How the heck is a 12yo supposed to learn French, when

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

they really struggle with reading and writing in English?

It is getting frustrating. :(

12yo DSD, dyslexic (well, tendencies anyway, can't afford private test) and not getting help since starting yr8. She is getting better at English I must say, she can read a lot more now but spelling and memory are really still difficult for her. She's good at science and maths type subjects though.

She just can't remember any of it.

We did a matching game for her vocab list, and I was thinking next time I might cut up sentences for her to rearrange, but I'm at a loss for what else to do.

She lives with her mum and is only here every other weekend (alternates with siblings) so we can't do as much as we'd like although we do some help online.

I am thinking of getting their textbook because they only have them at school and aren't allowed to bring them home ever. Even for exam revision. They are told to revise from their exercise books but there is barely anything in them, and that seems to have never been marked so there were loads of mistakes.

WWYD?

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

(BTW it's not the actual subject that's the problem, I'm good at French - helped her older brother through GCSE - it's just how to help someone who struggles with literacy)

[purplepidjin]

Maybe have time when it's just the two of you and you're only allowed to speak in french? Also, I had a "First Thousand Words in French" book when I was a kid, and it came in surprisingly handy at A Level

Play "Quelle heure est-il, M. Le Loup" in the garden, particularly with younger DCs.

Sing French songs and nursery rhymes - "Tete, epaulles, genoux et pieds" is a lot of fun, as is "Simon dit"

[shirljon]

Get the textbook (Amazon is cheap) and work from that. I tend to agree with you that there isn't much point to learning another language before you have mastered your first language. But the theory is that learning another language CAN help your word-recognition and grammar in English. Keep helping her as much as you can, but help needs to be more often than every other weekend to make significant progress. Maybe you could help her more if you had a copy of the textbook each? Then you could e-mail each other with the answers?
BTW the school should be doing more than they seem to be doing.

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

"BTW the school should be doing more than they seem to be doing."

You're right about that :(

[penguin73]

If the school subscribes to it get her to spend as much time as possible on linguascope - a fantastic resource that the dyslexic pupils in my class really benefit from using.
And speak to the SENCO at school as well as the teacher - if there is no IEP in place the teacher may not have received appropriate guidance on your child's needs.

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

Thanks, they do have linguascope although I haven't seen it (only just got a new laptop so will look next time she's here. I think she struggles using it at home without help though.

Have looked more at the books, new ones are £13 each which is a lot for us right now but there are used ones for a lot less so I can afford one each and will probably get 2 of the next level up as well.

It'll definitely be worthwhile as her sister can also use them.

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

Am getting a grammar guide by the same author as well but probably just the one as I doubt they'd use it at home.

I got her a dictaphone for Xmas to help with essay/story writing (her brain works faster than her hand) so I guess we could use it for speaking practise.

Basically I have no clue what to actually get her to do while she's here, just give her fill in the blanks or puzzles or translations?

Her self esteem is low so when she can't do something she gets very sad and sulky :(

[sandripples]

As purple is suggesting I think you need to help DD focus on the spoken and heard language as if she can good at these, it will boost her confidence and also help with the written side.

What about songs on CD? Even French nursery rhymes - especially if she likes music.

Or pop or rock songs? With the words that you could puzzle out together.

I think you need to find a child's book of French word games, as purple is suggesting in a way. Perhaps the teachers could help identify some for you. The have them on in the car/kitchen as much as possible.

As the GCS focusses a lot on spoken and heard language for half the marks, this would all be very useful later on!

Amd of course, if you can afford it, get her on the French exchange trip if there is one. She'd pick up lots of language quickly if she's brave enough to go and just try speaking as much as poss! MY DD did a number of exchanges, my DS never did one. I realise they don't appeal to everyone but wow do they boost your language!

[stressheaderic]

At the moment, a language GSCE is not compulsory by law, so if she is in Year 8, she can choose to drop it at the end of Year 9 if she still isn't getting on with it. I do think it's very much one of those 'you either can or you can't' subjects, a bit like Art. A lot of it is down to memory too.
Linguascope is excellent.

[HaveAHappyNewJung]

Yes, I was originally that languages are no longer compulsory, I think it's a real shame, but now I can see that it's fairer on those like DSD. I'm sure she will drop it, but obviously I want her not to struggle for the next five terms :)

She went on the French trip (not an exchange) and enjoyed it, we were hoping to take them again this year but due to major lack of funds it's not likely this year.

[purplepidjin]

If you can't afford to go there, maybe you could have a French evening next time she visits? Eat French bread and cheese, let her have some watered down red wine, nice tarte tatin, and everything has to be in French.

