A question about league tables

[verybored]

Ok, so I know there;s ther new EBACC on the league tables, but is there anything on the league table that will come as a surprise to schools. Did they not have an idea that this was going to be published.

I understand that this wasn't a measure when last year's year 11s took their options, but my son is current year 9 and you may have seen my recent thread regarding most of the students at his school only being allowed to do BTEC science rather than GCSE.

So my point is, are yesterday's league tables going to change what they are going to offer, or would they have made their minds up before that anyway?

[LoopyLoopsIsNoLongerFestive]

Ask the school.

[verybored]

We are already in discussions with the school with regard to the options, i'm just wanting to know from other people who know more than I do about the situation if this is likely to have been a surprise for schools and will change things for current year 9s, or if their plans will remain largely unaffected.

[magentadreamer]

Schools will have known about the Ebacc for a good few months, thats why I find it suprising that your DS's school are only offering GCSE Science to a small minority Was it 70 or so?

[Talkinpeace]

Magenta
schools have known about the ebacc since may 2010
but the exams in these tables were taken in May 2010
the kids started studying for them in September 2008

OP
There is nothing that is news to any school.
Every school knows exactly what each pupil scored in each GCSE for years and years.

As I said on another thread, I am utterly delighted that DDs school got 33% at the EBacc as it is a true comp so to get over a third of the kids through the tough GCSEs at A* to C is a fabulous achievement.

I think a lot of grammar schools have got a bit of a PR disaster on their hands because parents who have paid thousands on tutoring to get their DCs in will NOT be happy to discover that only 60% of kids are doing well in the "Grammar School" subjects.

And Gove has some explaining to do as to how he expects Secondary Moderns (what is left after grammar school kids are peeled off) to get any EBacc results at all.

[magentadreamer]

Talkingpeace, I realise that the results of the Ebacc are from last years Yr11, but I find it suprising that a Yr9 can only do Btec in light of the Ebacc which as you correctly state the school will have known about since May 2010. I think the OP's school only allows 70 or so in the year group to do GCSE Science.

[Talkinpeace]

Magenta,
DH is involved with science outreach and education.
Put it this way, the schools hoped the league tables would creep out quietly.
Since the publication became a big thing his email has gone do lally.
I suspect there will be a LOT of backtracking of policies over the coming terms.

OP may be in a position to persuade the school to convert all the kids onto a basic GCSE as otherwise they are going to have four more years of Gove breathing down their necks.

But the trouble is that they have to turn a very large ship around in a very small time.
There may be lab, equipment, staffing, exam fee and lots of other issues that we humble souls manage to not get involved with!

Also, by the time the EBacc had been announced, the september timetabling and staffing were already in place.

[Acanthus]

I don't see how it's a PR disaster for the Grammars. Surely the parents will already have known whether their children were doing a language or not, or history/geography. I'm sure the Grammar kids will all have maths, English and a science so presume they chose other things in their options and missed one of the 5 EB subjects. No big deal if they did RE, DT music or something.

[Talkinpeace]

Acanthus,
Every parent will have known what their DC did, but I suspect that few realised that the results were being padded with side subjects to meet the old league table criteria.
I also suspect that Mr Gove did not expect that outcome.
Bearing in mind that bright kids do up to 14 GCSE's nowadays, is astonishes me that any selective school is not making each child do at least one MFL and history and geography.

[magentadreamer]

Talkingpeace, I can imagine it will be an admin nightmare for the schools involved and especially for those that thought BTEC Science was a quick way to boost their 5 A-C rates. My DD's school is probably having to do a complete rethink due to their policy of only allowing the top band to do a MFL. Regarding Science they took the option to roll out Triple Science for all my DD currently in Yr9 is the first cohort to see triple science for nearly all.

[Talkinpeace]

Magenta,
You are right. And potentially a huge cost. Books alone for a couple of hundred kids
I suspect triple science will be too hard for some - depends if its a science specialist college so how well resourced they are staff wise.
No MFL at GCSE is insane. The arrogance of assuming that all of the kids future employers will only want them to speak English is breathtaking.
DDs school is a sports and languages one but she intends to do:
English, Maths, Further maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, French, Spanish, Italian, Geography, History, Latin, Art/Music, IT/Technology and maybe another one.

[Acanthus]

I don't think the grammars were padding out with side subjects though, though plenty of schools were, I grant you. Their kids were doing RE, music, IT, DT, possibly pe, possibly two languages, possibly three sciences. The kids will have good solid subjects even if not all had a language as well as history/geography.

[Talkinpeace]

Acanthus
For many of the kids that may be so
but for those who were heavily tutored to scrape in it would have been easier for the school to give them exams they could pass rather than drop down the tables.
Which may be why some of the EBacc results are lower than would have been expected by those without access to the full results.

There are only three LEAs that are full Grammar BTW : Lincolnshire, Buckinghamshire and Kent. If you look at their results, the difference between Grammar and SecMod is very very wide.

[sue52]

I looked at EBACC results for Kent. I was astonished to see that some Grammar schools had as low as 33% pass rate. Makes me wonder how they can justify Grammar status.

[BelligerentGhoul]

Yes, it will change what schools offer. And any schools who have done their curriculum for next year's Yr 9 already and haven't included GCSE Science for as many pupils as possible are being very, very silly indeed.

[Acanthus]

There is also Trafford and I think North Yorkshire.

[Talkinpeace]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England

[circular]

verybored - Our DD also in yr9. The option booklets seem later out than usual this year, so i am assuming something is changing.

From last year they dropped the compulsory language for those doing triple science. I understood (from the headmistress) that by doing this and removing one option, was to give more English and Maths lessons since the 5 A to C's included them.
I have heard rumours that the compulsory language will be coming back for the academic pathways, incuding those doing triple science.
They have never had a compulsory humanties subject, although that is one of their specialisms.

DD has pretty much made her choices based on what was available/compulsory last year. They will cover the Eng Bacc, but they were her chosen subjects anyway. We are hoping that the only adaption she may need to make will be to add an extra option.

Core subjects :
Eng Lang
Eng Lit
Maths
Stats (Comoulsory for top set)
Triple science
ICT (Compulsory GCSE equivalent in yr 9)

Options:
French
Geography
Music

Hopefully additional option :
Drama

[LetsEscape]

There seem to be so many issues that impact on the results table:

Lots of independent selective schools are excluded as they choose to take IGCSE's. Now that these will be allowed in the state sector will they include them in the tables?

And what happens when a MFL is taken a year early? Does that mean the EBAC is affected?

[Talkinpeace]

LetsEscape

I assume that early exams are counted - its the total by end of year 11 - as many schools round here get their upper sets to take stuff early.
IGCSE : should really have been included this year but its a useful cover for the Public schools to hide behind where some of them are a lot less academic than their free alternatives.