streaming in secondary schools

[browneyese]

i need someone to advise me of how i can deal with the two tier education system at my daughter's school. i have always been aware of it and never known how do handle it. as she gets older the gap in what she is learning in her average set for English and what her friend is learning in the top set is getting ever wider. for instance although both sets 'are doing shakespeare' my daughter hasn't read the tempest although she is doing it; she's played a bingo game around the theme of the tempest, and watched an animation film version of it. meanwhile her friend has read midsummer night's dream, written a 5 page essay about it; my daughter has been required to read one book in 3 years, her friend, this term, has done the shakespeare assignment and has had to read the curious incident of the dog in the night time and is now reading great expectations in class. whenever i've approached the school about this sort of issue they've reacted like a brick wall. They have an agenda which concentrates on educating what they perceive as the brighter kids and the other kids education suffers. i wouldn't mind if my cdaugther could repeat an academic year like they do in other countries, however she and her friend have the same amount of years to complete their education but one will have have studied shakespeare properly and the other won't and all at the discretion of a teacher's decision.

[MrManager]

There must have been some examination process where the sets were decided - is your daughter not very academic?

[Goblinchild]

How old is your daughter, is she in KS4?
Is she doing the Foundation level rather than the Higher Tier for GCSE?
Streaming is about giving a differentiated curriculum to meet the needs of the individual child, so do you feel your child's abilities are being underestimated, and that she is capable of accessing and achieving a higher grade?

[Cammelia]

Browneyese I really understand your frustration here - you are feeling that your dd is not getting a good enough education - I don't really understand this sort of "streaming"

I suppose that if the school is not responding to you as you would wish then your options would be to either change schools (easier said than done) or to do lots of educational stuff at home (again easier said than done if you work, for example)

[ravenAK]

The first thing is to see your dd's teacher, & clarify a) the level of differentiation for her set & b) why your dd isn't in a higher set.

FWIW, I would have far higher expectations of an 'average' set. They'd be expecting Cs at GCSE & they'd be getting their butts worked off in order to achieve it, whilst the Head hassled me endlessly to achieve it.

Is it setting (she's in an ability group for each subject) or streaming (she's in an ability stream which determines all her sets)?

It's honestly quite unlikely that your dd's school have 'written off' all but the highest flyers; their results depend, if anything, on getting solid GCSEs for the less able.

You really need to discuss it with the school.

[MrManager]

Are the sets about 50/50, or just the few likely destined for Oxbridge?

[ravenAK]

It really doesn't work like that, Mr Manager.

Across comprehensive education, more able students are almost invariably taught in larger groups.

For example - I teach in a smallish secondary, with year groups of 180ish. It would be usual to have 2 lots of 30 in sets 1, 2 x 28 in sets 2, 2 x 20 in set 3 & 2 x 12 in sets 4.

Less able students need more individual help from teachers & ETAs, hence smaller groupings.

Your 'Oxbridge prospects' will be fine in a big group; 15 out of the 30 in my current year 11 top set are aiming for A*s, & I'm quietly confident.

You may be thinking of additional classes designed to stretch the most able; for example, I teach Latin GCSE to 17 kids after school.

State schools' biggest benchmark is the % of grade Cs, not the Oxbridge entrant. It's the middle ability where you'll find the hardest work by staff.

[tingletangle]

I don't think it is necessarily true that the hardest work is with the middle set. Middle sets are usually more challeneging but I have as much focus on my top set to ensure they all get As and A* as I do on my middle set. As a school internally we are not interested in %A-C but students meeting targets.

[Talkinpeace]

OP
The setting is not done at the discretion of a teachers decision.
It is done on the basis of regular testing and monitoring of each pupil.
DD's school has an intake of nearly 300 per year. Every subject is split into 5 sets.
DD happens to be in set 1. One of her oldest friends is in set 3. The way they understand the tasks is different.
The friend would find the sort of essays on shakespeare that set 1 do (and that we all had inflicted on us 30 years ago) a total drag and a bore. So the teacher gives them an introduction to the nature of the plays and the time and instills a curiosity which many in the lower sets do not naturally have.
In the case of your DD, chances are she will come out of school with an interest in theatre that could have been killed stone dead by "discussing the philosophical place of Caliban in Tudor society"

By all means chat to the school and ask how they do their setting and whether all sets will get to see the play live on stage.
But the fact that we have all been to school does not make us capable as modern teachers.