By French, I mean the kind of French my mum speaks, which is really just English in a French accent muddled together with whatever French words she can remember. 'Tis tres amusant!

Then watch a French film like Amelie or Madeline

If nothing else, watching you and DP struggling with Franglais will cheer her up no end - although, as you say you speak French you may have to "forget" some of it int he name of humour

[tabulahrasa]

I have a similar problem with my DS (he has Asperger's and a speech and language disorder), it's completely ridiculous to have him doing French when he can't pronounce the words, spell them or remember the grammar - but the school will not let him do something else instead

I have to admit that instead of helping him with French I've let him know that I agree with him that he shouldn't be doing it, that I don't care what his final results are and that we're concentrating on things that will be more useful to him

I know languages are useful usually, but English will be much more useful for him, lol

[bruffin]

I had the same problem with DS but he had to learn French and German and was in top set, so huge pressure to perform ie detention if they didn't get 70% in tests.
I spoke to the SENCO and she got them to take the pressure off.
He actually found german either, and he is now doing german for gcse and really enjoys it.

[Kez100]

My feeling is that a dyslexic child should be give the chance with languages in a positive way first. My son is severely dyslexic but has a flair for languages! I was as surprised as anyone. He can barely write in English! Maybe it's more phonetic? He spells English phonetically rather than properly.

Anyway, if he had struggled because of his Dyslexia, then I wouldn't think it a sensible GCSE choice. However, at KS3 then I think it's important to do, as it's not much curriculum time and not everyone can be good at everything, and it gives the child a chance to see if they are good at languages.

I have since found a dyslexic adult who went to Oxford and studied languages - so it is important for them to get a chance.

[penguin73]

Completely agree Kez - one class I teach is 50% dyslexic and they love it and are making excellent progress.

With linguascope make sure you are using the right level (you can swap and change between them all) and that you spend lots of time on the 'presentation' with the sound on before attempting the games.

You might also want to check any Disney/Pixar DVDs you for the language subtitle options - if available try watching in French with the English subtitles on and vice versa so she can get used to the sound of the language. Not sure about Amelie for a 12yo - check it out yourself first - but there are some other good options such as The Triplets of Belleville and Belleville Rendez-vous.

Also look at bbc languages, some good things on there and she might prefer the grammar in that format rather than in a book/on a piece of paper. TBH if she is definitely going to drop it I wouldn't worry too much about the granmar, focus on comprehension and speaking and her enjoyment of it. What text book does she use?

[FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop]

It is called Metro 1, the blue one. It's on amazon. No idea if it's any good as I've never seen it.

Emailed DSD some questions last night and her first reply just basically said "can't do it :( it was easier at your house, all the words are jumbled up and I'm frustrated"

:( :( :(

I gently encouraged her to just pick out a few words to translate which she did. Don't know where to go from here though.

She wants to come over more, and DH and I planned for her staying during the week (she could easily get the bus to school from here - there are kids on our road who go there anyway) but her mum said no she's really preventing anything we try and do to help. Sorry rather going off topic there.

[IndigoBell]

How much is she struggling in the rest of her subjects? If this is her only weak subject then maybe fair enough, but TBH if she is struggling in lots of subjects I'd be very tempted to ignore French and work on other subjects instead.

There is no way my DD will be able to learn another language, and I don't think it's fair to make her when I know she can't do it.

[FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop]

She struggles with everything to various degrees, as everything involves a bit of reading and writing, but she enjoys science and is doing ok at maths. She's really come out of her shell at secondary though and does enjoy school.

Definitely not focussing on French - really just want her to do ok. DH did reassure her that it's ok not to find everything easy, but DSD was really upset :( she is a very conscientious girl and is not happy with just giving up on it and accepting another 2 years of poor grades IYSWIM.

[IndigoBell]

I would speak to the SENCO. They may be able to either remove her from French or put her in an easier set, or something.

She doesn't need a diagnosis of dyslexia. If the school require that they'll have to get their Ed Psych to assess her.

[penguin73]

I use Métro 1 - if you PM details of the unit she is on at the moment I can e-mail you some resources I use with my dyslexic students which might help if you would like me to.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

I like the idea of immersion - watching children's French language programmes (ie the ones they'd watch in France as children) - I bet you could find some on YouTube.

A couple of those a day would have her at least conversational, and then she can work on writing it down and reading it later. At least she'll be able to understand what the teacher is saying.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

[nickelbabysnatcher]

[FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop]

Thanks all :)

Am emailing tonight with a few sentences for her to try and translate or just pick out a few words. I made up a reading test (the kind where there is a paragraph and then multiple choice Qs) and she did well on that :)

Have PMd you penguin.