource issue would be somewhat less important with Latin than French btw. You don't really need language labs, access to foreign TV etc, with a dead language. Thinking about it, I think t'internet will have levelled the playing field a lot since I took language A levels. He can read Le Monde online, watch French TV etc.

[FantasticDay]

And download lots of French books and commentaries onto a Kindle, without having to wait a month to get them from the public library.

[MelanieCheeks]

I can't believe he has to choose a levels at 14! Is this an indication so the school can make sure he's got the right gcse choices?

[curlew]

Hang on a minute- 14?

What year is he in?

[titchy]

Presumably he's year 10? So 15 soon?

DD will also have to choose her A Levels at the end of year 10. The 6th form college her school feeds into requires priority applicants to apply before the end of summer term of year 10, then all other applicants have the Autumn term of year 11 to apply. Scary!

Can he hedge his bets and put both down? 4 A Levels to start would be a normal load anyway, with a view to dropping one after a year.

[curlew]

And he's going to a 6th form college? Why does he have to choose now?

Forgive me- but are you sure?

[curlew]

Sorry-x posts with titchy.

That does seem seriously bonkers- apart from anything else, what if they don't get the grades?

[MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik]

You could check out the statistics for how many pass or fail from the last couple of years? That might help.

I would have thought Latin will have a very small take-up, and typically only people who're very keen do it, so it has a high pass rate and small classes.

Another thing to think about is, they're not taught in the same way. If he does French, obviously speaking and listening will be components, which they won't be for Latin. If he finds those components more fun, he'll miss out doing Latin - if he struggles with them, he'll find French harder.

Is he not starting out with four? Because if he did, he could do both and then drop one after AS.

[MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik]

(Btw, are they asking him about Latin because they may not run the course if not enough demand? I can understand for that reason they might try to get an idea of numbers early on.)

[annh]

I have a fourteen year old ds who is coming to the end of Year 10 - there is absolutely no mention of him choosing A levels at the moment! And he is actually staying on at his same school for them. Why on earth does he have to choose now? What happens if he doesn't get the required grades for those subjects in his GCSE exams?

[ragged]

since when do kids choose A-levels when still in yr10?

[Winterwood]

I expect the college is taking a sounding in order to plan ahead for staffing etc. I doubt you will be held to the choices.

[Winterwood]

Oh and the extra resourcing at
Winchester applies to everything, not classics alone. Universities know resourcing is more generous at schools like that but the teaching is not especially likely to be inferior at a state sixth form.

[titchy]

Well apparently some 6th form colleges DO want applications in a whole year before? Our local one does, and obviously the OP's does too? It's not great but not sure why people are so disbelieving?

What happens if they don't get the grades? Well they don't get to do the A Levels they want. Surely that's the same anywhere? Even school 6th forms. Unless none of your kids will be applying to 6th form until after GCSE results are out?

[DuPainDuVinDuFromage]

Would doing both be an option? Maybe even just doing both as AS and then taking one of them on to full A-level (please note I don't really understand the A/AS-level system as I did mine under the old system, and also I did both French and Latin at A-level so am biased!)

Ultimately, if he chooses only one he should go for the one he prefers unless he will actually do French or Classics at university, as they are both useful in different ways and the most important thing at this stage is enjoying your studies and applying yourself.

[lainiekazan]

Yes, he's in Year 10 so most of cohort are 15. I guess it's so sixth form can get a feel for numbers, but also they have to write a college application stating which A Levels they wish to take.

I'm not sure what A Level French is like these days. Do they still study literature? Is there more emphasis on spoken French (than in the 1980s)?

[IndridCold]

Thinking even more ridiculously far ahead, does he have any idea what he wants to do after A levels?

I would say that if he wants to continue with a more academic education then Latin would be a better bet. If he is intending a more practical or vocational path then maybe French would be better.

If he enjoys both equally the on balance I would go for Latin.

[MelanieCheeks]

A level French incorporates a good bit of cultural and social understanding, current affairs and politics.

[Talkinpeace]

www.psc.ac.uk/courses/course.php?c=39

[almapudden]

He should do both. it sounds as though he's reasonablyacademic so he should at least start with four A levels, even if he drops one at the end of year 12.