DH is so mean to dd...

[McMummy]

My DH and I have been having problems and are trying to sort them out.
Thing is though, he is often so mean to our dd. She is more emotional and much harder work than our son, but dh can be so short tempered and, well, mean to her. Like tonight, I went out with a friend. DD needed a bath - I started it before I went out. Apparently, he had watched the football untill 10, then decided it was too late for her to have a bath (it had all slowly drained out), and upset her by making her have a shower (she hates showers).

He could have paused the football, or watched upstairs while she bathed herself (she is 7, very sensible and needs limited supervision). Instead he looked after himself, and then upset her.
There are many other things, but I just feel so sad for her. I feel like I am letting her down.

[whereismumhiding]

Oooh that was mean of him.

I'm not saying this is right though, but I wonder why she needed a bath so much tonight that you had to run it before you left but needed him to finish it. He sounds like he didnt really (want to) "sign up" to doing it and just showed it in his actions.

DD and him are clashing. He's the adult so he needs to think it through. Can you ask him if he knows that he is clashing with DD and what he thinks he could do to try to improve how they get on?

[McMummy]

She needed a bath because she had been swimming and was still a bit chlorine-y.
And I had to leave as I was going to the cinema.
He knows they clash, but he tends to say things like "well, she just won't listen". She does listen, but he tends to get all heavy with her, and she gets upset

[thumbwitch]

poor DD - selfish DH.
He needs to address why he is so short-tempered with her - it will probably increase her emotional level and make her less likely to respond in a good way to him.

Does he feel that you take her side against him? Does he feel that he needs to redress the balance? Or is he just being immature about it?

"she just won't listen" is a very immature response - if she doesn't listen the first time then find a different way to say it, rather than just losing temper.

Does he have a sister at all, perhaps an older sister who is a bit domineering?

[McMummy]

Interesting thumbwitch...
He does have an older sister - she's not domineering, but I would say that she did get most of the positive attention in the family...

[macdoodle]

Thats just bloody mean slefish and immature

• she is only 7 of course she doesnt listen - my DD1 is 7 and yes we clash its normal - but sorry was he ignoring her all evening and then got cross because he had stuffed up - thats just nasty!

[Kally]

Mine ex was like this with our oldest daughter. He always expected too much from her and even tho she was the sensible one, he'd always move the goal posts. I used to hate leaving him with the both of them. Yet DS was a much harder kid to handle, but he was far more tolerant with him.

My ex had an older sister that got his parents attention continually (was put on a pedestal)and I often used to think he didn't like 'females' because of this.

Move the clocks on about 15 years - we are divorced - his attitude towards her got worse despite the fact that she is a wonderful daughter - and they now, today, don't speak at all and she loathes him.

He always accused her of being devious and manipulating, being my precious one (which wasn't true), I could see the frostiness with him for her.

I suppose I didn't handle it very well, and she often recalls things that I would have handled differently today. Plus when you are in the thick of it you can't quite see it. Alarm bells of unfairness would go ogg and I would let it ride for a quiet life. But today, she recalls it, nothing is forgotten and she has a pile of resentment towards him. Her self esteem is bruised and she chose all the wrong men for the 'negative confort zone' issue. Address this problem.

I also think - her being first-born - he somehow resented her coming along and taking away our 'together you and I' thing. He was ok when she was a baby, he was patient and besotted, but the more she grew into her personality, the more he distanced himself.

I remember looking at a old photo where he has DS on his lap kissing his forehead and she is standing beside 'left out' and it seems to summarise what she felt like in all aspects of whatever she did with him.

This was one of the reasons we fell apart, I wish I had done something beforehand and saved her the destruction it created in her self image.

I had a wonderful father and was idolised by him, I couldn't identify with what I experiencing regarding their relationship. I know now, not all Dads are like mine was.

He wasn't horrible to her, but just unfair, continually. He always expected her to be the respinsible one, the compliant one, the one who would 'give-in' for the sake of an easy life (for him reagrding care of the two children).

Nip this in the bud, but without creating a black hole. It is so easily interpreted as you being over protective or 'siding' with her. Don't let it happen. I did, without realising, and today she is the one who suffers. Not me, I'm out of it, but that is her first relationship where she learns about a mans love and it has to be pointed out to your husband how important his input is, with her.

Bit long this response, but it struck something in me when I read it.

[McMummy]

Thank you Kally for your response . The fact that this is her first relationship with men is what upsets me the most.
He very often doesn't see things from her point of view - She will be tired or whatever, and he just expects her to be very "good", and do things without complaint.
I suppose I feel that he is not very compassionate towards her.

He is such a good dad to ds, which I think is worse in a way as she can see the difference, and also he is choosing to be bad tempered with her.
I don't want her to grow up hating him (or me).

[thumbwitch]

McMummy, I think Kally's response is very useful - perhaps you should mention it to your DH to give him a hint that this is a possible outcome if he doesn't take steps now to improve his relationship with his DD.

