Y7 is level 5 the same as primary level 5

(16 Posts)
lexcat Thu 20-Jun-13 17:01:17

I know two sub levels a year is expected progess in primary but is that the same in secondary. Plus how high do the levels go as dd has been grades for every subject and 4b was her lowest with 6b been her highest. Where are they meant to by the end of year 9.

GrimmaTheNome Thu 20-Jun-13 17:09:25

The levels depend on the subject. For MFLs they start low in year 7 and tend not to get as high as the others. A 4b in a language in yr7 would be pretty outstanding! Whereas you can start getting 7s and even 8s for science and maths from early on.

DDs school sent some explanations (including guidance as to what the yr9 levels typically translate to in terms of GCSE grades thereafter) - I might be able to find it (but just about to have a plumber visit so someone else may be able to provide info sooner ...)

lexcat Thu 20-Jun-13 17:15:11

Sorry just looked again mfl and drama is her lowest of 4c. The 4b was P.E which i thought was her lowest.

GrimmaTheNome Thu 20-Jun-13 17:27:30

I seem to remember in yr7 my DD explaining that in some MFL tests you couldn't possibly be graded higher than a 3-something because they simply hadn't learned the vocab and tenses required for higher grades.

JRY44 Thu 20-Jun-13 20:26:42

No they are not the same - the system is not linear. Pupils should make two sub levels a year. Average in Year 9 would be Level 5, top grades being Level 7A. Subjects they have not done before will start lower and move up more rapidly with increase in knowledge.

teacherwith2kids Thu 20-Jun-13 20:40:05

JRY - but a primary Level 5 should be the same as a secondary level 5,

So if in English your child got a 5 at the end of Y6, but a 4b in Y7, then they have 'gone backwards' from their SATs result (not necessarily backwards per se, but backwards according to the tracking mechanisms as the levels are meant to be the same across levels of education - remember that some areas of the UK have 3 tier systems, so having a 'total break where the levels mean different things' at 11 wouldn't make sense).

And Y9 grades are not 'capped' at 7A as far as I know - I presume not, because DS's end Y9 targets include an 8a and an 8c (leafy catchment comp).

JRY44 Fri 21-Jun-13 00:26:55

I am a secondary school teacher and transition grades between primary and se I diary have never been linear. They have not gone backwards it is a different marking system. Have been doing the job for 15 years and have been KS3 marker so I know what I am talking about. Particularly in English, my subject.

Most schools only do Level 8 in maths not in English. A Level 7A indicates potentialA* at GCSE. Changing to Level 8-1 at GCSE will also not be linear.

JRY44 Fri 21-Jun-13 00:28:03

Secondary sorry

Whathaveiforgottentoday Fri 21-Jun-13 00:53:34

In science we often have kids who go down sub levels in year 7 as like English its a different marking system plus not all result for KS2 science are that reliable, sorry primary school teachers!

GrimmaTheNome Fri 21-Jun-13 09:21:10

>And Y9 grades are not 'capped' at 7A as far as I know
no, they aren't - I think it tends to be in the non-essay type subjects where an answer is more definitively right or wrong that they go higher (DD has expected levels in the 8s for Chemistry, Maths and Electronics). It may depends whether they're starting some of the GCSE syllabus early I guess, so they are getting tests which can be marked at this level?

really you need guidance from your child's school as to what the levels mean

Lottie4 Fri 21-Jun-13 10:33:29

My daughter was a 5c in maths at primary school. In her comprehensive school, they assess between levels 3-8, but there is no mention now of a, b or c. My daughter's end of year maths test gave her a 5.75. Her end of KS3 target was originally assessed as 7.75 - don't think she'll hit it myself, although I haven't told her that!

lexcat Fri 21-Jun-13 18:20:40

Ok, in IT which is not graded till secondary, going from 4c at the start of year 7 to 5b at the end of y7 is normal as it starts lower in the grading but climbs faster.

Making 5b at the end of primary for maths to 6b at end of y7 an impressive start to dd secondary school maths, english 5c to 5b pretty normal. Or have I got that all wrong.

JRY44 Fri 21-Jun-13 18:25:48

Yes Lexcat that sounds pretty normal

EvilTwins Fri 21-Jun-13 18:36:45

JRY44, you are wrong. Levels are linear. A child entering secondary school with a 5c (pretty advanced) in, say, English, should be at a 5a in English at the end of Yr 7, a 6b at the end of Yr 8 and a 7c at the end of Yr 9. That would suggest a GCSE grade A in English. The difference comes in subjects which students have not done before, for schools set baseline data at the start of the year. Depending on the system used, students will still be expected to make 2 sublevels of progress from that starting point. We use an APS of KS2 levels for non-core subjects.

EvilTwins Fri 21-Jun-13 18:37:58

lexcat, 5c to 5b over a full year would be lower than expected progress.

teacherwith2kids Fri 21-Jun-13 18:48:01

I suppose the point that I was making was that the 'theoretical levels' are linear. In other words the criteria for being 'level 5' do not change at 11. However, there are issues of interpretation, application, the use of specific tests etc that lead to 'real levels for real life children' NOT being linear.

Targets, IME, are set on the 'theoretical level' model that assume a linear progress....rightly or wrongly.

(I know that the 'next school up' DO always argue that the criteria being applied are different - having worked in First and Junior schools as well as all-through primaries it can happen at any 'break point' between two schools. However, if you look at e.g. APP grids, the criterai for the levels remain the same - there is no 'Level 4 for Pirmary' and 'Level 4 for Secondary', just a single 'Level 4'.)

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