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sex dilemma

(206 Posts)
sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:11:05

Hi everyone,

I am a married parent so is simply so lonely. I met a married man recently and his is just adorable. He listens to me, is affectionate, is a gentleman. We talked about our lives and our partners and both miss a sex life. We both want the same thing- to enjoy each other maybe once a week, but remain in our relationships. He is unselfish and just wants to satisfy me, which is so refreshing and new.

I am just so tempted to say yes and enjoy an afternoon of love making. It has been so long and and i dearly want to be help and to experience some fun. He has offered to make it all about me- I can control him and use him for my pleasure.

He really is a sweetie and a gentleman and I just want him so badly. Am I a bad girl for wanting this so so much?

abbierhodes Tue 23-Feb-10 00:17:10

Why can't you get sex from your own partner?

Fizzfiend Tue 23-Feb-10 00:19:17

No you're not bad. But I am because I would say just do it. I'm going to be villified tho I'm sure.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:20:47

he and i don't have a sex life and haven't for about 5 years. we are close and friendly and the marriage is good, but there is no physical side. this new guy just presses my buttons. we are due to meet for a walk tomorrow

JeremyVile Tue 23-Feb-10 00:21:15

Yes.
You're a very naughty, dirty girl indeed. What you need is a damn good spanking...

Is that the sort of thing you were after?

BrahmsThirdRacket Tue 23-Feb-10 00:22:13

Tell us about your marriage. I understand how you feel, but I personally don't at the moment because I am happy with my relationship. Why aren't you? It's only by looking at yourself and your marriage that you can work out what you really need, and how you might be able to get that from your own marriage rather than risk hurt to both your partners, or whether there is any point to you both being in your relationships.

ACretinoidPsychoanal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:23:16

Why don't you turn it round.....

How would you feel if your DH shagged another bird? and met her every week to do so?

hobbgoblin Tue 23-Feb-10 00:23:48

Bad girl?

Come on

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:25:24

the danger is that i go 5, 10 15 yrs without sex, and that makes me so upset. i am 35 and i will only be young and thin for so long. he makes me feel good, and so i just want to seize the moment.

i emailed him what i want and he emailed me what he wants. he is not being selfish, and has offered to play my role play.

it just seems so good and what i need right now

abbierhodes Tue 23-Feb-10 00:25:25

I think you should sort out your own marriage rather than wreck someone else's.

You know the answer to your 'dilemma', you just want us to tell you it's OK.

If your relationship can't be fixed, end it, and find someone who is available.

hobbgoblin Tue 23-Feb-10 00:25:42

Sounds like you don't need or want a sweetie or a gentleman to me. You want a long hard, down and dirty fuck. So, pick someone else maybe?

electra Tue 23-Feb-10 00:26:15

No, you are not bad.......but it will get more complicated. The more you shag him, the more there is the potential for one or both of you to fall in love.

sighofunrequitedlust Tue 23-Feb-10 00:26:32

I find fizzfiend's post refreshing.

People do, you know, and quite often nothing bad comes of it.

But I don't think that's the mumsnet majority line.

GypsyMoth Tue 23-Feb-10 00:27:07

Lol ....... You're going for a walk tomorrow??

You control yourself now, won't you??

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:27:28

do i don't want it to be dirty. i want to feel loved and special. and i don't want him to grab- i want to control the moment

hobbgoblin Tue 23-Feb-10 00:29:59

It's been sleeting. It will be muddy. Rethink the walk. And when you find that special place where you can get a taste of this man's sweetness, I suggest you on top if you want control. He may grab yer tits though so beware.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:34:34

the deal over email was that i shaved for him and he would go down on me- no attention to be given to him.
so it is good for me and he has promised to go slow and i don't have to do anything for him.

am i just wrong to want this guy?

ACretinoidPsychoanal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:35:08

Are you purposely bypassing my question then? hmm

Just fuck him and be done with it.

Fuck your family and his eh.

JeremyVile Tue 23-Feb-10 00:35:53

If this is real, and your dh is witholding sex long term then go for it, fuck it. or him rather. Dodgy ground though, it will get messy.

JeremyVile Tue 23-Feb-10 00:36:30

Oh this is so a wind-up...

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:37:44

Yes you are wrong. Now go away.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:39:03

thanks for the sympathy! i am making a big choice here. my love life is important to me. i have cried about it, and have talked it through with friends. i do think it is time for me to have some fun.

ACretinoidPsychoanal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:40:36

Split up with your DH then, go for an 'unattached' man you bloody daft git.

Why the fuck do you want to get involved with a married man, and you being married too???????

ItsGraceAgain Tue 23-Feb-10 00:41:18

umm, Sophie: you rabbitted on about how sweet & gentlemanly the OM is, and how you want to feel loved not dirty etc ... and you're emailing each other with your sex fantasies and your "role-play".

So either you are a very confused lady, or you just want dirrty sex with a man who shares your kinks. He's no gentleman, that's for sure.

MN has already hated me for not thinking infidelity is worse than cannibalism - if you didn't sound so messed up, I'd say go for it.
But you do sound messed up.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:41:40

Sympathy for you? You must be joking. Sympathy for your husband and children, yes - sympathy for his wife and children, yes.

Just go away.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 00:42:08

for exactly those reasons- both of us are married and both of us are safe. the relationships and kids stay; it is just a fun and loving afternoon of sex on the table here. no commitment. that's what seems so attractive

ACretinoidPsychoanal Tue 23-Feb-10 00:43:08

So answer my question then....

Why don't you turn it round.....

How would you feel if your DH shagged another bird? and met her every week to do so?

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 00:45:39

If it was my husband you were talking to like this id beat the crap out of you to be honest.
Loved and special my arse , sureley you dont beleive his crap ?
He has " offered " to make it all about you? Sounds like he thinks hes doing you a favour.

I assume your dh knows nothing about this, and if so, thats not on. If your going to shag, he should have the same options.Is that ok with you ?

Why dont you go to counselling either alone, or with your dh to sort this out.?

Your gentlemanly sweetie married freind is a proven liar and a cheat, do not be that naive that you think hes not lying to you as well.

You say he misses a sex life.
Hes either
a, lying and regularly shags his wife
b, his wife stays away from him, either cos hes a cheat or a pig, or hes got a small cock and hes shit at it.

Why are you so eager to jump into bed with a man who openly states that his own wife doesnt like to have sex with him.

If you insist on getting a bit elsewhere, please do it with someone whos single. You have no buisness messing around with this mans family.

JeremyVile Tue 23-Feb-10 00:47:21

Would sex definitely be on the table?
You've already discused these logistics?

Whta kind of table is it?

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 00:52:48

I think this might be a wind up.

If its not, how on earth can you be certain he is safe?
For all you know he couldve been doing this for years, and so could his wife.

Re the kids and marriage stay,, i wouldnt bank on it. If i found an email like that his stuff would be on your lawn and he could lick your fanny every day .

Dont think your kids would like it though !

Anyway, im single, where abouts are you?
Depending what he looks like , Im sure i could reawaken your dhs interests. Perhaps he could lick my fanny for an afternoon !

You wouldnt mind would you?

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 01:02:49

Shouldnt laugh but i can just hear it, wind up or not

" I miss sex, my wife isnt interested because i cant do it properly. Perhaps i can do you a favour and lick your fanny for you ".

Post again when his wife finds the emails and beats the crap out of you.
Oh, she,ll probably send them to your parents as well along with everyone you know.

JodieO Tue 23-Feb-10 01:05:53

dignified why would his wife want to "beat the crap out of her" when HE is the one that promised to be faithful? Sorry I don't understand the logic of blaming the other person and not the partner.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 01:13:55

Theres no blaming the other person instead of the partner , id blame them both, him for being a cheating idiot, and her for having the nerve to knowingly stick her nose into my family.

JodieO Tue 23-Feb-10 01:17:27

Only one person has promised you anything though, your partner. There is where the blame lies, you can't "tempt" someone away unless they want to go.

I hope its a strong table

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 01:22:51

Dignified, absolutely.

Just because (the theoretical) she made no promises, doesn't mean she's entirely lacking in accountability!

JodieO Tue 23-Feb-10 01:25:05

EcoMouse she isn't the one you have to hold to any accountability though, only your husband.

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 01:25:54

I think the table ought to be as strong as a bridge.

PearlyDewdrop Tue 23-Feb-10 01:28:47

As 69 isn't your birth yr just thought I'd point out that unless this significant number has a different personal significance to you the whole situation is already a done deal cause your gagging for it!

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 01:38:47

JodieO, not in my opinion, as already stated.

