Year 7 - appeals help please

[Kaisi]

Hi there,
I noticed a thread with regard to appeals, and thought that perhaps someone might be able to guide me in the right direction with regard to the hell I have been through or at least set my mind at ease.

We are Brits we moved abroad 18 months ago from the UK for many reasons. We were told the education system out here was superior to the uk and so much better, and off we went. However it certainly is not better at all, I could go on all day about the problems, but anyway... As much as we would love to stay, we felt our childrens education and future prospects to be more important than anything and returning for their education and future was priority. Our eldest is supposed to start secondary this September and we felt that it probably best we left to come back to the UK, so that he could start when everyone else begins secondary school etc etc.

Anyways, back in May I telephoned the school, was told to call admissions in county council, which I did, had to wait almost two weeks for someone to return my call and that was with me calling every four days querying.

I got a return call, explained the situation, that if it helped, I would come back to UK immediatley, but wondered if it was worth it, and if we should let him finish school here! My son would have been able to spend 3 months in the village primary school, which would have by their policies meant he was catchment to the secondary school we wanted, although was advised that it would make no difference as the secondary school was full. (although I dont believe this was correct.) I was told I had to fill in forms for application stating schools etc, which I did. Unfortunatly only putting the one school down. (mainly due to transport from the village and the other catchment school, well, its had two suicides from bullying recently! Hence my fear of writing it as second choice)

I explained reasons:
Transport issues.
Catchment area
Cousins that go to the school.
The village we live ins children all go to that school and our son knows them, and familiarity would help him transition back in to uk schooling.
That there is support there for him, that would help guide him back
etc

They wanted to know our UK address, which I gave, my father in law has a flat which is empty and has offered us to live there, as money will be tight on our return until we find jobs etc. However was told this wasnt applicable, and that family is not allowed, etc etc, then I was told I had to send a letter confirming he allowed us to stay there and also his bank statement (father in law) which I got faxed and emailed. As far as I knew that was all they needed. Anyways, I eventually get a letter stating we hadnt been considered for any schools due to not being resident in the UK. (this was on the third rounds) I was furious, after all the documentation they had wanted and told me to produce over the weeks to be considered and now, (NOT RESIDENT NO SCHOOL)
The department contraidicted themselves on many occasions, telling me not to rush back, etc etc wouldnt make any difference, and yet it did.

Eventually getting through to this woman, which is nie on impossible! I was told perhaps I should think about getting a legal rental agreement with my father in law. So off we went again to get this done. Sent this through and was told now, ok you will be considered now for the fourth rounds in July!!!!

Anyways, I decided to put an appeal in for the first school regardless, flew back to the UK at a massive cost last week to attend. The school stated they were full, and over by 12 appeals already, although there was mention that in earlier appeals, the headteacher had turned up at the appeal and said, yeh, we accept them all! The appeals felt school had a case, and had to go to the second rounds. Bear in mind I had created a 23 page letter and document of evidences with my contacts with admissions, and all the problems transport issues, friends etc, and felt that we were a unique case, out of the ordinary. In the second round, I was asked to state my case. I explained all the reasons etc, and questioned the schooling about previous years appeals, and that surely they could accept another due to the circumstances. I was also asked what mine and my husbands jobs were before we left the UK!!!! IS THIS RELEVANT?? and also what we intended to do workwise when we got back to uk???? Luckily I have a good work history, as does my husband, but surely this wasn't justified? I cannot get my head around the relevance of these questions.

Anyways, as I left the appeal I travelled 3 and half hours back to Gatwick, absolutely drained, told I would be given answer by afternoon, at 4.45pm, I had to call as nothing had come through via email or phone, and was told we had been declined a place. I was gobsmacked. My son devastated. Reasons for decline:
The factors below were not sufficient to override the prejudice which would occur if further students were admitted. and whilst they had the upmost sympathy for your circumstances, your appeal for CHILD to be allocated a place at.... should not be allowed.

#Comments relating to educational standards of school
Comments regarding transport
Family circumstances, particularly you living abroad and shortly returning
Your son will have family members at the school in september,
Practical difficulties if your son was to attend alternatice school
Ease of access to school
Your sons interests both in and outside of school.

I asked the Clerk to Appeal, why was I questioned about employment, that I felt it shouldn't be judged in anyway on what someone does for a living, he told me they just wanted to get a better picture, and know more about us and my son, which I might add, they didn't bother asking much about him at all.

Anyways, I am at my wits end. I tried telephoning admissions asking if I am still being considered for fourth rounds? to be told time again, they will make a note on the system as they cant put me through directly to the department, which is untrue and they never ring back. I phoned again two days ago, and surprisingly there was a lovely guy who understood the distress of not knowing anything, and the costs of calling. He came back to me with information that I would be receiving a letter in next couple of days with regards to a school placement.

Yesterday I got letter offering another school completely, in a totally different area, where non of the local children will attend, as well as the fact, we left the particular town due to past troubles there in our marriage, which Im happy to say we got through. (awkward, and not something I really wanted to bring up at appeals)

So now, I don't know what to do.

The school pleaded they couldn't take anymore, and quoted in the refusal letter: admission numbers the circulation through schools etc, I stated at the appeal, they had taken more appeals in the previous years.

The other school in the catchment area, is the school with the suicides, I am told its full also and would have to appeal. To be honest, I felt so demeaned at the appeal, I just don't feel I could go through that all again.