[freerangeeggs]

Repeating years has been found by studies to have a negative effect on children's attainment.

I don't think your daughter's school is necessarily paying more attention to the 'brighter' kids; at least, from the information you've given I cannot make that judgment.

I for one put probably even more preparation into work for my bottom sets than for the top kids.

If you're worried you should contact the school to discuss her progress and what she'll be covering.

[browneyese]

Hi thanks for all the comments my daughter never did sats she went to a Spanish school when she was in primary school, which was quite academic and she held her own. Because she never did sats her secondary school relied on a cats score which was average and set her targets for end of KS3 very low. Although she was reaching level 4/5 as soon as she arrived there in year 7 the teachers saw no need to move her targets any higher. I don't agree that one can make so many assumptions about what a child will in interested in in that only set one children will find the philosophical aspects of Caliban's character in tudor britain interesting. i think that is very patronising towards many other kids. most kids will find any lesson interesting specially at this age where they should be questioning issues about society history the world we live in. The teacher can makes these issues interesting with debates and philosophical analysis. Very few teenagers are incapable of abstract thought and understanding intellectual ideas. playing bingo is boring for kids this age and shows a contempt towards their ability. as to repeating everywhere in the world kids repeat in schools its completely normal and overall leads to everyone achieving a better education. i repeated in spain, and went on to do a BA and masters at UCL. If i'd stayed in England I was predicted to get 3 gces in Spanish and French and perhaps English . University wouldn't have been an option. I think the UK education system makes to many radical decisions about a child's ability at too young an age and pigeon holes children so that they are engineered to achieve that which the education system expects from them from a very early age.

[mummytime]

Browneyes, I'm sorry but your experience is with one English school. Schools have changed a lot since I (and you I expect) were at school. Most schools expect far more than the top 5-10% of their pupils to go to University.

My sons lowly set for English is doing far more demanding work than you describe in his study of MacBeth, and in year 7 he was studying Beowulf.

[inkyfingers]

I totally agree with Browneyese' frustration about expectations at the patronising crap given to middle ability pupils (not sure where yours is, but agree that level 4/5 is middle). But so what - why not expect more from pupils who may well be motivated and interested in English and get a GCSE A grade out of hard work not innate brilliance? Watch the film and read the fun bit of Act 2 and draw a poster advertising the play.... blah blah, makes me mad.

[CardyMow]

You think that's bad, you should see the drivel that is ut forward as 'English' work for the lowest set. My DD has learning difficulties, granted. But watching dvd clips of the Shining, and other 18 rated horror movies, when she is only 12yo, in order to 'enthuse the children' wrt writing their own horror story...let's just say that the teaching methods for the very lowest set leaves wayyyy more to be desired than the methods used for the middle set!

(And yes, I have complained, on 3 occasions, to both the Head of English department and the HoY about the unsuitability of this. To no avail.)

[freerangeeggs]

"I don't agree that one can make so many assumptions about what a child will in interested in in that only set one children will find the philosophical aspects of Caliban's character in tudor britain interesting. i think that is very patronising towards many other kids. most kids will find any lesson interesting specially at this age where they should be questioning issues about society history the world we live in."

I wish this were the case! You've clearly never met my middle-set Y11s, bless their apathetic little hearts :)

In an ideal world all kids would be excited about learning but the fact is that they don't always come to us that way and they have to be encouraged to want to learn. Learning games etc are a good way of doing that, and I'm sure your daughter was prepped before she was given a bingo game to play! I think I know which animated version she'll have watched, too, and the language in it is abridged but not simplified. Much more effective than sitting for four weeks listening to other children stumbling over the words - it's a great visual aid and will help your daughter to understand the story. In fact I'd be surprised if the top set didn't watch it too.

I don't know any teachers who only care about the top sets. I love my bottom and middle sets to bits and I work my socks off to make sure that they get the best grades they can.

By all means though, get in touch with the school if you're concerned.

Level 4/5 sounds like a middle set to me too, and CATS scores are more reliable than SATS.