Don't know what to do, think marriage is over, feeling very sad

[engel]

I think I want to leave my dh. Every day I convince myself it's what I need to do, and every day I talk myself out of it, look at him and think - oh it's not so bad, we can make it work. We have been together for 10 years, married for eight. DD coming up for three. I don't want him to touch me. Sex leaves me feeling empty and sad. I try to work things out in my head, sell the flat, rent a place with dd etc. but my mouth goes dry with fear. I work, he doesn't, that's part of the problem. I resent him so much, blame him for everything, expect the flat to be spotless and dinner to be cooked - because he's the one at home. Jealous because he gets to spend more time with dd. I don't want to be a working mum, I've supported him pretty much the whole time, emasculated him I guess, his self-esteem is low and he stopped applying for jobs a long while back. DD and I are taking a holiday without him, I fantasise that I will have the guts to come home and tell him its over.
Would appreciate your thoughts this Monday night...

[DoubleBluff]

Would counsellinh help?
Or has it gone too far?
Does he know you feel like this?

[engel]

He would never agree to counselling- I've suggested it in the past but he's always just refused point blank. I think we're beyond that stage tbh. He does know, but he would never initiate a conversation about it i.e. by asking "What's up?" Sometimes we don't speak to each other properly for days, just the necessaries concerning dd...the last time we talked about our problems, initiated by me as always, he said he would be in favour of us splitting up, maybe he's given up as well.

[DoubleBluff]

What about writing him a letter?
IF it really is over though you are going to just have to end it.
Do you still want to be with him when you are 60 and DD has left home?

[magsi]

Its hard when you are in a relationship and you 'carry' the man emotionally and financially. I remember being in one myself for a few years and I just longed for him to be more of a man in every way. I longed to be supported and looked after. Its hard when you are the stronger one in a relationship. Have you had the long 'chat' and told him exactly how you feel. If not, I think before you call it quits it is only fair to let him know how serious you feel at the moment about ending things. You have to give him a fair chance to REALLY do something about it and make things change for your family. If after making yourself understood, he makes no effort to make changes, I would draw the line under things. You sound like you are strong and could make it work with your dd.

[soapbox]

I really hate to be so practical, but have you taken legal advice as to what would happen regarding residence of your DD if you were to split. If he is the stay at home parent it might not be straightforward for you. Do you think he would contest it?

I am sorry for you all

[pinkteddy]

you could go to counselling by yourself which would help you make a decision. Then if he sees it helping you, he may agree to come?

[engel]

I like the letter writing idea, I could do that while I'm on holiday, and post it to him. Seems so strange that we have to communicate in such an old-fashioned way, after being together for a decade...thanks though, will try it. I don't know what the future holds for us, wish I had a crystal ball. I'm scared of making the wrong decision. DD senses the friction between us, and is quite aggressive towards him, she's a mummy's girl. I really want another baby but he put his foot down there too, and I've realised I think it would be a very bad idea for us- but would I find love again? I'm in my late 30s, no spring chicken, would it mean it's all over for me? All the uncertainties terrify me

[engel]

Thanks for all your posts.
Magsi, no, we've had lots of little chats over a period of months, but not THE long one.
Oh soapbox I haven't taken legal advice, no, we have a mortgage but he earns zilch, I don't think he would contest a split/divorce, but I don't know how much childcare he would be prepared to do, so yes I would have to factor in the cost of that as well as everything else - but then again I've been paying for everything anyway for the last 8 years.
pinkteddy I may well go to counselling alone. I feel desperate to talk to someone neutral, hence my first ever post on MN, I do have a couple of close friends but find it very difficult to discuss this with them, they all have problems of their own...

[magsi]

Who knows whether you would find anyone again. I sometimes wonder the same question. I have three kids and know I did not marry the right man. We have little in common. We have not had sex in over a year. We have been married for six years and at the moment and although we work well as parents together, loving, sharing and caring partners we are not. I do not have courage enough to make a break and I don't think I ever will. God listen to me going on about myself. I think you just have to think that you will now be a more than capable single parent living with dd and if you happen to ever meet anyone again, then it will be a bonus.

Be strong for your dd and yourself

[engel]

Magsi it's fine for you to go on about yourself. That's what this is all about. Why do you say you'll never have the courage? I really think that too sometimes, and I hate myself for being gutless and feeling so shrivelled up inside and in need of passion and tenderness again and life is too short and we have so little time on this earth and is it horribly selfish of me to want to live life to the full and I just be putting dd's needs ahead of my own now etc....
It's just so hard.

[crokky]

engel - maybe if he had a job, it would solve a lot of problems in one go - my DB did not have a job for a while, but getting one has totally transformed everything. sorry i don't have anything better to say.

[DaphneHarvey]

Hang on a minute:

"I work, he doesn't, that's part of the problem. I resent him so much, blame him for everything, expect the flat to be spotless and dinner to be cooked - because he's the one at home. Jealous because he gets to spend more time with dd."

If you want him to start working, or even looking for work, it isn't going to happen if you leave all the childcare to him and expect your needs and your child's needs to be taken care of too, every day. Take a look at the threads from frustrated SAHMs who can't make their working DPs understand how difficult/how much hard work it is to be at home all day, even with just one child.

