Urgent advise needed, have a contact order but DD says she doesn't want to see her father.

[jessiesmummy]

I have had a contact order for a few months and my daughter has been seeing my XP. She has just turned 3 and has been seeing him once a week since around October. She often comes home quite upset but always leaves to see him without that much fuss. Recently I asked him to start paying child support and after much messing about he agreed. Ever since he has been very argumentative and aggressive to both me and my DH. Yesterday when she returned from contact she was inconsolable and stayed very upset for the rest of the day. She says that he had told her that my DH who has raised her since she was a baby is not her daddy and that he was not there when she was born and a lot of other stuff that she is not old enough to understand and is not appropriate to talk about to a child her age. I have explained the situation to her and have never misled her or refused to answer her questions on the matter. He was clearly very aggressive and scared her a lot. She is now saying that she does not want to see him again as he scared her yesterday. The problem is I have a court order saying that he must see her. But I done want my usually very happy DD seeing someone she is scared of. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do next? Thanks

[KingCanuteIAm]

You need to speak to your solicitor about it. A 3yo choice is not taken into much consideration but is worth something in court. His behaviour is very wrong and he should not be allowed to get away with it but you do not really want to get in hot water with the court. Do you think you could get your HV to come round and get dd to explain it to her (she would need to be impartial and not lead her) so that you have a profesional who can witness dds distress?

[NAB09]

Not sure it would be fair to make a 3 year old go over it again.

If she thinks your Dh is her Dad, who does she think your ex is?

[jessiesmummy]

I was thinking of taking her to see the health visitor tomorrow, I think thats probably the best starting point. Thanks.

[gagarin]

Keep a diary of things she says and when. make sure you address them with your XP too however uncomfortable it is.

And get some legal advice.

3 year olds are very fickle and she may well have a good time next time she goes.

If you have a court order she has to go.

[jessiesmummy]

She says she has 2 daddy's obviously shes a little young to know the details. But she hadn't seen my XP for about 20 months when contact started. She has never had a problem with the fact that they are both her daddy's as she says she has two nans two grandads and two daddy's. it breaks my heart but she has always seemed ok with it. However she has always chosen to call XP Mark rather than Daddy, but that was her choise. Yesterday out of the blue he told her that she was not allowed to call him Mark and must call him daddy I'm not sure exactly what happened as I wasn't there but I know she was very scared and upset.

[jessiesmummy]

What if she refuses to go when he comes? She is often upset when she returns from contact. She says she likes going to nice places but not with him.

[KingCanuteIAm]

If she refuses to go and you have tried to encourage her then it is not in her interests to force her - however, I am not sure that would stand up if he took it back to court.

Get proper legal advice.

If you do see the HV explain the situation first and explain that you wish her just to listen to what dd has to say so that she an bak you up if the need arises. The last thing you need is to have dds words compromised (and her mind more confused) by someone thinking they can "help".

[jessiesmummy]

Thanks. I have heard that sometimes a social worker can come round and see how she reacts before and after contact. I was also thinking maybe a contact center would be a good idea. I just feel terrible because as her mum she has told me she doesn't want to see him and yet its not in my power to make that happen.
As for legal advise as this was unexpected I cant afford a solicitor but dont qualify for legal aid so its a nightmare. Plus I dont even have a solicitor so would need to find a new one.

[KingCanuteIAm]

In that case ring CAB, they could recommend a course of action or the right person to talk to. SS may be able to help if you call them and express that you are trying to keep up with a court order but you are worried about dds reactions. (in some areas they will be all over you to help, in others they won't want to know so this is just a case of giving it a go)

[jessiesmummy]

I don't think CAB deal with any family law issues but might be able to let me know who does I suppose. Does anyone know how I go about contacting social services.

[KingCanuteIAm]

I would just ring your local council and ask for child protection.

[gothicmama]

check your local authority website, you may be better contactinf CAFCASS in th efirst instance

[jessiesmummy]

Any ideas on what I should say to dd?