Sorry its so long, but I tried to explain as much as I could and even now is as brief as can be.

I have 12 days to accept the placement or decline, and its not possible for him to go there due to these past issues, but the only two other choices are full, and already been turn't down for one by appeal. Is there any hope???

Hoping for any guidance, advice.

[prh47bridge]

Regarding your appeal, I don't think it was appropriate for the panel to ask about your work situation. I don't see any relevance. It naturally raises the question as to whether the panel factored this into their decision in some way, which would clearly be wrong.

Having said that, if the summary of your case given in the decision letter is correct it doesn't sound like you had a terribly strong case, despite the 23 page letter. Educational standards of the schools are not relevant in an appeal. In most cases transport, family circumstances, having siblings at the school, practical difficulties and ease of access are also not relevant. That leaves your son's interests which may have been relevant depending on what was said.

But then we have to look at the way this case was handled by the admissions department. It certainly sounds like you were messed around. You think you were given bad advice. I know you say you don't believe this but when you spoke to the LA in May the school was almost certainly already full up for Y7 admissions in September. The initial allocation letters would already have gone out. For a popular school they would have offered every place available. If that is the case, rushing back would not have made any difference. You still wouldn't have got a place. By May it was far too late for being in the catchment area to get you an immediate place - the deadline for that would have been last year. However, moving back would almost certainly have got you higher up the waiting list so, if children have been admitted from the waiting list, it is possible you may have got in that way had you moved early. You may therefore have suffered some disadvantage as a result of the advice from the LA. The contradictory answers also are not good.

Going back again to the decision letter, there is nothing in it to indicate that the appeal panel considered whether or not the LA had operated the admissions process correctly. As it seems you complained about that, this is a serious omission.

I find some of your post confusing which makes it difficult to offer advice - sorry. However, you can refer the case to the Local Government Ombudsman if you want. They will not rehear the appeal but they will be interested if they think the appeal process hasn't been followed or their has been maladministration in the admissions process. It is unlikely to get your son admitted but may get you a fresh appeal. You could make the following points:

• inappropriate questioning by the panel
• apparent failure of the panel to consider if the admissions process had been administered correctly
• you believe you received contradictory and poor advice from the LA which disadvantaged you

Turning to your current situation, I wouild accept the offered place. If you turn it down the LA is under no obligation to find a place elsewhere for your son. It means you have a definite place whatever else happens. I would also make sure you are on the waiting list for your preferred school, move back to the UK as soon as possible and provide the LA with any evidence they want regarding your address. That will make sure you are in the right place on the waiting list. However, there is no way of knowing how likely it is that you will get a place through the waiting list.

[admission]

You are obviously in a difficult situation coming back to the UK and the LA have not helped very much at all with all the problems that you highlighted.

However the appeal process is very clear. The appeals for all those wanting a place at your first preference had obviously already taken place and 12 had been admitted. The problem is that the panel hearing your case would have been faced with a situation of the school being 12 over the Admission Number. Under normal circumstances I would as a panel member have been quite reluctant to admit more, it would have had to be very very good circumstances to do so.

The problem is that you know and the second panel knew that the headteacher had effectively circumvented the LA case in the first appeal by saying he would take all the pupils. My reaction to that would be you took 12 why not 13 and without a very good reason i would probably have admitted your child. However I don't know all the circumstances and the panel were perfectly at liberty to make the decision that they made.

There are three areas that concern me. Firstly could you have been in a situation to have been an appealant at the first set of appeals if the LA had not been so off-putting. I suspect that the answer could well be yes from your post. Under those circumstances the probablity would have been that you would have been offered a place. That I would consider maladministration by the LA.

The second area of concern is the questions about jobs. That is not acceptable unless they were relevant, for instance you were in the services returning from abroad.

The third area of concern is that a part of the panel deliberations on the appeal should have been about what the LA had offered you in the way of a place. That can not have been considered as you did not know. If you had known you could have stated your reasons why this school was unacceptable, which may have swayed the panel to admit if there were no obvious alternatives.

If you can put together a timeline for the first contacts with the LA that were well before the first appeal dates then I would be tempted to contact the LGO and say this is maladministration in your opinion and throw in the other factors as well just to make the LGO think this may be not an isolated mistake.

[curlymom]

Hi, I am sorry you are having so much trouble, schhol admissions are getting very complicated nowadays. I recently succeeded in winnign an appeal for my son and I empathise with what you are going through. i would say that your case would be much stronger once you are resident in the UK again. I would imagine the questions about employment were not to judge you but to see if arrangements had been made and if you were really serious about returning home. The problem is, even if you are within the catchment, once places are allocated new places are created. On the plus side, once you are here, if you are close to the school you may find you are at the top of the waiting list so with some luck you will get a place quickly.
from my own experience, the appeals process was vey stressful for me, not just the event but the anxiety of waiting for the appeal, waiting for the results etc. I would say, once you are back in Uk your position will be better if you appeal. A book called ' How to win your school appeal' by Ben Rooney is fab and got me through mine. Best of luck.

[curlymom]

Sorry my mistake above. I meant once places are allocated no new places can be created. Sorry.

[LadyLapsang]

Are you still intending to move back to the UK even if your child does not get allocated a place at your preferred school?

I would guess they may have asked you about employment to see how serious you were about moving back, if you or DH had a job to start it would be obvious that you intended to move back regardless.