Similarly, I wouldn't knowingly enter into a relationship with a man who already had a partner. Would you?

ohh but some bridges are not strong...and need extra support

you'll see!!

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 01:42:42

Brilliant! I do like to be able to put a face to a name grin

wink

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 02:04:37

I dont give a toss what shes promised me, she,d know full well ive got a family and yes, id have something to say about it, just like i would anyone else who caused my family pain and distress, in whatever way.

Other random people hurt us, hurt our children and our familys.
Do we ever say ah well, they never promised us anything so their not accountable if they knowingly break into our house / mug our kids / steal our car/ make our lives miserable ect cos they never promised us anything.

What sort of logic is behind the idea that a woman who gets into bed with someone elses husband is not jointly accountable for the break up of that family?

Would you not hold me responsible if i broke into your house, distressed your children, and disrupted their lives on the basis i never promised you anything?
Bollocks.

And Jodie, yes, people can be tempted away, its a common theme on these boards. Often when affairs are discovered and analysed it is often down to something within the cheater that caused the affair,, depression, vulnerabilty, low self esteem, inability to resolve problems , whatever, its hardly the wonderfullness of the new woman, who usually gets dumped like a hot turd when wife finds out.

People love this idea that if he wasnt happy he wouldnt have done it because it makes them feel better and makes the cheated on person feel like shit.

The thing is, if you hold this beleif that men wouldnt do it if they wasnt happy, do you also beleive that if you had such a man, youd better keep him happy, otherwise he will have an affair?

Op if this isnt a wind up, your not better than the wife, nor more funny or interesting nor do you have a better tasting fanny. You are available and a sordid cheap secret, thats it.

gtamom Tue 23-Feb-10 05:15:28

Why don't you and your husband have sex?
Why can't you get tarted up for your husband, and have sex with him?
Is there something wrong with him? Do you love your husband?
If he found out you were carrying on with someone else, what would he say/do?

This guy you want to have sex with, how long have you known him? Have you ever met in person before, or will this be the first time you meet in the flesh?

flimflammum Tue 23-Feb-10 06:22:49

Hairy handed trucker from Wisconsin

Petitioner Tue 23-Feb-10 06:45:34

I have a friend who has been in this exact situation (I don't know the detail about the sex but the 'he makes me feel special' theme is there)

She started off feeling in control. It was about wild sex and theirs was a sexless marriage. It was about two sexy people not hurting anyone else but getting what they needed whilst protecting their families from a break up. Exciting, loving (but not threatening to the marriage.... except she did love him because it's easy to fall in love with someone who makes you feel like this)

Today: all children know. All friends know. Most have disowned her. Her son called a her a whore last night. Her new man claims she chased him and has scuttled back to the wife that didn't understand him. The wife is traumatised. The kids are damaged. The husband is distraught and my friend is drinking too much and neglecting her children because she's so wrapped up in how she can get her fix of sex from a man who doesn't care about her.

Open your eyes
I didn't make this up

Fix your marriage or leave it.

Lunatic Tue 23-Feb-10 08:14:42

It will be lovely for a while then will go Pete Tong large.

If you go for it, enjoy it while it lasts and get ready for smashing into the pain wall.

Better option in my opinion is to say to hubby that you really need a right good servicing before cobwebs take hold in your (insert personalised name of appropriate part) & would prefer to go to the Main Dealership rather than find a cheap & nasty garage but it's for him to choose. And choose NOW. I bet he'll firstly shit a brick then head out quick for a bumper pack of Viagra & red bull (forgetting the massage essential oil & candles probably but you can fine tune later)

No-one talks like this

you are clearly a weirdo-wanking-troll hmm

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 08:24:01

wind up

next !

Anniegetyourgun Tue 23-Feb-10 09:37:21

I took a violent dislike to the OP when she (?) said "i am 35 and i will only be young and thin for so long".

Some men prefer a body with something to get hold of rather than the feeling of a bag of bones grinding together, you know! And, as they say, there's many a good tune played on an old fiddle.

ps SGB would remind us that monogamy is not for everybody and that one partner withholding sex from the other for years is unkind and unfair. However I am fairly sure she would also say that sneaking round to get it behind your partner's back is not the way to go.

warthog Tue 23-Feb-10 10:20:05

clear it with your dh first. if he's happy, go ahead. if not, then fix your relationship.

Dominique07 Tue 23-Feb-10 10:44:08

Yep Talk to your Husband. Tell him you need affection and love and sex.
Tell him if you can't get it from him you're breaking up with him and you can arrange access to the children.
See what he says. Maybe he wants to break up.

minipie Tue 23-Feb-10 10:48:06

Oh come on y'all, this is clearly a troll.

abedelia Tue 23-Feb-10 11:02:24

It's not "safe" and "just fun" - and you only have his word for the fact he doesn't have sex with his wife (the oldest line in the book, btw, alongside the fact that she 'doesn't understand me'). Chance are she loves him, they have sex several times a week and she is blissfully ignorant of the fact her husband *likes to take advantage of vulnerable women*.

Thought of that? BTW, a 'gentleman' wouln't cheat on his wife. But you justify what you've already decided to do any way you like, love.

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 11:05:58

Leave it girls, this is a wind up. She/He/It is not going to answer your questions or even read all your responses.

She wanted her little wind-up and she got it.

You're just feeding it now. Report thread then leave.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 11:37:49

I think you may be right Rhubarb but I just wanted to say how cruel it is.

I am now in floods of tears, shaking and don't quite now what to do with myself. I am suffering the fall out from exactly this behaviour and this really got me.

Petitioner said:- Today: all children know. All friends know. Most have disowned her. Her son called a her a whore last night. Her new man claims she chased him and has scuttled back to the wife that didn't understand him. The wife is traumatised. The kids are damaged. The husband is distraught and my friend is drinking too much and neglecting her children because she's so wrapped up in how she can get her fix of sex from a man who doesn't care about her.

This has made me 100 times worse.

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 12:00:04

Well, I'm not at all sure she is a troll - I've been called one (I've name changed for this ) by one of the troll callers on this thread when I was involved in a real moral dilema.

I've been down this path a couple of times now and it doesn't work. Most of us can't help getting emotionally involved, then it ends badly. The pattern someone has mentioned above of a few weeks of joy and excitement followed by being accused of pursuit is par for the course. The guy you thought of as a prince turns out to be a (big fat) frog. You spend 2 weeks being very happy, 3/4 weeks wondering why, 3 months being devastated and in recovery - it isn't worth it when you add up the costs/rewards.

The oral sex thing is very interested - i have twice thought that I was onto something with a new lover because they seemed so very keen to offer it - then I realised it is probably the first thing to go in a matrimonial relationship that is failing sexually, and the one thing that most women long for to feel really loved and accepted - so Bingo - if he is trading on that I think he is really a player.

The OP may need to do this to truly learn and understand these matters, but it will cause pain, if only to her.

Just a point - if you have an OH who spends lots of time on sport, neglects you, falls asleep in front of telly, shows little affection and devotes himself to causes outside the home why is that viewed as normal and OK and yet meeting up once a week or so for some enjoyable sexual activity in as responsible way as you can is viewed with outrage and derision? It seems to me the former is far more reprehensible than the latter.

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 12:10:26

Don't understand Karmann, enlighten me please.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 12:14:08

Sorry for any confusion - in a terrible state right now.

I am suffering from the fall out of exactly this kind of thing, i.e. my OH and OW and what Petitioner said is exactly what's happening now.

Casual sex with married people is never uncomplicated. It hurts everyone involved.

OrmRenewed Tue 23-Feb-10 12:15:25

Why can't you have sex with your partner? And even if there is a good reason for that would he know about this arrangment? And regardless of that, why does this bloke's partner not matter? I suspect she'd have an opinion?

If none of this matters to you why ask for opinions? Go ahead and take the consequences?

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 12:16:16

Ah, so you are the wife?

Yes well, I do think this is a troll and they really have no idea how much they hurt people by getting their childish kicks.

Which is why it's surely better to report and leave than fuel the thread?

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 12:21:40

Yes I am the wife. And I agree with leaving this thread but just wanted to point out how hurtful this kind of wind up is.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 12:27:04

you ok karmann ?

I have seen you give valuable advice on other threads and you don't deserve this. Please don't let a fantasist like this wind you up. They get their kicks from it.

how did the walk go? did you find a big enough table in the woods?

hope you found your bridge too, now please stay there

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 12:32:40

Thanks for asking. Have to admit I am not in good shape right now but hopefully will get better. Got a friend coming over.

I think the valuable advice has come in calmer times. Thanks again - it's much appreciated. It's a sick way to get kicks, especially on a forum invaluable to help people in difficult situations.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 12:39:22

yup sad

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 12:39:53

Sorry to hear this Karmann. People just don't think and the way the posts were so cold and selfish, it must have hurt thinking that could be real.

The fact that she actually had someone agree with her too.....

Not worth your energies. Yes these people do exist in real life but this thread is an example to how little respect they get. I hope you can take some comfort in that.

Malificence Tue 23-Feb-10 12:49:33

Whether a troll post or not, it just proves that there are plenty of absolutely vile people out there.

There have been some really horrible threads on MN this past few days, not just this board either, while I'd normally get stuck in, I'm dealing with huge loss and grief and guilt at the moment, so I'm not really emotionally up to any argy bargy.

There are always consequences and fall out from a betrayal, it's like setting off a grenade, the fragments veer off in lots of directions, over which there is no control.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 12:56:01

you ok mal ?

Malificence Tue 23-Feb-10 13:07:38

I will be AF, thanks for your concern smile, I have DH to take care of me, even though it's his loss too.

If you look on my profile and pictures, you'll see why I'm so sad, it seems really inappropriate to talk about when there are so many people are having far worse times of it than me but I'm devastated, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that I've barely slept since Friday.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 13:31:33

Really sorry to hear about your loss Mal - I'm thinking of you.

Karmann, how awful for you that this idiot, whether real or trollish, has caused you such pain. I came across this last night just before bed - and I was incensed by both the post and some of the responses. Thank God for Dignified and although I know it hurt, Petitioner's input.

Had I read this even a few months ago, I would have felt similar to you. I'm glad you've got RL support. Do tell your H how this has made you feel too - these horrible flashbacks and triggers go on for a long while.

I am also getting increasingly irritated with posters who seem to think that an affair is right in some circumstances - or justifiable as a punishment for a partner's behaviour. For Christ's sake, there is always an alternative choice, but of course that usually means having less money - or perhaps working for a living angry.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 13:38:50

aww, mal

am assuming your pet has died, that can hit you very hard if he/she was a long-treasured member of the family x

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 14:06:01

WEll I think affairs are right in some circumstances, even if they are fraught with problems. yes, some men lie, but I have met two who have most definately been denied sex for 10 years by women who expect them to carry on as if nothing was wrong - and go without. There are far worse things than seeking comfort with a kindred spirit. The main thing these unfaithful spouses mentioned on here have got wrong is making if possible for their spouses to find out and get upset.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 14:12:11

Oh and how do you know Victorine that these men had been denied sex for 10 years - did you occupy their marital bedrooms simultaneously for all that time?

As for the only thing the betrayers did wrong was getting caught, well words fail me shock

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 14:14:40

Oh fuck off victorine.

If your marriage isn't right you either try to fix it or you leave. If the women are denying their husbands sex (we only have it from you that is the case and no doubt you have heard that from the men in question so it must be true hmm) then surely the right thing to do would be to try and work on that issue. If it cannot be fixed then they could at least be honest with their spouses.

Carrying on with another married woman (or even a single woman) is deceitful and dishonest. If the wives really didn't care what their husbands did, then the husbands wouldn't bother keeping it a secret would they?

But once affairs are found out (and they generally are) it causes heartbreak and devastation to families.

There is no justification for them. It's not so much the shagging of others you see, but the betrayal, the lies, the deceit. No woman or man deserves to be treated in that way. It's disrespectful and breathtakingly selfish. So you go off back to live in your own little world where everyone shags around and is happy - just so long as you stay there with your filthy little secrets.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 15:05:04

rhubarb, I think you should say what you really mean wink grin

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 15:25:57

not sure that most of the advice has helped, but i thought i was better to ask and get some honest opinion before making a choice.

if anyone cares we did meet today and it was good. he makes me feel special and i did feel loved for the first time in ages.

i don't want people judging me and i don't think i deserve such abuse. i opened my heart and asked for help and advice.

i feel vulnerable and people made me feel sad. this guy makes me feel good and why wouldn't anyone want that. i bet anyone else would have done the same thing.

BrahmsThirdRacket Tue 23-Feb-10 15:27:50

OP you can't expect other people, who have suffered bc of infidelity, feel the same way. Having seen some of the comments on this thread by people who have been made upset, it would have been in better taste to have not written that last post

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 15:32:56

Are you really saying it is OK to deprive your husband of sex for years on end? I could give you quite a lot of detail of the two people I am talking about, but it would only risk identifying them. One had had a very unsatisfactory strategy of odd flings about once every 2/3 years and was genuinely really sad and upset about what had happened. With the other I heard confirmation from wife chatting to someone about it to someone via a very circuitous link. Definately true in both cases, and I thought pretty unfair to be asked to put up with that

"Are you really saying it is OK to deprive your husband of sex for years on end"
well yes of course it is, what man who truely loved you would want you to do something you truely didnt want to?? If you dont like it/feel like its just the way it is. marriage should never be built on sex but on love and friendship and respect for each other.

Kiwinyc Tue 23-Feb-10 15:46:50

OP - you weren't asking for help, you were asking for validation of your behaviour from a bunch of strangers on the internet about what you're doing. A lot of these strangers have been badly hurt by partners who behaved badly so the opinions you're going to get are not what you're really looking for.

The best you can achieve here is that you've now made a slightly more informed decision... You might get away with it. And you might not.

ACretinoidPsychoanal Tue 23-Feb-10 15:47:11

You know what, just fuck off.

BrahmsThirdRacket Tue 23-Feb-10 15:49:46

No, it isn't OK to deprive someone of sex permanently for no reason. Sex isn't 'just' sex (if it is, you're not doing it right). It represents closeness, affection and communication. If you find yourself really unable to be intimate with them, then you should try to fix it in some way, possibly through counselling. Or if it is to do with the way they are treating you, not appreciating you etc, then explain it to them. I am not just talking about 'DH wanted sex but I was really tired last week/have just had a baby/have depression'. There are always going to be times when you don't want it. But when that goes on for several years with you making no attempt to combat it, it is going to cause the other person frustration and pain, and your relationship won't be the same. You owe it to them and yourselves to get it sorted.

Just because you're married, that doesn't justify behaving in any way you wish. However, having an affair isn't going to fix anything.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 15:55:41

sophie, does he have a verrrry long tongue ?

you silly, self-obsessed mare

Hope you feel better soon, Mal

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 15:57:21

so people come on here asking for advice and get called 'silly self-obsessed mares'?

nice

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 15:57:43

I don't give a shit about the state of the OP's marriage

this thread was weird and insensitive in the extreme (if it is real, which I doubt)

pixiestix Tue 23-Feb-10 15:59:27

"why wouldn't anyone want that?"

FFS did you actually read any of the responses?

Hairy arsed trucker....

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 16:01:17

ruby....only when they actually are silly, self-obsessed mares

let's have it right..

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 16:06:36

:-) but he's a sweetie and a gentleman and she's such a bad girl!
she just can't help it....

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 16:06:39

today was good for me and the first time i felt special for a very long time. so if people want to post abuse or bad language, i can just ignore them, and in the end it does not hurt me. I don't feel dirty or used or wrong, or any of those things. I feel warm and alive and happy, and that is that. I know there are consequences, but we both agreed that it was just our secret, and in the end it was just us doing something together and that's that.

I feel sorry for people who have got hurt, but their experience is not my experience and I am not going to feel dabd for me because of what happened to them. every circumstance is different and so me it was good, more than good. it made me feel warm and today I smiled a lot. That has to be a positive thing- happiness

x

drloves8 Tue 23-Feb-10 16:06:56

tis that trucker called bruce again? wink

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 16:08:11

IF you read my post you will clearly see that IF a woman is denying her husband sex (you heard on the grapevine??? Really???) then I suggested counselling for both. If she refused then I would advise that he was honest and open with her and if necessary, the relationship is brought to a close.

No-one denies their partner sex unless there is a very good reason behind it, i.e. depression, medical problem, etc.

You will also note that I said affairs are not just about sexual fulfillment. It is about the betrayal, the lying, the secrecy, the deceit. You have chosen to ignore all of these.

You say that if a party cannot get sex from within their marriage then it is within their rights to be deceitful and seek that fulfilment outside the marriage? Really? If you couldn't have sex for whatever reason, how would you react if, instead of talking about it, your dh went off and shagged someone else? Even worse, he shagged another married woman whose poor sod of a husband doesn't know either.

I shall repeat DECEIT, LIES, BETRAYAL are the reasons that marriages breakdown after an affair. Because marriages are all about RESPECT, COMMUNICATION, HONESTY.

If you aren't happy in your marriage then you'll either try to fix it, or if it cannot be fixed then you bring it to a close, allowing you and your partner to find happiness with someone else. You don't sneak around wrecking lives.

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 16:10:07

Good for you, Sophie - just hope it remains as good. I live in hope myself.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 16:13:07

thank you VictorineMeurent

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 16:13:38

sophie69 - I'm pleased you're happy. How lovely for you. Do you think your husband also deserves to feel happy? Do you think he's happy in that thing you call a marriage?

What about the other man's wife? Does she deserve to be made to feel the way you do? Or does her happiness not count?

You sound very selfish, putting your own needs before others. Your secret will be found out, I guarantee that. Your children will know, your parents will know, your friends will know. Your husband will be the victim whilst you become public enemy Number One and your lover boy will beat a hasty retreat.

You might think you can go on like this forever, just a dirty little secret shared. But I've been on Mumsnet long enough to know that dirty little secrets have a habit of being exposed sooner or later.

You are living a lie. You are lying to your husband, to your children, your family and your friends. Be honest. Tell your dh that you are not satisfied, at least give him the chance to sort it out. If he doesn't then end the marriage. Let him find someone new and you can do the same. Better that than live the rest of your life as a lie, constantly looking over your shoulder wondering if this is the day when it all gets exposed.

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 16:14:47

I wonder why you two married if you weren't prepared to see it through the long haul?

Or does lying come naturally to you?

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 16:20:48

Rhubarb you are so self righteous
How about if an affair is something that you both kept secret because you didn't want to hurt your respective partners? How about if it was something that you really needed to help you get through all the cr@p life throws at us?

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 16:21:10

Why so bitchy and personal Rhubarb? we all know that in real life these things can go on for years and not get found out. It is only those who are careless that get found out - usually through constant emails and texts etc. " Your secret will be fund out. I guarantee you that" . It ain't necessarily so. Lasting happines is of course an entirely different matter, I don't feel that these things always bring that.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 16:24:27

he held my hand today and cuddled me. It is not all about lying an cheating you know. it is not about deceit. it is about feeling good and special for a moment, even if it is not repeated. that meant i felt alive and happy for an afternoon.

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 16:28:23

Agree with you Victorine, these things are not always so black and white and secrets can be kept if they have to be

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 16:36:47

Ah, that old chestnut - that the spouse may never find out. What if your spouse does know Victorine, or heavily suspects? What if these mens' wives find out, even years after the event? In your shoes, I'd be constantly looking over my shoulder. Not a nice way to live. And how do you really feel, being intimate with a man you have cuckolded?

As for Ruby's "something to help you get by" - the stress and guilt of an affair are just about the worst antidote to having a crappy time in life.

Rhubarb isn't self-righteous, but she is standing up for the maxim that we should treat others how we would like to be treated ourselves.

I had hoped the OP had taken my advice and gone away last night, but I'm appalled to see she's back here and has the insensitivity to say it doesn't matter to her that other women have gone through pain. I guess that's how she's managing to dehumanise this chancer's wife - as long as it's not her pain, it doesn't matter angry.

The appalling thing is, while her H is no doubt working today to feed his family, his ghastly wife has been getting her kicks - in a park, or in his bed. And when this all hits the fan, he will lose custody of the children. Sickening.

TrippleBerryFairy Tue 23-Feb-10 16:37:18

I think sophie69 (if she's real) did not read any of the responses or if she did then she did not understand half of them.

All the tosh about 'he's a gentleman and I feel so special' indicates that sohpie is very naive and quite a silly girl. I bet her poor DH is one and only relationship in her life because she clearly hasn't got a clue.

'but we both agreed that it was just our secret'- clearly you think this agreement is going to last, don't you?

Oh dear...

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 16:40:23

Oh fuck off! Really, go and fuck right off. Because you've never been cheated on right? Well should that day come and you feel as though you've been shat on and spat at I hope you remember this conversation where no-one gets hurt.

Have you read the posters who have been very very hurt and upset by this thread? Do you not have any compassion for them? Or are you all so selfish that you couldn't give a shit, you're just happy to add to the hurt by telling them how happy you, the adulterer, is. Talk about rubbing it in!

If you had an ounce of decency you'd be honest. But let's face it, you don't want sex with your husbands or you'd be trying to achieve that, you want your bit on the side whilst hubby remains at home paying the bills.

So excuse me for sounding so personal and righteous, I'd rather that than be a selfish, disrespectful, lying cow.

OrmRenewed Tue 23-Feb-10 16:40:33

"i bet anyone else would have done the same thing. "

No they wouldn't. That's what most people here have been saying hmm

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 16:49:23

Are you inthe Victorian age Rhubarb and WWIFN? I don't think the situation in many famillies these dys is of husbands out at work to put food on the table or "paying the bills" - being able to find a bit of time to be with your lover doesn't mean you are not the main earner or don't have a profession or career. I'm afraid there are plenty of people who post on here who just want the world to conform to their norms - i.e. anyone who has sex outside their marriage will be found out, disgraced and unhappy forever ( no doubt tarred and feathered too if they had their way). No this isn't fairy-dairy fantasyland but the real world where sometimes not conforming to norms does work out for people - and we are not all horrid trollops, some of us are really quite nice people.

drloves8 Tue 23-Feb-10 16:50:15

sophie69 , if its all about feeling special and alive , wtf do you need a OM ? can you not do that for yourself? whats wrong with you that your happiness is dependent on other people? go see a shrink ,
have a word with yourself and get a grip.

skinsl Tue 23-Feb-10 16:59:05

You made promises to your husband when you married him. You are now breaking those promises and nobody deserves that.
You didn't say I promise to love you until I feel shit and need someone else to love me.
Fix it with your husband or start over if it isn't working. Don't do this to him and your om's wife while you are all still married.

Rhubarb Tue 23-Feb-10 17:13:39

Victorine dear, no I live in the moral world where you make promises to someone and keep them.

It doesn't matter if you are working or not, you got married and had children. Is it the norm for you to go running into the arms of another married man the minute something goes wrong?

It might be the cowards way.

A stronger person would try to fix what was wrong in their marriage first. You don't say that you tried to do that, was it not worth the effort? Are you staying together for the sake of the kids? Oh how noble of you!

What about the married man? What about his wife and kids? Or do they simply not figure?

Secrets really do have a nasty habit of being leaked out. Tell me, how many people would it hurt if your secret were to get out? How many?
Is it worth the risk? Worth hurting all those people? And how would you live with yourself afterwards?

This isn't about bloody feminism, this is about decency and honesty. Things you probably can't even spell.

drloves8 Tue 23-Feb-10 17:19:04

grin rhub sums it up well actually.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 17:22:09

VCAU sorry, Victorine, given that I run a successful business and work, no I'm not from a Victorian age. I have no idea whether Sophie works, but I bet her husband does - and that's where he was today while his wife was shagging around.

There's nothing remotely Victorian about treating people with decency and compassion, even on this thread.

Kactus Tue 23-Feb-10 17:22:30

<Slinks off back to Victorian age>

...after finding herself agreeing with Rhubarb. wink

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 17:40:57

there is another thread running concurrently on here about how a woman who had an affair bitterly regrets what she did

she got royally dumped by a player, and humiliated to boot

perhaps Op should read that one

or all the ones where cheated wives pour out their heart about a partner who withdrew affection from the marriage to lavish it on someone else

just a thought...

posieparker Tue 23-Feb-10 17:44:36

Either you are a teen or you just write like one. Sort your sham marriage out, first. Have sex with your husband, because he will have similar needs to you and will be acting upon them. I don;t understand why anyone who obviously needs a sexlife looks outside a marriage....

VictorineMeurent Tue 23-Feb-10 18:08:30

Well, I don't suppose many people who have happy endings (and there must be a few) post on here about it.

I just find all this vitriolic "fuck off" stuff a bit childish - everlikely men are unfaithful with more sophisticated ladies if this is the sort of fishwife attitude they have to put up with at home!

Why should ladies who stray be in parks or their lover's beds? A nice hotel with a log fire and a roll top bath - at least 40 miles from home is a much better scenario. (yes, I go halves)

My children have long flown the roost, so no problem there - they are nice tolerant young ladies so would probably understand.

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 18:14:57

Well said Victorine, the attitude on here towards affairs is so narrow and inflexible. What if you had already tried to 'fix what was wrong in your marriage' and it just hadn't worked? What if you felt really unhappy and took a small chance of happiness when it came along? The secrecy is necessary to stop people getting hurt

abbierhodes Tue 23-Feb-10 18:21:36

If there's nothing wrong with it Sophie, tell your husband. I'm sure he'll understand, after all, he must want you to be happy hmm

Do you have kids? Does he? Because I sincerely hope you don't, you don't deserve them.

sophie69 Tue 23-Feb-10 18:23:03

i loved the experience and i don't feel like i am morally wrong. my only partner to date is my husband, but after years of no sex and no intimacy it is not something which is going to change. today was beautiful, gentle, and harmed no one. yes, yes lots of people will rant and say it does hurt people in the long run etc etc, but today i feel good and i feel happy. is that so bad?

he was gentle, he did not treat be badly; in fact he made me feel special and was kind and soft. is it so horrible to enjoy the sensation, and to experience something new. no one else know, and i feel alive and invigorated. i plan to meet him again and sorry but i feel good today looking ack what happened. I am 35 and still young enough to feel sexy and young. I gave myself to someone on my terms and it was great. Its my choice if there will be a next step and what that will be. if he makes requests of me now I can choose to say yes or no.

so please don't throw bad language or insults at me and just be happy for me. thanks to victorine and ruby; they make me feel content with my choices

abbierhodes Tue 23-Feb-10 18:28:11

Why won't you answer people's questions?

cjn27b Tue 23-Feb-10 18:36:14

Is feeling alive, sexy and young all worth putting your relationship at risk for? You say you're very happy with your relationship, so I'm geeting the impression once the initial excitement has worn off things might get very tricky.

Why not sort out the lack of sex and intimacy within your relationship as this whole situation has highlighted it's a big issue for you. Have you considered taking yourself and your partner to a sex therapist? BARST (the British Association of Relationship and Sexual Therapists) have a list of qualified people all over the country. Don't feel awkward about going - the fizzling out of a sex life in marriage is terribly common and they will have seen it a hundred times before. They can work wonders, and you've nothing to loose.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 18:41:54

WEll I think affairs are right in some circumstances, even if they are fraught with problems. yes, some men lie, but I have met two who have most definately been denied sex for 10 years by women who expect them to carry on as if nothing was wrong .

Snort. You know what they chose to tell you, not necessarily the truth.

If a man is being denied sex for 10 years its probably because hes either shit at it, or else hes got charecteristics that make him unattractive to his wife and therefore she stays away.

So really, the denial of sex is just one of many symptoms of difficultys in a marriage and not a direct cause. And hes probably caused it himself, how many women want a sexless marriage?

What sort of woman is flattered by the attentions of a man whos a proven liar and a cheat? Really i think some of this is about women pissing on women ie " oh i must mean much more to him than his wife and family ".

Hehe , my EH did all this shit with his tart, told her how special she was, how we never had sex ect,how awful i were, and they were sooo in love.

Funny then that when it came out he dumped her and claimed it was meaningless. Hes now free to lick her fanny 24 hours a day but for some reason he doesnt want to. Seems he misses his family. Funny that.
And guess what, now someones licking my fanny hes not happy about it {grin}

Everytime i see him hes struggling not to cry . Probably he didnt want to listen to her shit full time and she obviously didnt want to wash his skiddy boxers.

The main attraction in any affair is the illusion, fantasy, the ridiculous image they both project.

Affairs are ok for those who need an escape from reality, or those who are too frightened to have a real relationship.

Op, as stated earlier, send me your dps details and i promise ill awaken his interests. Think about me sucking his cock while he complains that your so shit he never has sex with you anymore.

Feels good doesnt it {hmm}

Clearly a wind up, but some of the attitudes on here are a bit much, particularly when some posters are clearly upset. These women who say affairs are ok clearly have problems with their self esteem.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 18:44:12

abbie, because he/she is not real

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 18:46:05

< shakes pom-poms for dignified >

RubyPink Tue 23-Feb-10 18:51:52

Dignified, no problem with my self esteem, maybe you have one with yours?

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 18:56:14

everlikely men are unfaithful with more sophisticated ladies if this is the sort of fishwife attitude they have to put up with at home!

You might be right there. Maybe if i was more sophisticated and let my H lick my fanny in a public park things mightve been differant!

WWIFN might be able to confirm this, but im sure ive read that often the affair partner is less attractive than the spouse. Having seen some of these monstrositys these affair partners are its no wonder they creep round in secret !

When i saw the beast my eh had been messing with i could see why he was embarressed and didnt want anyone to know!

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 18:57:40

dignified, you are making me laugh grin

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 19:01:59

x's bint wasn't a patch on me, naturally wink

She was, however, a decade younger.

She also had a wonky nose.

Oh no, my mistake, she 'developed' said wonky nose afterwards.

<whistles innocently>

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 19:03:18

pmsl !

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 19:03:58

I discovered this site recently but today, after this, have decided that I can't open up here and talk to decent people about what I am going through - even though I see there are plenty of you out there.

In months to come the OP will change her name, alter her story a bit and ask for sympathy. There are no winners in this situation. The fall out is horrendous and the pain is beyond measure. As one poster said earlier there are some vile people around and 3 of them are on here today.

I am broken, I am lost, I am in pain - these things cause nothing but pain in the long run and what for - a few hours (if that) of pleasure. What a very selfish person you are.

Maybe you should charge for your weekly sex sessions then at least you would make some money too.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 19:04:41

Why on earth would i have a problem with my self esteem Ruby?

I do not wish to be put at risk from a cheat, and nor do i beg for scraps from another womans marriage.

Alouiseg Tue 23-Feb-10 19:09:37

I think that you would be getting some different replies if we were on a forum in France. In fact you probably wouldnt have bothered asking. You know what you are missing in your life and you're not getting it from your husband. He's reneged on his part of the deal. Id have some fun before its too late.

In fact i'd tell my husband what i was going to do first then waltz out of the door in my best frillies and a hollywood wax.

You only live once.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 19:09:52

karmann, you can, you can get support on here

OP's like this one are shite, of course, but they are the minority, and the support for them is very, very patchy

this OP is not real, karmann

have you started your own threa ? You really sound in need of some true and real sympathy....threads like these are best avoided in your situation (too upsetting for you..)

apologies if I have missed your story somewhere else x

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 19:21:53

I haven't yet been able to post my story. It's far too raw at the moment.

You are so right that it is far too upsetting for me right now - I've been trying to cope for so long on my own and this today has put me back to square one. I've tried so hard to cope but now know that I can't anymore.

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 19:27:12

Karmann, as with RL, there are people here who seem oblivious to how it can feel to be on the raw side of infidelity.

Some just don't care. It can be incredibly upsetting to see this dismissive perspective in action, particularly when everything is still raw.

MN can be a fantastic source of support and I can assure you there are many of us who can relate to how you are feeling, just from your posts on this thread.

Whether you stay or move on (I do hope you stay and allow those that can offer help to do so), please have faith that things will improve for you. I didn't believe they would when it happened to me but they did, in time.

EcoMouse Tue 23-Feb-10 19:29:04

Karmann, as with RL, there are people here who seem oblivious to how it can feel to be on the raw side of infidelity.

Some just don't care. It can be incredibly upsetting to see this dismissive perspective in action, particularly when everything is still raw.

MN can be a fantastic source of support and I can assure you there are many of us who can relate to how you are feeling, just from your posts on this thread.

Whether you stay or move on (I do hope you stay and allow those that can offer help to do so), please have faith that things will improve for you. I didn't believe they would when it happened to me but they did, in time.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 19:46:47

Karmen, just to echo what others have said. I hope you can post at some stage and get some support, the arseholery youve seen on here is very rare and definateley in the minority.

I couldnt speak about it for months without bursting into tears. Now i can activeley take the piss out of them both and i care a whole lot less as it was never about me.

If you dont feel you can post perhapds have a read of whenwillifeelnormals posts.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 19:56:16

Have copied all of whenwillifeelnormal's posts but not managed to read them yet - he hasn't fitted into the classic scenario. Can't believe I have got into such a state today. My H wants to stay with me and has, apparently, always wanted to.

I'm not making excuses for him but I do believe that he has suffered from PTSD for the past 25 years without addressing it. He was on the Sir Gallahad when it was bombed and witnessed some horrific sites, including dead friends.

I don't know how to carry on. I've tried so hard to come to terms with it. I have fallen apart completely today.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 20:01:16

have you any support in real life, Karmann ?

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 20:02:16

would you like me to do a shout-out for wwifn ?...she will be happy to speak to you on here

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 20:08:13

I've arranged to see a counsellor this week, worried though that he will tell me what I already know. I would like you to do a shout out but feel right now that I am beyond help. Sorry to sound so pathetic but have got myself really worked up today. Thanks for your support. Just lost it today.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 20:08:28

I think sometimes men who do this fall into two catergories, those that are sorry and correct it and those that do not.

For me it was clear that deep down my EH was not sorry and instead blamed me as opposed to accepting any sort of responsibility.For that reason he is now the ex.

You say your H wants to stay, what do YOU want?

Im not very good at this really unless it involves taking the piss out of idiot men, but i assume you know that this is NOT about you ?

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 20:10:45

ok, karmann

perhaps you could start your own thread in a few days ?

I don't want to push you, it sounds like you might not be ready x

and you are not pathetic

this Op was pathetic, not you

Petitioner Tue 23-Feb-10 20:11:28

Karmann
I never meant to cause you pain

I meant to make Sophie sit up and consider what her selfish stupid deluded behaviour really is.

posieparker Tue 23-Feb-10 20:11:42

Karmann, have you ever called the Samaritans? They are very calm, almost priest like, and will give you all the time and space you need to say whatever is on your mind.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 20:16:15

petitioner, I think you posted with the best of intentions

karmann will know that too, I think

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 20:20:14

Karmann - The pain is still raw and horrifying at times, isn't it? I am profoundly grateful that when I joined MN a year ago and started my one and only thread, I only heard from compassionate, wise posters. I do remember a few months later though, seeing posts that seemed to open the wound again. Fortunately, these don't have the power to hurt me any longer - and that will one day be the case for you, I promise.

These days, OPs and respondents like the ones we've seen today make me irritated - and in the case of Victorine - strangely pitying. When it comes down to it, it must be horrible to be in marriages like theirs. It's a shame they lack the spine to get out of them and feel the need to raid other relationships, but I wouldn't swap lives with them for anything.

And you know, I've been pretty compassionate to women who've had affairs on these boards, just as I would to a man. It's actually not these posters' affairs that causes me irritation, but the selfishness and complete lack of empathy for the betrayed partners that astounds - and angers me. No humility about their views being offensive to others who might be going through the pain of betrayal right now, like you.

Karmann, the meltdown you're describing is so normal, honestly - we've all had those awful days. Others have been an enormous help to me on here and I don't want you to cut yourself off from that support because of a few idiots.

Can I suggest we leave this thread to the viles and perhaps start your own support thread? If the offending posters have any shred of compassion and humanity, they will stay well away.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 20:21:33

Petitioner you didn't cause me pain - I thank you for your post because it pointed out to her what the reality is. You made absolute sense.

Dignified - he is terribly sorry and aware of what he's done. I want him to stay too. Despite all this deceit we have continued to have a very good life. Borne out of guilt possibly or the fact that he can compartmentalise. Despite this, he's always been a great partner.

AnyFucker - maybe I will post when I am strong enough. I thank you for your support and compassion.

Posieparker - my mother is a Samaritan! How bizarre. She is a wonderful mum and I feel bad that I don't talk to her about this stuff because she is so supportive. She has seen me through so much crap that I don't want to put upon her anymore even though I know she feels rejected by me. It makes me sad.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 20:29:51

Karmen your probably doing a lot better than you think you are.

I wont say what i did when i found out as ill sound like a loon, but it was very extreme to say the least and he,ll probably be wary on zebra crossings for the rest of his life amongst other things.

I spent the best part of a year struggling with it, made worse by him blaming me and denying any responsibility. Was really really shit.

I was a mess and would often come on here and rant and cry, i would often be in tears at the kindness shown to me by complete strangers .

And your not pathetic at all, i hope the counselling helps, mine was fab.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 20:32:54

WWIFN my concern is that I will be judged for my stupity over staying with him when his affair went on for so long. You are a true woman of wisdom and I admire you greatly, sadly borne out of experience.

It must be time to leave this thread and start my own but right now I really don't feel I am strong enough.

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 20:38:12

Dignified. Doesn't feel like I am doing well today! He has never blamed me but has taken full responsibility for it himself. Doesn't stop the hurt though.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 20:42:50

My love, if the affair is over and your H wants to work on your marriage, no-one will judge you for being stupid. If you've read my posts, you'll know I'll suggest he does some work on himself, but perhaps he has? Or perhaps our contributions suggesting he does that will help you persuade him to - I've seen that happen on here.

You do what's best for you - but don't leave Mumsnet. A year ago, hearing from people who had got through this and had better marriages and happier lives made all the difference to me.

Hope you'll feel strong enough to start a thread one of these days. I do really understand how today - and these awful words - have affected you. (Bone crushing hug emoticon)

Petitioner Tue 23-Feb-10 20:53:56

Karmann

My XH had an affair in 1996. He regretted bitterly. The woman made a play for him. Equally we were in a doldrum in our marriage. Bad recipe.

Marriages hit lows and highs. It's well known by men that married women are 'easy' because they often feel so unappreciated they leap at the slightest encouragement. I'm sure the same is true for men. I loved my husband. He loved me but we'd lost 'the loving feeling' as they say.

I felt humiliated, hurt, frightened and wondered why why why?

He felt devastated at his own behaviour. He felt unable to make it up to me and always apologetic. We both had to recover. We did and spent many happy years together. I do not regret taking him back and I know it's what he wanted.

I am now divorcing him because we grew apart. I still love him (odd though it may sound) I respect him. I'm glad we shared our lives. I'm glad we brought up our children. I'm glad that we split amicably and without anyone else involved. He still shares my life.

We both grew from that very painful experience. It is unrelated to our current separation.

The silly bint who chased him, chased a few more. She's unhappy and doesn't know what it's like to have a long term love. She just has short term infatuations. Part of me feels sorry for her loss.

My ex and I will have a relationship until our deathbeds. Nothing can separate that. I speak to him every day.

Hang in there and be honest and value yourself. Forgive. Understand and change what you need to. Honesty is a lovely thing. After an affair you can have honesty because there is nothing to hide. Love him and hold your head high.

Sophie and her like are selfish, deluded and their pleasure is superficial.

dignified Tue 23-Feb-10 20:59:54

No one will judge you for choosing to stay. Had my ex been willing to work on himself and be honest i would have probably stayed too if i couldve envisaged a better, new improved marriage.

Mine was a wanker so that wasnt possible, but maybe yours isnt and maybe you can resolve this.

Have you read the book, not just freinds?

KerryMumbles Tue 23-Feb-10 21:04:29

why do you stay married to someone you haven't had sex with in 5 years?

the mind boggles....

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 23-Feb-10 21:19:40

Supportive ladies - can you come over to the WWIFN thread and perhaps cut and paste your replies for Karmann?

In answer to your question Kerry, in no particular order I'd say it's fear of losing face amongst friends/family/the community, fear of getting a job and having to support themselves financially, fear of loss of lifestyle and fear of being blamed by their kids for breaking up the marriage. Many people dress up what are selfish fears as "staying for the sake of the children" - although I do think there are some women who genuinely do see the unfairness of their spouse losing daily contact with the children and so will put up with a bad marriage so that this loss won't happen. The awful irony is that a marriage lacking in intimacy is a terrible model to give children.

Petitioner Tue 23-Feb-10 21:28:38

I would but fear I'm not helpful

jasper Tue 23-Feb-10 21:33:46

Good luck to all on this thread, whether you are devestated by your partner's affair or despairing at the lack of love in your marriage and seeking it elsewhere

ineedabodytransplant Tue 23-Feb-10 22:03:39

Can I give a mans version of things. I have been married for 33 years. Our sex life was pretty good until about 8 years ago. My wife had a cystitus(sp?) problem so we stopped until she was comfortable again. Well I am still waiting! Seriously, we have not been intimate for nearly 8 years. There must be more though, as we don't even cuddle anymore. I have asked her what the problem is, if I can do anything to help, if we need to talk to someone. She doesn't want to know. She has had serious health problems over the last 15 years, and I have always been there for her. Now she is becoming more independant she probably doesn't need me anymore, I don't know. I would love to be able to have make love/have sex, whatever you want to call it. I don't want to believe that my sex life stopped at 46. I don't profess to be a sex god/stud and as you can tell from my nickname there is a lot I would change if I could. But even if I had a body transplant I still don't think she would be interested. And yet apparently, a lot of members here would call me a liar for saying I haven't had sex for all this time. As of four years ago we don't even share the same bed as it was amazing how far apart two people could sleep in a bed. But again some would say I was a liar if I told anyone this. As it is I have never, ever spoken in RL to anyone about the situation. As far as I am concerned this marriage is my concern, I took my vows and although perhaps the sensible thing would be to walk away, I can't. And I dare say that saying that will draw a lot of flak.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that although perhaps I don't necessarily condone the OPs view(unless trolling) I can see why maybe she is doing this. It would perhaps be great to find someone just for sex( makes them a f**k buddy though doesn't it?)I just couldn't do it to my OH. But doesn't make me a liar.

Sorry if this doesn't really make sense

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 22:11:29

it makes perfect sense

and I am sorry you are in this situation, but it is very, very different than the OP

I think if you posted this on your own thread, instead of at the end of a trolling/shit-stirring/mad cow's one, you would get a lot of sympathetic responses

ineedabodytransplant Tue 23-Feb-10 22:17:27

AF, not looking for sympathy, and I will hopefully post the full details of my situation one day. It was just that it seems that any man who tells a woman he doesn't sleep/ have sex with his wife is automatically called a liar. It happened in this thread that is why I responded.

In a way though not that different in that she says she doesn't have sex with her husband and although I don't see the need to ask anyone on here about it(unless she gets a thrill from writing about it, come on she hasn't met the guy and he has agreed to go dowen on her if she shaves!!)if true then she is in roughly the same boat as me....except I am keeping my bits zipped up..lol

Although I may be naive, I think it is a troll

ineedabodytransplant Tue 23-Feb-10 22:18:46

Sorry, I know she has now met the guy, but had she met him before all the trim details were discussed?

Long day, etc

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 22:22:26

I dunno, INABT

it's all shit though, so your question is academic grin

Malificence Tue 23-Feb-10 22:23:21

That's heartbreakingly sad ineedabodytransplant, does your wife know how you feel?

Has she ever explained her reasons for her withdrawal of intimacy and affection?

Fizzfiend Tue 23-Feb-10 22:30:19

Just one more thing....not all men who say their wives don't want sex are lying...you only have to look at the "where has my libido gone?" threads to know this. It's common for women to lose their libido after kids.

And also, my DH doesn't want sex with me (I've coerced him a couple times in the last few years but that's never a good thing), is so repressed that he can't talk about it, but I asked him if I could have sex with someone else and he said no. So that's me in a convent for the rest of my life? I don't think so.

I'm definitely moving into Solids camp...monogamy is no fun unless you're both on the same page. Surely both partners should be equal, have equal say and an equal right to have a loving relationship (which includes sex). You can't have a loving relationship without sex unless they're family.

ineedabodytransplant Tue 23-Feb-10 22:31:10

Mal, sorry I didn't respond for sympathy as I said to AF. Just saying that not ALL men are liars, some do tell the truth...hehe

I won't hijack this thread, I will start one of my own when I feel I can tell the whole story and ensure it isn't just my side of things. (Unfortunately, I am not perfect so I need to tell the whole thing)

AF, it may be shit and I honestly hope that if it is the OP can be honest, but I am not holding my breath for too long.hmm

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 22:43:51

gosh, INABT, I will look out for that thread...smile

FF, we have spoken before and I know I have been supportive of you

but I have forgotten something...do you have your relationships with married men ?

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 22:57:07

KerryMumbles forgive me for my confusion - why do you say 5 years? Why do you assume no sex for 5 years?

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 22:58:26

karmann...I think kerry was responding to the OP

Karmann Tue 23-Feb-10 23:03:09

Thank you AF - starting to not see the wood for the trees. Please don't bow out of other thread. Think you have a lot to offer.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 23:05:29

I am lurking, don't you worry smile

thesecondcoming Tue 23-Feb-10 23:13:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 23:23:03

tsc grin

MorrisZapp Tue 23-Feb-10 23:23:09

Good call - I'm getting seal sanctuary vibes too.

I think it suits the agenda to say how awful women are who sleep with married men etc but I will never see it in this black and white way.

It's almost always ill advised to embark upon an affair if you're married but I can never understand the perceived wisdom that the cheaters are vile, nasty etc and the partners are angelic sweethearts who deserve to 'win' the partner back.

How do we actually know this? I mean, without knowing the people involved? Maybe the partner is a liar and a cheat, maybe the partner is an arrogant sod, maybe the partner is like that man on the telly berating his wife for her low pain threshhold.

I don't get the whole 'wife = good' thing. Maybe the wife is entirely wrong for the guy - who knows? I often find myself thinking this on these threads.

OP was so obviously a troll even in first post btw.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Feb-10 23:27:10

nah, I am not thinking seal sanctuary, tbh

I was just smiling at tsc's usual take on these situations...

tsc..I hope you are still coming to the Manchester meet

I want to see this foul-mouthed, scary bint for myself grin

ChickenInABasket Tue 23-Feb-10 23:30:15

PMSL second coming!!!!!

Tortington Tue 23-Feb-10 23:42:18

i think the op needs to shit or get off the pot.

thesecondcoming Tue 23-Feb-10 23:43:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hunkyhippo Wed 24-Feb-10 00:18:40

Hello there. I'm a newbie to MN and having scanned the forums think that MNetters could maybe help me think through a situation. Apologies for the length of this post blush

I am a SM to 3DS and 1DD. I have been separated for 5 years. I was in severe domestic violence for 9 years with their father. I have had years of counselling and therapy and am ok now. My 4 DC are all ok now too. Well, as ok as we'll ever be.

This is my problem. I have not had a relationship of any kind since I left my H. I am scarred inside and out! I have regained my self confidence, but not where getting in the buff is concerned!

I think I have fallen for my eldest son's counsellor. He is so gentle and kind and handsome and makes me laugh so much. He is also 10 years younger than me, never married and no DC.

I have liked him for months but never once thought he felt the same. He is quite shy. Tonight he brought over a Tesco Double Chocolate Gateau and I gave him lasagna left over from our dinner. We talked and had such a laugh for ages and then he hugged me and then he kissed me. It left me feeling weak at the knees. I still have butterflies in my stomach and I can still smell him on me.

I am so confused. How can I tell if he is genuine?

Am I mad to think he would be interested in me, given my situation?

Am I wrong to this one time put my needs ahead of my children's? (they adore him BTW)

Am I just too easy? A Tesco Gateau!!!!!!

Am I just scared?

Any and all advice and views would be most welcome. Please help

BrahmsThirdRacket Wed 24-Feb-10 00:24:34

hunkyhippo, you need to start your own thread. Go back to the Relationship board and click on 'create new conversation'

hunkyhippo Wed 24-Feb-10 00:27:14

Oops, sorry, Thank you!

BrahmsThirdRacket Wed 24-Feb-10 00:34:15

It's OK, it might just get lost on this thread - you will get more responses if you have your own!

veryconfusedandupset Wed 24-Feb-10 07:46:13

Sophie isn't seal sanctuary woman, I am. Nice to see that 5 months since then all the same old arguments are still being raised ( by the same people too)

I'm afraid I'm out of this sort of fray, maybe/probably forever and have beaten the sad old bat's retreat to the gym and art class for satisfaction. My new maxim "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" includes X's cock as being out of that traumatic relationship has certainly cured my comfort eating.

I was intending to give a fuller description of my road to recovery at the end of April, by which time I hope to be 100% georgeous and 100% over it. I've certainly been helped by the fact that my life has been on the up since September and his has been very much on the down - anyway, more details to follow in April.

Couldn't help one observation as I read this thread - why do women believe husbands when they say the other woman enticed and entrapped? Is it not just about as credible as the 10 years without sex?

thesecondcoming Wed 24-Feb-10 08:34:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MorrisZapp Wed 24-Feb-10 13:05:11

My apologies too vcau. I remember that you were indeed genuine, although I hope you'll forgive me if I say some of the details of your dilemma were charmingly bonkers.

Anyhoo you seem like a thoroughly decent sort as opposed to this OP who appears to simply be attention seeking. Apologies OP if I have got this wrong.

AnyFucker Wed 24-Feb-10 14:04:02

vcau, unfortunately you are somewhat of an MN legend

take it as a compliment wink

you got one hell of a bashing on here, but you still come back and with very little retaliation which says more about some of us than about you

I have told you this before...I was a prime basher of you but the most flak you got was for being monumentally naive and allowing a man to treat you so peculiarly

MZ puts it well...charmingly bonkers grin

please tell us about the new you, when you are ready

thesecondcoming Wed 24-Feb-10 14:20:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

veryconfusedandupset Wed 24-Feb-10 15:03:55

Thank you ladies - i'll start a new thread at the end of April and tell you all about it
(goes back into phonebox to transmogrify into the leading light of the good housekeeping section)

Rhubarb Wed 24-Feb-10 15:08:37

I'm glad to see the mad trolls have finally crawled back to where they belong - there are genuine people being hurt by shit like this and how they can come onto such a thread and actually boast about their exploits is beyond me. I do wonder if the OP and her supporters are one and the same.

The old lines of "my wife doesn't give me sex anymore" or "we just live together as friends" or "I feel special with you" is just bollocks. These men have wives who have no idea what is going on, wives who probably do give their husbands love and affection.

These wives may well be Mumsnetters. These selfish bitches are simply out for what they can get and they don't give a shit who gets hurt in the process. They simply aren't brave enough to do the decent thing and be honest. They don't want their dh's to improve because they want to get their kicks elsewhere, to work on their marriages would take effort, they'd much rather ruin someone else's.

Yeah, a real gent cheats on his wife, gets you to look like a child whilst he goes down on you. Wow, guess I don't know what I'm missing. Hope he didn't have coldsores. Or actually, perhaps I do hope he did.

Hugs to all those hurt by this. Remember, this site can often entice these troll bitches, but the majority of Mumsnetters and the majority of people are kind, caring and honest people. Don't let this minority get you down, they're not worth it. They're not even real! Probably hairy handed truckers wanting to get a quick kick.

MorrisZapp Wed 24-Feb-10 15:11:31

You are brilliant vcau

Otherside Wed 24-Feb-10 16:42:17

I am not condoning affairs but was interested to know if anyone was tempted by an affair but walked away? I have been happily married for several years and have never had an affair or been tempted. Maybe it's easy for us to judge if we have never been in that position?

Rhubarb Wed 24-Feb-10 16:53:12

Yes.

I'll admit that at work a few years ago there was a Daniel Craig lookalike who took a shine to me. He was fit, had all the women at work after him, intelligent and good-looking.

I went for drinks with him with dh's permission. At the time I had an issue with the lack of jealously on dh's part and at that time me and dh weren't getting on. I was unhappy where we were, our sex life was shit and I enjoyed the extra attention.

But there came a point when I did walk away. I focused my energies on my lovely dh instead who did not deserve to be treated that way. He might not have a brilliant libido, but he's been there for me through thick and thin, he's my best friend and I would never, ever hurt him. I knew that even a kiss would devastate dh.

So yes, the attention from a younger, very handsome man was flattering and an ego-boost, but it also made me realise what was really important in my life.

And the other guy, well he pulled a 17yo girl whilst her boyfriend waited for her outside. She later got her boyfriend to pick her up after a night of passion with him, telling her boyfriend that she had stayed with a girlfriend - so it just goes to show what a gent he turned out to be hmm

ineedabodytransplant Wed 24-Feb-10 17:08:56

Rhubarb, you are doing exactly what I commented on a while ago. Assuming that all men who say they don't have sex with their wives are liars. How many men do you know who have said this and you can prove are liars? Not hearsay, but face to face? I am not stupid enough to think that every bloke who trots out this line(as well as my wife doesn't understand me...I think my wife understands me too bloody well...lol) is telling the truth. But please don't tarnish every man with the same brush.

Otherside, can't say I have been tempted so much as had offers to be pretty blunt but even though it appears from Rhubarbs posts I am a liar, I never took the ladies up on it. I plan on sticking to my vows even though it makes me feel like c**p.

thesecondcoming Wed 24-Feb-10 17:28:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jasper Thu 25-Feb-10 00:58:35

ineedabodytransplant, I agree.

Most of the claims of 'no sex in 10 years' come from my WOMEN friends.

Why the assumption that men who say they never have sex with their wives are lying?

It is absolutely the case that lots of couples are having NO SEX AT ALL. One partner ( male or female ) may not be happy about this and may succumb to affection/attention elsewhere.

Nothing to crow about, but perfectly understandable

Rhubarb Thu 25-Feb-10 09:42:10

I understand that some women do not have sex for a variety of reasons, I believe I did actually say that earlier on. Some of the reasons being medical, some due to depression etc.

BUT when a married man is trying to get his mistress into bed it appears to be the common lie that his wife withholds sex from him, that they drifted apart years ago, that they only live together for the kids sake, that he sleeps in a separate bedroom etc. Yet when he is found out it appears that he is still living with his wife, having sex and she is oblivious to what's happening.

ineedabodytransplant - I did not say that you were lying. You are not trying to get another woman into bed are you? Your situation is completely different.

I've gone through bouts of not wanting sex at all and so has my dh. It has pissed either one of us off at times, but we've sat down and we've talked about it. Ok, yes sometimes we've lost our tempers, called each other names, but the main thing is that we acknowledged the problem and worked towards fixing it.

If you have a problem of any kind in your marriage and your partner refuses to acknowledge it, then I would seriously consider the future of that relationship. Because whether it's lack of sex of lack of communication, both parties have to try and reach a compromise. If your wife refuses to talk about it, refuses to go to Relate whatever, then ultimately she is being extraordinarily selfish. Marriage is a two-way thing, there are compromises to be made. If one of you is willing to work things out but the other isn't, then I don't hold out hope for that relationship.

That is not to say that the partner should go and start an affair, especially with another married woman. If it comes to the point where you've tried and tried and the problem is not resolved, then you have to sit down and be honest with your partner. Sex is a basic human need and it's also our way of showing love to another, of growing close to them. A marriage without sex is not a marriage. If they can see how unhappy you are and are yet not willing to even try, then I would call it quits.

Children or no children - you cannot stay in an unhappy relationship. The kids will pick up on it anyway. Happy parents really do equal happy children and getting out of a relationship like that gives you both the chance to find happiness in your own ways.

Going behind your partners back however just leads to more unhappiness and hurt. No-one can move on whilst an affair is in progress. Affairs are all about lies and deceit and I don't know how lying and deceiving your partner can be good for your marriage. Esp in the OP's situation where both parties are married - that just doubles the hurt and pain that it will cause. I've seen the devastation first hand, it ain't pretty. And in all my years on Mumsnet, never has an affair fixed a marriage or gone unnoticed.

Malificence Thu 25-Feb-10 11:03:51

"A marriage without sex is not a marriage".

That is absolutely right Rhubarb, but so many people seem to think that the only valid form of sex, is penis in vagina penetration - there must be plenty of couples for whom this is not possible due to illness or injury, that doesn't mean sex and intimacy has to disappear, there just has to be a more inventive way of giving and receiving pleasure, for ineed's wife, I can only assume that she doesn't love him, to put him through this for 8 years is inhuman really.

SuSylvester Thu 25-Feb-10 11:07:10

i agree that many a failing marriage has too much sex form what i haev seen

Rhubarb Thu 25-Feb-10 11:46:37

Malifence, absolutely right. If for whatever reason the woman or man cannot have penetrative sex then there are others way to get close.

And yes different people have different libido levels. You can have a man who wants it 3 times a week and a woman who only wants it once a month. Again, you have to reach a compromise and talk about it. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of talking. If a problem like this is left then it just festers into bitterness and resentment, that's when affairs become tempting. Because the partner then things that his wife wouldn't care if he did cheat, because she doesn't give a damn anyway. But that's simply not true. Most people do care about being lied to. Sort it out and find a way where you can both be happy.

Malificence Thu 25-Feb-10 12:03:22

Su, your post doesn't make that much sense I'm afraid. A failing marriage has too much sex? confused

Bitterness and resentment is the death knell in a marriage unless there is full communication and a joint willingness to address the issues.

Ok...have not read everything but I felt the need to say:

When I read your posts all I hear is 'me me me' You feel special, you feel happy blah blah

You want to have an affair that's up to you. Instead of thinking about yourself though think about his family. Women shouldn't do this to other women and god knows if he is even telling you the truth about his relationship...

Whatever, beside the point there. If you want to do it then fine but out of respect for yourself and his family find someone who is not attached and that way all you hurt is your family and not someone else's too. These things have a way of coming back around.

Malificence Thu 25-Feb-10 12:24:03

emmabm, the OP is long gone, probably trolling and upsetting people somewhere else.

We've just carried the thread on as general opinions on sexless marriage and cheating .

Oh god just read more and honestly it is making me feel so sad and sick bleh

Just wanted to add:

karmann

Not to get to personal but I have been through this too. I took him back and I also don't want to feel like a fool. It was not to long ago but things like this post get to me as well which is why I felt compelled to say something.
The first thing I wrote was not a good thing to post and I rewrote it a few times but believe me I wanted to say so much more. I also hope that one day things like this won't bring it all back but you sound as if you are on the right road so keep it up.

Thank you mal

I was reading quickly while I had a few min between waking/sleeping babies and felt the need to write! Now I have read more and I see. I think maybe I should stay clear of these threads for a little bit more...

SuSylvester Thu 25-Feb-10 14:11:31

yes it can do.
certainly in one close to me it did.
he managed to haev sex with o/w/ andnag wife a lot.
both ended up with VD

WhenwillIfeelnormal Thu 25-Feb-10 14:29:18

emmabemma come on over to the wwifn thread if you need support. It certainly won't have helped you reading this OP's nonsense.

Ineedabodytransplant it's so good to hear from a man and I've got the utmost respect for your stance. Hope you'll seek support too.

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