[lessonlearned]

Contact Cafcass and ask for advice.

[jessiesmummy]

Ok will try cafcass does anyone know of any good websites to get more information on the law and what to do?

[Ivykaty44]

Tell your dd that this man is hr daddy and want to take her out and see her. Tell her that she will have a lovely time with him and be very positive about the visiting, reasure her that you and your dp will be there when she gets back.

When she gets back don't ask her anything about the time with her dad, let her tell you if she wants to and listen intently, but ask no questions.

Most children go through fazes of not wanting to go and visit there dad, but usually this passes very quickly in the scheme of visiting for 18 years a few weekends her and there is nothing.

I had no problem with my dd calling her step mum - mum but I know there would be a lot of woman and men that would get very uptight about their own child calling someone else daddy or mummy, and also getting uptight with a child calling by name rather than parentage name. Perhaps her father got uptight on this visit about what name she uses and this may have lead to a difficult time.

[Hassled]

As far as tomorrow goes, can your DD not develop a strange and mysterious illness overnight (or even just a touch of D&V) as far as your ex is concerned? That would buy you some breathing space.

[KingCanuteIAm]

Oh, sorry, I missed that the visit is tomorrow. I would be tempted by the illness route but this may not help you if you have to go to social services or back to court.

I agree that you have to big up time with dad but this is very hard if he is going to be angry with your dd.

hmm, overall, I would go with D&V tomorrow, perhaps you could offer a different day later in the week then get some advice before then? (you are right about CAB but they will know who you should talk to)

[jessiesmummy]

Great thanks. Also just occurred to me that my dd has been complaining about a headache and sore neck today which she hadn't had before yesterday. I am really worried that he may have done something to her. The next contact is not until next Sunday so I have got a few days to think and have sent hima letter outlining my concerns.

[jessiesmummy]

Also over the last couple of weeks since I mentioned child support he has been very argumentative and even had a go at my DH because I had not put him in the clothes he had requested. He has a history of violent outbursts.

[lessonlearned]

Again talk to cafcass in the first instance!!!
Get it all documented, including this conversation!!!

[KingCanuteIAm]

If you really think that then you need to call SS and outline your concerns with them.

[Surfermum]

Have you talked to your ex about this? Does he realise how upset she is about it. What's his version of events? Poor little girl, she's probably very confused as the two most important people in her life, her mum and her dad are telling her conflicting things.

To be honest, I can't blame him for being annoyed. I can still remember dh's face when dsd told him that her mum's partner had sat her down and told her that dh wasn't her real Dad that he was. Of course dsd knew nothing of how dh was feeling inside and we never mentioned it to her mum, we just ignored it.

But dh was a mixture of angry and upset that his dd was put in this position.

Can you put yourself in his shoes? Imagine if she came home from a visit, he had a girlfriend, and she was saying she had two mummies.

As for the clothes thing, we had this too. We would ask for dsd to come dressed for the park and being outside and she'd turn up without a coat or warm clothes - and this was in winter. What was his request about the clothes? Was it reasonable?

[jessiesmummy]

The clothes thing was silly he texted me requesting that she wear an outfit that he bought her ages ago the only thing he's ever bought her but it didn't fit so i put her in something else. He did not react well.
My dd has only known her dad for the last 4 months as when we were together he was a violent drunk.
She has been raised by my DH for the last two years and chose to call him daddy one day with no request from us. I think she just sees him that way.
I understand that this is hard for him I would find it hard too but he must except that this is a consequence of his former actions.
It is also no excuse to shout and scare a little child. She said that he had told her she wasn't allowed to call him mark. In my opinion she can call him whatever she chooses be it daddy mark or whatever she wants as long as shes happy.
She couldn't sleep at all last night which happens every week after contact when she is usually a good sleeper.
I personally want contact to go well because when she is older she will be glad that nothing was ever kept from her.