Advice Please

[Higgins]

Hi There, I'm new to this.

My DW & I are currently going through a tough patch, we normally go through our ups and downs but this is worst than ever before.

What started as a small "flair" up has now developed into a nightmare that has resulted in us being very close to the end.

I just can't seem to talk about anything else other than the arguement we just had or enquiring as to how DW is feeling about us. DW wants me to move out, but is happy for me to stay until Jan and spend Xmas with the kids. ( if it is that bad, would she not want me to move out now?)

In this period, DW wants us to be friends, but says she can never fall in love with me again. DW says she has put up a wall to stop me from "getting in".

But then every so often she will say lets try again? My problem is that as I really don't know what to expect next I don't know how to act. One day I come home and everything is fine, and the next day DW is very sad and doesn't want to be together anymore.

For instances, last weekend we go on very well and I thought all was OK, DW goes away for a couple of days and comes back saying it's all over again?

We are at councilling, which results in either a couple of good days where we try, or a couple of bad days where it brings up bad things about the relationship.

But at the moment I am waiting for and definitive answer.

We both say things we regret in an arguement, but the reasons for the split now appear to be as a result of the current arguement and not because of historical problems, the flair up was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm just told I don't understand.

Should I keep my mouth shut and my head down and wait and see, or do what I am asked to do and walk away?

[LoveMyGirls]

What about trying to make sure you do one thing everyday to show your DW that you love her, perhaps get a babysitter and take her out, think back to when you first got together/ got married and try to do things to jog her memory and feelings to when you were happier and in love?

Do you help round the house/ with the kids? Does she get regular lie in's, do you cook?

What was the thing that caused the flair up?

Could she be interested in someone else? (not nice to think about)

[Higgins]

I do help around the house, the flair up was because I felt that I wasn't being appriciated because of the amount I do.

DW has just got a new job and it has resulted in me doing alot more with the kids and around the house. Something I am more than happy to do, but felt that after a couple of weeks it was getting me down, so did the usual things of say my piece and the sulk for a couple of days (I'm not proud of that).

Not sure about an other person thing. At the start of the current period I was accused (something I would never do) but I was so confident in our relationship that I would never have thought the DW would be. She now has her mobile on silent constantly and actively either keeps her mobile on her or hides it away. When I ask her she says that she doesn't what me to see the things she tells people about me.

Have the option to go out together she says she doesn't want to or she is working.

If I tell her I love her, her response is that it's just words.

[BennyAndJoon]

Hi Higgins

Can I suggest that you try to say some positive things instead of negative? ANd as LoveMyGirls says do something each day to show that you love and appreciate her.

You said that you didn't feel you were being appreciated for what you were now doing, perhaps she feels/felt the same, especially if she was doing the larger share of the house and children before. You could put a positive spin on that instead - tell her how hard you are finding it and how much you appreciate how much she was doing / how easy she made the hard slog of housework and childcare seem?

The phone thing, I am sorry to say, is a classic way that people behave if they are having a secret relationship (not necessarily physical).

There is a theory on love that I once heard, which I don't buy into 100%, but there is some truth in it I think:- People aren't really in love with another person, they are in love with how that person makes them feel.

Maybe you will have to do some things that make her in love with how you make her feel.

This is probably a load of tosh , but maybe something to think about

[Higgins]

Thanks BennyandJoon, I think you might be right about the love thing.

I'm not so sure about the other person thing though. DW has always said that she would do something about the relationship before that ever happened (sort it or end it).

We do need to consentrate on the good things. There are good things in the relationship, just difficult to put them in perspective with the current feelings in the relationship.

So maybe I should keep my head down and my mouth shut and see what happens if I/we act normally, but will that just put the feelings away for a while rather than sort out a root cause?

I must admit that we can't carry on for much longer like this. DW says that if I move out and give her some space then we could be back together in a few months?

[LoveMyGirls]

How long has this been going on?
How long has the counselling been going for?
When did she start her new job?

I find when anything new/ stressful happens it can take a while for things to settle back down, maybe you do just need to be patient and give it time.

By the sound sof it helping out more has come as more of a shock than you thought and maybe she's feeling guilty you're having to do more or maybe she thinks you resent her new job, there are loads of what if's and maybe that I don't know because I don't know her.