What about using some of your holiday entitlement to stay home, look after everything else, and let your DP spend 10 hours a day concentrating entirely on himself and getting a new job, for say two weeks. Invest all the spare time you think you'll have into looking at nurseries/ childminders in your area. Then see how easy it is to look after a 3 year old child and cook and clean and deal with a partner who resents you for spending more time with the LO. Sorry but it sounds to me like you have unrealistic expectations.

[magsi]

Christ, me and you are thinking the same thoughts inside you know. I think I will never have the courage because I have made some bad decisions in my lifetime and cannot reall trust myself into making a life-changing decision of this enormity and that it is deffinitely the right thing to do. Also, I kind of hold on to what my nan once said to me and its that 'young people nowadays just don't putin the time and effort in making their marriages work'. We are happy on the surface. I think he knows that I am just not attracted to him anymore, its just having the courage to openly admit there is a problem. Besides, we have three small kids, one of which has cp and for this reason feel the need to keep this family together and I am sure this is how we will stay. I do feel terribly lonely sometimes though. Even with the family around you, you can really feel lonely sometimes.

[madamez]

If he doesn't have a job does he do anything around the house, cook, shop, wash up, hoover etc? WHy is he not working, anyway? There are fewer things more calculated to fill you with resentment than having to carry someone financially if they are contributing nothing at all to the household - they stop being a partner, lover and friend and become an unecessary burden.
Try making a list of the advantages and disadvantages of having this person living in your house and see if that helps you clarify your thoughts.
Good luck.

[engel]

DaphneHarvey - I should mention that dd already goes to nursery for seven hours a day - has been since she was 10 months old! So he really has no excuse, wouldn't you say? Having said that, he does do more than me and knows I would rather be the one to have more time for her, so it leaves us both feeling crap about the situation. I have taken time off work in the past so he could concentrate on getting his life in order, he does have ideas but never realises them...
Crokky, I agree, if he had a job it would really give him such a boost - and our relationship to boot. I would give anything for him to find a job, but I can't write applications for him. I have been known to circle the small ads though...
madamez, he does do a bit but I fear he spends most of his time surfing the net. I always have to write shopping lists, plan meals, even cook them sometimes when I get home for work
He just doesn't seem to have a plan. And that's just eating away at the love we once had for one another, casting a shadow over everything, I've run out of ideas.

[engel]

Magsi, I'm sorry you feel lonely. My mum says the same as your nan. She would be horrified if we split up, she thinks all kids need two parents to be happy. I'm not so sure, if those parents are passing each other like ships in the night, what kind of example is that setting for the kids? They also have the right to have happy, loving parents...even if there's only one.

[pinkteddy]

I think you will find the counselling helpful and it will help you work out a way forward. Send him the letter anyway. Is your dd at nursery every day? What did your dh do before? It sounds like he has lost confidence tbh. Maybe you should take dd out of nursery a couple of days a week, give him a role?!

[engel]

pinkteddy, he had a shot at a few things, most recently running a bar. That didn't work out, he didn't earn anything. She is in nursery every day, but I don't think he really wants to spend any more time with her than he already does. He sort of blames her for the fact that he's messed up jobwise, he's said as much. He didn't want children, went along with what I wanted. He loves her to bits, but doesn't want to be a house hubby

[magsi]

engel. Of course you are right, everyone deserves to be happy. But also I think stopping me is that old saying 'the grass is not always greener'. I also put my longingness for true happiness to the back of my mind and worry about being a good mum. God all this 'self-fulfilling' thoughts make you feel really selfish don't they. thats whats scary, knowing you have the power to split up your family. Do you think you could live with the guilt (I am asking this question to me and not you)

[DaphneHarvey]

I didn't realise from your OP that DD is at nursery every day. That makes all the difference to your situation. Now I understand what you are saying.

I think the whole current marriage breakdowon situation is fascinating. Our mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers could not possibly have had it easier than we do (mostly were SAHMs but without the modern conveniences) and yet more marriages stayed together. It is because women no longer feel subservient and shackled that there are more divorces: more women file for divorce than men.

It is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. Whats to be done about it?

Bring up our boys to be more responsible, is all I can think of. As the mum of a girl first, then a boy, I am conscious all the time of the need for my son to learn to take responsibility and share equally with my daughter in the requirements of domestic life. Hard because she is older, but I will do my darndest to be fair.

Particularly as I am married to a DH who is the oldest of two boys born to very young working class parents whose idea of parenting was to teach them to work hard at school (and I admire them for that) whilst quietly taking care of everything domestic for them in the background.

[engel]

I just know deep down that this is no good for either of us. I so often feel so low, I cry when I'm alone, I look at him and desperately want him to come up with some answers, help me out, being the sole breadwinner is a burden, if I complain he says I'm the lucky one and that he'd swap with me anyday. I believe him, but does that mean he should just give up looking for a job. He won't even sign on, because that would be acknowledging defeat, he says..

[madamez]

Daphne: it has to be said that the majority of women who stayed in crap marriages did so because there were very very few alternatives for them - next to no childcare, no benefits, few jobs... Every time I hear someone saying it was 'better' like that (and I'm not having a go at you) Iremember something I once read about how a stable society needs to deinfe a whole group of people as slaves in order to function...
Engel, I do think there is a possibility that your DP is suffering from depression - lethargy and feelings of failure can indicate that he's gone beyond being able to 'pull himself together'. But he could just be a lazy tosspot who'd prefer to blame everyone else for his failures than do anything about them. