MIL has been driving me mad recently and I need to rant!

[jenwa]

Sorry just wanted to rant really!
DD1 in playgroup and there all day on a weds. Her cousins are there in the morning with her but get picked up at lunch time by grandma (who is also DDs Grandma) DD gets very upset when she see's grandma as she wants to go to but she spends the day at playgroup and her cousins will be attending all day after the summer holidays. When MIL picks up the boys she always makes a point of going up to DD which then upsets her as she realises she is not going home with her! Last term we did a library visit, I went and so did inlaws, when we got back to playgroup the staff took DD off me to take her in as they knew she would get upset seeing me going (was lunch time so was coming back at 3 to collect her) so I let them take her but then MIL went in after her and took her a toy to cheer her up which is defeating the whole point of the staff taking her in to avoid upset, I was angry so went in and took the toy away and told MIL not to do this and that DD needs to learn that she stays at playgroup and cant have toys etc and not fair on other children.
THis week when I collected DD the staff told me that MIL had been in to collect boys and had upset DD by going over to her and they had to ask her to leave and tell her DD would be fine. MIL rang me later to say DD had been hysterical and shaking and that was before she had been into get the boys (this was from watching her though the window) anyway I told her Playgroup had told me what had happened and she got annoyed saying that DD had called her over and if she calls for Grandma then Grandma will NOT ignore her and will go over to her. Anyway I told them we had arranged for DD to be eating her lunch on the other side of the room so when Grandma comes again they wont be able to see each other as well, MIL agreed but said if DD called her she would still go to her, I told her not to as this makes DD more u pset, she then siad she would still go etc and basically will do what she wants!
Spoke to playgroup today who said DD was NOT crying prior to MIL going in and DD did NOT call "grandma" and she went over by herself and upset DD! DD also said Grandma came over to her. basically MIL does not want anyone else caring for DD and it is driving me mad. They also have issues with bloke who works there (he is lovely and is a BIl of one of the staff and has gone through the right procedures etc to work there) but MIL thinks its odd that DD likes him and he allows her to sit on his lap at times! Thats another story.
Anyway, it has really upset me and I feel in the middle now as it has caused an issue at playgroup. I did buy them some biscuits toay to apologise for the stress as I feel so uncomfortable about it.
DH wot get involved as his mum is precious and does not like to upset her. She always gets her way and DH has always said to keep her happy and she will be fine It is annoying when your children are involved and she is telling me conflicting info and basically does not like DD going to the playgroup. What SHE wants is to get DD with the boys and have her at her house where she feeds her a pack of ham and a bunch of grapes and says how well she ate
Sorry I really needed to rant, have just had a stressy time with it and wanted a nice birthday yesterday without dealing with all that crap too!

Sorry my spelling is bad, I am typing and not really looking

[beanie35]

As annoying as your mil sounds, I suppose it could be argued that she obviously adores your little girl. Whilst I agree that you have to be firm with her about her behaviour upsetting her granddaughter, have you ever considered her maybe being able to take her home with the cousins for just one of the days? I know that giving her a pack of ham and grapes is not ideal, but can it really hurt if it is only now and then? Of course you have to stand you ground on your daughter not being upset by an over-eager nan, but if you relent on the odd day Im sure she'll be less likely to pester her the rest of the time. To be honest it could be worst, she could take an interest in her two other grandchildren and none in your child (believe me it happens).

[Flyonthewindscreen]

It sounds like it has become a real control issue for your MIL, since you have specifically asked her not to do this. Could you have a word with the playgroup staff and see if they could have your DD's cousins waiting and ready to go with your MIL? (so that it would be more difficult for her to have a pretext to go and upset your DD). Your MIL sounds a nightmare and really your DH should be having a word with her, easier said than done, I know...

[jenwa]

beanie I do see where you are coming from. MIL had DD every thurs and we only recently stopped it due to uping her hours at playgroup as it is such a good playgroup and she needs to go more and off course 15hrs free and I go back to work in July so needed to slot things around that too.
I dont mind MIL having her but dont want to distrupt DDs playgroup and messing everyone about, if I let DD go one week Mil will expect it and it will make DD worse as she will want to finsish early every week and will get upset if she cant.
they wont offer to go and collect her later which if they really wanted her they could have her then, not that I would expect them to go back etc but if they get so upset (like MIL sayd about seeing her there and feeling sorry for her) then they could collect her later but then I would still have to go back out and fight my way across town to collect her later when feeding dd2 etc. DD1 has not long been going to playgroup more hours and it has really worn her out and I found when she was going to MIL that she was soooo moody the next day as hungry and over tired. Its difficult really! I am lucky in the sense she does love her but her life is just her grandchildren now and nothing else. She is always buying for them and spoining them and we have had to say no to so many things as DD has no space in her bedroom with the amount of toys they get her!

KamR Playgroup have her cousins waiting ready but MIL always manages to get to DD, either by saying one of the boys needs the loo or just running over to dd it is hard and I feel so stuck in the middle and always feel the bad one and made to feel the bad one too although playgroup did say today they see what I mean so dont feel too bad now and that it has been seen from an outsiders point of view!

[TwoScrambledEggs]

Do you have time to get there first and stand in the door blocking her way while the staff make sure dd doesnt see you or her? Is that too extreme? Is there another nursery you like? Any montessori or anything like that?

[jenwa]

TwoScrambledEggs
Love the nursery shes in, I could home teach that may solve problem

[jenwa]

DH just gone to MILS so am now wondering if my ears will be burning and I will be the daughter in law from hell! hate it when theres tension but am pleased to say that it is not my fault

[AccioPinotGrigio]

Can I offer another perspective. Would you prefer it if your MIL went to the nursery and totally ignored your daughter, only paying attention to her cousins?

How do you think that would make your daughter feel?

If one day you find yourself a MIL, how would you feel if you were told to ignore your own flesh and blood?

There are a lot of MIL threads on here and quite often the MIL is bang out of order, with your situation, to be frank, I think you sound like the difficult one.

No offence intended, I'm just calling it as I see it.

[HarryB]

By AccioPinotGrigio on Fri 24-Apr-09 20:28:52

"how would you feel if you were told to ignore your own flesh and blood?"

This is why MiLs get away with what they do. They think the GC's are their children and directly their flesh and blood.

I agree with KamR. The nursery staff are there to protect your children. If Mil is causing DD to be upset on their premises, they need to put a stop to it.

[nkf]

I'd let her go home with her cousins. It just seems friendlier all round. In a few months, all the cousins will be there all day.

[jenwa]

If MIl went and did not go up to daughter and upset her it would be fine! DD is happy to wave and smile but MIL going over to her hugging her and kissing her makes DD get upset!
I put her in all day to avoid her spending all day with MIL as they have the 3 of them plus my other DD in July on one day which is alot for them. They give the children full attention which is lovely but dd does no wrong in their eyes and is given everything she wants so comes home tired and hungry and bad tempered and always with new toys and I have run out of room to put stuff.
I am not asking MIL to ignore DD but to stop making a point of going over to upset her really. I dont mind her waving etc but she has lied to me about the situation and made out DD was hysterical etc when the ladies there told me she was not at all!

harryB thank you, they do treat them like their children and tell me things I already know about them as if I dont If MIL really loved her then she would stop going out of her way to talk to DD and upsetting her. Yes I could send her their for the rest of the day but playgroup is fab and she has learnt so much from being there and is doing so well I dont want to stop that, she has started to recognise words, letters and numbers and is doing sooo well there. She also is learning more discipline and sharing where at MIL they have their own individual pile of toys and dont like the idea of sharing them!

[AccioPinotGrigio]

"This is why MiLs get away with what they do. They think the GC's are their children and directly their flesh and blood."

I am sorry? So the grandchildren are not the "flesh and blood" of the grandparents? Since we're generalising can I add that this is why DILs cause a lot of problems - they just won't accept that their husbands mother is a valid member of their family.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

jenwa

I am afraid your H is also going to have to grow a pair and stand up to his Mother on this otherwise it will keep happening. It is his problem too. You could tell him that keeping quiet as everyone has done to date has not helped any and infact has made her worse. If not problems with playgroup then another issue re her will arise. MIL wanting her own way all the time seems very controlling actually. No one in her family has been able to stand up to her and this is partly why she has been able to get away with her behaviours for so long.

I would also add that it can be very difficult for your H to stand up to her primarily because he has been conditioned to accept this as "normal".

What's FIL like?. I guess as well her H has never been able to bring her into line either has he?. More likely he has taken a back seat and become a "bystander".

This is actually all about power and control, at present MIL calls the shots and is steamrolling over everybody's wishes. Wanting to control as well in such a manner often comes from her deeply rooted anxiety and insecurities. Often such problems go untreated.

I would certainly be having a word with the preschool staff about your MIL (maybe the cousins can be ready for MIL to immediately collect and then she is ushered off the premises without seeing your DD). They certainly cannot allow MIL to go keep going up to your DD - again MIL is disregardign others here. I would also be looking at your DD attending on a different day to that of her male cousins.

It strikes me that your MIL is completely domineering (I would also use the term toxic) both at home and outside and only thinks of what she herself wants; she certainly comes across as domineering and is disregarding your wishes.

Such problems with toxic relations can also become generational; people with such control issues are more than happy to pass this all onto the next generation as well.
This MIL will never accept any responsibility for her actions and will never apologise. My guess too is that if you were to talk to her she would see your reasoned criticism as a direct attack on her and she could thus not be reasoned with. She could well turn around and give you a laundry list of your own supposed shortcomings.

Pinot's words are understandable but again these sentiments are often stated by people who have no real knowledge, fortuantely, of what truly dysfunctional families are like and what these people are truly capable of. They can be very nasty individuals.

[MIAonline]

Whatever the in's and out's of the MIL situation, your MIL should respect your wishes. Fair enough she can rant and rave about it in private to her DH, but you have specifically asked her not to do something that is upsetting your DD. The fact that the {unbiased) pre-school staff are also agreeing with you and see it as a problem, tells me that she is making a difficult situation ten times worse.

I agree with Atilla, your DH needs to step up and put his DD first and speak to your MIL.

[Ispy]

Attila speaks a lot of sense about why your MIL behaves the ways she does. My MIL is deeply insecure and controlling and I have found dealing with one 'battle' at a time is the only way to go.

Rome wasn't built in a day, so for this particular issue I would definitely speak to the staff and have the cousins ready to go and be picked up out of view of dd. This will at least alleviate some of the upset that dd experiences. As far as dealing with your MIL on this, TELL her this is how you NEED it to be in order to minimise dd's upset.

[jenwa]

attila wow! You have summed her up! OMG, I read that and it was like you knew her . Thank you it really helps and makes complete sense.
You are so right about her DH too (FIL) he does step back and is soooooo under the thumb. There are alot of other issues we have had and she is very controlling but I wont go into it all now. FIL gets commanded to do what she tells him and the look she gives if he wont is scary. HE is ordered to fetch and carry and collect toys for the children and it is like living with a sergeant major. I have been in there house where she say to FIl "fetch this" "can you get L a drink" "can you put telly on" "can you go and find the toys in the spare room" "can you move the table so children can sit at it" "Move it closer so they can see telly" "move * so he can see properly" "Turn tv up" etc and this is just like I have put it and one command after hte other and it tires me watching it and for FIL but I think he does it and never says anything and it is not my buisness. If she asks hime to do something with DD when I am there I say "no I will" etc as dont see his need to do it. SHe also does it in my house although not so much as I step in, she wont let DD go up on her own incase she falls downstairs (she is 3.5 and lives here) and she asks FIL to go up and I say "no" she is fine. Sorry waffled there abit!
I feel the bad DIL as I always question it and say "no" but it is because I know it will get worse if I dont.
She does also try to make me feel bad by saying her DH is soooo upset about it never she is! I know she lies about this too!
Ie FIL was upset to see DD upset at playgroup yet he was not the one going up to her and the staff said he was fine and wouldbe better collecting her cousins! He is more level headed and understands!