You know her best, you know what makes her happy so just try your best and hopefully you can encourage her to want to try too.

Have you tried writing her a letter explaining how you feel?

When we went through counselling sometimes it did make things worse but in the end I'm so glad we made it through because we are much stronger now and everytime we do have a row we manage it much more effectivly and we learn from it and move on, we try not to have the same row. Quite often before I start a row or when he has just started one I will think are we going to split up over this (more often than not I think no it's not worth losing him over so if I can back down then I will)

[Higgins]

Hi LoveMyGirls,

I was really supportive of the new job at the start, and I admit it has hit me hard. I agree when I'm told that DW has supported me whilst kids were smaller and that it is my turn now to support her, but her job involves evenings and weekends and are just not very family friendly, but she is very happy doing it, so.

Current situation has been around 8-9 weeks. Counciling for 5 weeks and new job about 3 months.

I'll keep my head down for a bit, but am scared that we have gone too far with this one.

[LoveMyGirls]

What are the row's about? Is it the "I work harder than you, I'm more tired than you because x, y, z I deserve this because..."

[Pantofino]

I almost hate to say this, but related to earlier comments about another person....I cheated on a boyfriend a very long time ago. And the wanting to split up after a few days away, and the secret mobile stuff kind of rings bells with me.

It's something I am very ashamed about and my dp at the time had not done anything wrong....Guilt can make you behave in strange ways though....I don't want to make things worse, but it maybe something to consider. I'm very sorry to bring it up though...

[beanieb]

How did you get from this "the flair up was because I felt that I wasn't being appriciated because of the amount I do" to talking about separation?

[Higgins]

Beanieb, Am told that it was the straw that broke the Camel's back. The reason why it is still going on is because I am in a very insecure place at the moment. I'll ask if she's changed her mind and she has, and then suddenly she hasn't. This in turn causes another arguement. Feeling insecure at the moment so not re-acting as I normally would.

Our relationship tends to go like this.
Everythings fine - DW/Me does something that annoys the otherone - Otherone gets moody for a couple of days - It sorts itself out and things are fine again - repeat every 3-6 months.

I admit that I can be a bit sulky at times and unaware of how my actions effect DW, but on the whole I liked our life. It's just that this time things have sorted themselves out since the flair up. With both working, we can only see each other for sometimes 1 hours a day and these are normally when the kids are around. This results in either an arguement because we don't have time to talk or and arguement around the kids. (something that we have tried not to do)

The orignal agruement was over her new job and the effect it was having on the family (or me if I'm honest).

I really don't think there is someone else. I think the phone thing is just to prove something else. I only looked at her phone because she started looking at mine and asking questions.

I think the route cause is tiredness on bothsides, she thinks the route cause is me. I went to the Dr's and got some sleeping tabs to help with sleep. She went to the Dr's and was told to sort out the cause of the pressure/stress. (Which was me)

DW has looked into everything and has realised that on the whole she is OK without me (£/childcare is sorted by WFTC etc)

So I think I should just asking things and start acting like everything is normal and see how things work out over Xmas? Unless anyone has better suggestions?

[honestfriend]

Have you had a really honest talk about what bugs both of you?
It all sounds a bit childish tbh.
Why not book a session with a couples counsellor then you can both offload to someone non-judgemental and see where that leads you?

[beanieb]

so are you saying the original argument was you telling her that working as hard as she does in her job means that you have to do more housework?

Do you work?

Do you often have arguments about your work life ballance?

Why did it upset her so much this time, sounds tme like if it's the final straw then there is a whole back story which is relevant.

I think you should just stop asking. On the other hand she has asked you to move out?

[BEAUTlFUL]

Did you kick-off originally because - in short - she had got a new job & you felt pushed out? So you rowed/sulked to get a reaction? And she called your bluff and had enough of your being a baby, and now you're all "Oops! I didn't mean it! Shit, I've gone too far this time"?

She's probably either sick of your cries for attention, or making you sweat this one out so you don't try it again. Hopefully it's the latter.

[HappyWoman]

You asked whether you should stay or go. You need to make that decision for yourself if you really really want to turn things around you should not leave as it will show her how little you are prepared to fight for her and the marriage.

My h had an affair and we went through a horrid time before i knew about it - everything i did was wrong and we nearly split up over really little things - he was looking for a way out without carrying the blame.

Like you i didnt really want to end the marriage (may have done if i had known the truth then), so i worked on myself and changed some of my behaviour - my thinking was that even if the marriage did not work it would not be my fault and i would be a better person in myself if it did fail.

It was hard as i was putting in a lot of work (and he wasnt). But i did change little things - one of the arguments we used to have was that i did not appriciate him (whereas i thought he did not appriciate what i was doing). So i instead would tell him daily that i was proud of him and thanked him for working so hard for the family... blah blah blah...
Made more time just for us and did little things just for him - as well as taking some time for myself to look good and lose some weight (which did wonders for my self esteem).

I basically gave him very little to complain about - all the little niggles (and thats just what there were) i made sure were not there.
The guilt finally got to him and he confessed.

Our marriage has still survived and i think some of it was due to the fact that i did put that effort in before - he could not say he was leaving a moaning nagging bitch. I made sure he knew the lovely me underneath the mother/wife/housemaid...

I was not a doormat btw i just showed him the fun/real me.

Give it a go and the least you will have done is make some small changes to yourself.

You already know you have a problem with sulking - next time try saying 'i am sorry we dont agree on this topic but lets not let it destroy us' And then try not to sulk.
Be the first to make up and as i say give her no reason to find fault in you for the moment.

She is hopefully just tired from work and is tired of the same responses to your arguements.

Good luck

[higginswife]

Beautiful- you hit the nail on the head!
Beanieb, you said "Why did it upset her so much this time, sounds to like if it's the final straw then there is a whole back story which is relevant" you are also correct.
The little 'flair up' that hussle describes involved him screaming, shouting and throwing things in front of the DC's. I then tiptoed around him for a few days (as i do when these things happen) and then for some reason is hit me this time- who am I doing this for? I always think its better to stay for the children, but this behaviour is not good for them..... and quite frankly he makes me utterly miserable - oh and i'm a seasoned 'mumsnetter' who has named changed! As also I apologies for any spelling or grammer mistakes!

[higginswife]

Oh and i'm not having an affair- Higgin's is right, I don't want him reading my texts (which to retaliate he did reguarly) - I did however look at his texts, because he had sent me an odd text that didn't make sense, an explaination of which would have been he was having an affair.... when i looked at his phone he had deleted all his texts!

[higginswife]

Bump- for opinions now?

[BEAUTlFUL]

what did his odd text say?

[higginswife]

along the lines of 'I won't be around on friday because i'm working xx'- but I wasn't expecting him to be around.

[BEAUTlFUL]

what does he say about this text?

[Zebraa]

This is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are both sat at computers slagging off your relationship which you have spent sometime building, I imagine!!

Instead of sharing this with the world, talk to each other!!!

[poshwellies]

What zebraa said.

[BennyAndJoon]

[Higgins]

OK, it would appear that my DW has decided to get involved with this and detract from the advice I was looking for.

I would love to sit down and talk, but can't anymore as i am exhausted because all of the talking and we don't actually move on from historical problems. I think DW would agree.

I have been told that there is "no connection" anymore and given the choice of either moving out after christmas or moving permanantly into another room in the house and just raising the kids together and "helping around the house". Naturally there would be no physical relationship.

What worries me is that this is almost exactly what happened with my own parents when I was small and they spent probably 25 years lives in the same house, but apart. Something DW has said she wouldn't want, in the past.

Don't really want to do either, just want to be in a happy relationship and a happy family (I still think this is possible).

There is nothing I have written here that I haven't spoken to DW about in the recent past. Would still welcome some advice as to assisting in "re-connecting" with my DW. Councilling isn't really working because DW doesn't feel connected to me anymore.

I am trying to be nice, but this just comes across and false and put on?

[CatMandu]

Do you know this the last few posts on this thread have almost made me cry, I feel like banging your heads together.

I don't know how old your dc's are, but dh and I used to find ourselves getting caught up in what we called competetive tiredness/stress. It sounds like this to me. Face facts being parents is hard, now you have a choice either do it together and work as a team or do it separately. Doing it as a team means appreciating the other persons input. Higgins, it sounds to me like you would be far better off admitting to your dw that you now realise how hard it is looking after dc's and the home and appreciating how much she's done over the years. As for Mrs Higgins, you probably haven't been perfect either - who is fgs, but admit your part too.