You could try asking him if he feels antagonistic to her because she is a girl and because his sister was favoured - it might be something that he does unconsciously in an effort to make sure that your DS doesn't end up feeling second best, like yor DH might have himself.

[McMummy]

Thanks Thumbwitch - I think that makes sense (that he is trying to ensure ds has a better time of it than he did).
He never ever talks about his childhood - most things I know are what I have gleaned. I do know that his mum hated his dad, and only really stayed for the kids. They were both unfaithful (dh's mum would bring men home and dh and his sister saw), and fought alot. I'm pretty sure MIL treated dh differently.
When dh was a teenager, mil tried to leave while dh's dad was away - basically sneaking off.

Gosh that was alot of information...

[thumbwitch]

gosh, sounds like he has ishooos with his DM as well then - he possibly needs to work through these ishoos, perhaps with some professional assistance, so that he can look at your DD with clearer vision, not clouded by bad family memories. for you and for him in many ways - that poem by Philip Larkin is apt here:

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Sooooo true...

[Kally]

nice thumbwitch. Very true.

First borns always bear a lot of weight. A lot of inexperiences, insecurities, the whole negative bunch of feelings and bewilderment. They are the guinea pigs of inexperience.

Kids born after the first born are in a better start off position. I can see it with my own, can see it with my older siblings, expecially my oldest sister (whom I adore).

But my Dad was in the navy, away a lot, was just a presence now and then, not creating too much damage . When he was around we all adored him.

I now live alone with my youngest DD and she is a peach. No hang ups (only 11 years old) she has had little male input as we left when she was young (about 4) and I am sure she will be a better person in herself for having had mainly just female nurturing (plus no siblings vying for space). My older two are much older and little one was a late life child, and so much better off for it!!

We can't map it out, have little control with both Mum and Dad's way of handling things, which are full of underlying subconcious bits of baggage we drag along with us. Inadvertently we fertilize our children's growth with them. We can't help ourselves.

Fairness between our selves and our children is essential, and if you think it out of order, point it out. Not infront of the DD but when she's out of earshot. Otherwise it becomes a tool for her to control different 'courts', even tho she doesn't realise it.

My husband was Middle Eastern and I think this, along with everything else inbred in him, added to this chasm with his DD. I used to querie my own judgement, wrongly so. I should have done more.

Today my DD1 thinks I didn't do enough. She blames me partly even tho I tell her I dealt with it, but not infront of her. She doesn't believe me as as far as she's concerned she felt she always got the shitty end of the stick.

Maybe when she's got a family of her own she'll understand a bit better how things work. I think only then you can get the full circle picture and understand all that is involved.

Sounds like your hubby is a bit 'anti-female'. Even if he doesn't know it himself. Looking at what you said and his experiences gives good reason and I am sure if you point this out he will want it to be different and try. Men don't think tht deep. You have to carefully suggest it. Make him wake up to his own weaknesses. I never broached this with my ex, and I wish maybe I had, for her sake.

Someone said that a child can survive a 'bad father' (meant here in light terms) but the damage does go deeper with a bad mother.

It can be fixed.

[MuffinBaker]

What was she doing until 10pm? At 7 I would expect her to be fast asleep before 10pm.

[whereismumhiding]

Now you explained why she clearly needed to have a bath that night, I'm a bit disgusted on your dd's behalf that DH didnt get up off the sofa and bath her - even though the bath was there run!! He could have done a quick 10 min bath with her and at her age of 7 even let her then dry and dress herself safely in her bedroom whilst he popped down to check on the match again before dashing up for a quick kiss goodnight.

If you are noticing he treats them differently even if unintentionally, then dd certainly will feel it. Kally definitely said some very wise things.

[sheena1]

hi this rings bells

my dad is very like this with my younger sis always has been he can be short tempered she is highly strung and more emotional than me he constantly has a go at her like he says she doesnt listen when she does she is now 23 and hes been like this as long as i can remember now she is arguin back which is not helpin but he has made her like this i try to tell her just to sit quietly n listen n then walk away n dont through petrol in the flames and make it worse

i have no advice but i know how ur feeling x

[McMummy]

Good poem Thumbwitch
Thanks everyone.
We have talked about this before - most times he will blame her in some way. When he tries with her, she is a total daddy's girl. I dread when he has had a bad day, as generally he is awful with her. I have threatened to record him, and he always says "oh that'll cheer me up" - so he does know...

[AnyFucker]

kally, your posts have made me cry, they are so wise

OP, could you print out Kally's responses and show them to him?

my r'ship with my father was just like this, so many echoes

I am now in my 40's and still suffering for it, as is the relationship with my mum for whom, as I grew older, gained more insight and had dc of my own, I lost respect as I slowly realised the extent to which she could have protected me more...

sorry, thats a bit garbled, very difficult to put into words

although on the outside I say I am ok, am over it, am a grown-up now, it still has such power to hurt.....