I have to go as dd2 is crying but I will be back later
Thank you though, I dont feel bad now about it and you have clearly summed her up

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Hi jenwa,

I have relatives that leave much to be desired as well so have some insight into such people.

People who come from dysfunctional families often play out set role - am not surprised at all to see that your FIL is the bystander. He has done this for want of a quiet life and out of his own self preservation. However, he is also to some extent culpable as he has never reined in his wife's worst excesses but also gave in. I would perhaps go as far to say too that your MIL may have some sort of personality disorder (relating to anxiety hence her overt need to control) - this is by no means "normal" behaviour.

Would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward. When your H finally sees what she is really like (and there is no telling when that will happen) I would give him "Toxic Parents" written by the same author to read.

There are books on controlling people and how they operate - you may want to have a look on Amazon for these.

It is NOT your fault she is like this - she has chosen this way for her own self. She is not yours to fix. All you can yoruself do is to set proper and fixed boundaries if and when she visits your house. Your house, your rules. You have the final say re your daughter too.

[HarryB]

By AccioPinotGrigio on Sat 25-Apr-09 08:45:48

"I am sorry? So the grandchildren are not the "flesh and blood" of the grandparents? Since we're generalising can I add that this is why DILs cause a lot of problems - they just won't accept that their husbands mother is a valid member of their family."

Yes, she is flesh and blood but I don't class her as my family. My DS and DH are my family. It's funny that MiL is a thorn in the side of my family but doesn't even speak to her own (brothers and sisters) - she fell out with them funnily enough. She doesn't have any friends either. Some people just aren't very nice.

[AccioPinotGrigio]

Some people just aren't very nice.

Ain't that the truth. And it applies to MILs and DILs in equal measure. I'm just not convinced that, in this case, the MIL is that bad. And the rush to the "TOXIC" diagnosis is based on what .... a couple of posts that don't really give the full story IMO. Still as long as you all feel you have the moral highground ........

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I'm just not convinced that, in this case, the MIL is that bad".

How did you arrive at such a conclusion?. Am genuinely curious. As mentioned before, people who thankfully do not come from backgrounds where this sort of behaviour is played out on a daily basis do find all this hard to comprehend. Just because you haven't seen it at first hand does not mean to say it does not exist.

To my mind this MIL of jenwa's sounds absolutely dreadful and has certainly put her own desires and wants well above anyone else's; even her husband who sounds totally henpecked.

[HarryB]

Any MiL, or person, that doesn't respect the wishes of her grand children's mother, is a class A bitch IMO. Doesn't matter how you did it in your day, or what you think is right. They are not your children.

I agree with Atilla, unless you have been on the receiving end, it is hard to fully comprehend how a nasty MiL can get under your skin. I will never forgive mine for the way she made me feel after DS was born. I feel like I lost valuable bonding time with DS because of it and will never get that time again. I'll forever hate her for it.

[jenwa]

Sorry I never did make it back! Have been really manic!

I am grateful to you who see my point and attila you have totally got it right. accio You say she has not got the full story but she has actually summed her up and I feel like she has already met her .

MIL came around last night and I could see she was off with me but I just had a glass of wine and ignored it. I am in the thinking DD is mine and if she wants to see her at all then she will have to learn she cant have her way all the time.

harry so sorry you have had a hard time with your MIL and lost that time with your DS. I hope you have made up for that with him, all I can say is he wont remember it and will just have fond memorie with you.
I do have to say that MIL can actually be lovely and has been very kind to her grandchildren and always helps out when she can, she is very generous and buys some lovely things but I think as she is also controlling and has no other life than the grandchildren, when something does not go her way she does change and becomes awful.

She does have alot of anxiety and insecurities like attila mentions and I know this plays a big part of it.

Attila this statement is soooo true aswel!
"This MIL will never accept any responsibility for her actions and will never apologise. My guess too is that if you were to talk to her she would see your reasoned criticism as a direct attack on her and she could thus not be reasoned with. "

Sorry this is a bit rambled but I am trying to write this with Dh in the other room and he would not be impressed if he knew what I was saying re his mum. I think deep down he lknows as he often makes reference to not wanting to upset her because of the way she is etc but would not like him to see I was saying all this IYSWIM

We had a lot of probs when DD was born and they wanted to shorten her name and we asked them not too. Basically there is an shortened version to dds name and we said when she is older she can choose to be called whatever but at the moment it is this, MIL said they would call her what they wanted and then made out it would upset FIL!
I still have the email she sent me about it! DH actaully did speak to them and things worked out ok but she was not impressed as I think its the first time DH sttod up to her and I was also not at all happy!

Anyway, I do appreciate all your kind words and will be looking in to that book

[jenwa]

Thanks StayFrosty I wish he would but he works and is setting up a buisness at the moment so does not really get the chance to get any time off appart from last week on my birthday. I do feel however if the staff did say something he would prob back his MIL and say he did not like DD being upset either and would be more upset that it had upset his mum IYSWIM?
It is stressing me out to be honest but I think i just have to carry on and deal with it now, I think eventually, if things carry on then DH will have to be involved. I like the way you worded it and I think if the issue arises again I will get him to collect her and get the nursery staff to have a word with him then!

[AccioPinotGrigio]

Attilla - just as you have made huge generalisations and sweeping statements about jenwa's MIL based on a couple of posts (effectively one side of the story) you have also assumed from my two or three posts, that I "have no knowledge of dysfunctional families". You know, you are quite wrong, my problems have been with my parents rather than my MIL though.

I guess it would be very convenient for you if I had no idea of the problems you are discussing because then you could effectively shut me out of the debate and continue with the the "toxic" one-size fits all diagnosis. I don't think this is particularly helpful or indeed accurate. To me what you say is redolent of horoscopy - very broad statements which can be picked up by anybody and applied as truth.

Honestly, from re-reading the OP, I am not getting the image of a "toxic" MIL. I get that she might be a bit pushy but I also get that her intentions are honorable - she loves her grandchildren. I also think that some of jenwa's actions, from what she has posted, are not really helping matters but exacerbating the potential conflict. Taking away the toy the MIL had just given to her grandchild seems OTT and the kind of action that is guaranteed to cause tension. I strongly get that Jenwa wants to keep her MIL at a distance and the only explanation she gives for this is that the MIL buys too many toys and feeds the child ham and grapes. Nothing more than that apparently - no lies, no duplicity, no MIL emotional blackmail - and yet the woman is being made out to be a toxic monster.

In this case, based on the scant information we have, it sounded to me like a "six of one half a dozen of the other" situation which could be resolved by better communication and on both sides.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

The point I made about people not understanding about the natures of dysfunctional families was a general one and not directed at any one poster.

I have never met Jenwa's MIL but I recognise the type and these people cannot be readily reasoned with. If Jenwa was to try and discuss this with her MIL she would be shot down. You have people in very similar situations to Jenwa making the same sorts of comments that I have. Are such views not helpful either?.

Your views on this particular matter (and I would also count them as valid even though you dismiss mine out of hand - that is your choice) are in the minority.

This MIL from what I understand has made life difficult for not just Jenwa but the preschool group and her entire family. Her H's comments in the initial post also re his Mum are telling. This MIL has indeed lied about her behaviours and has tried blaming others!.

Ultimately it is up to Jenqa and her H to address the issues.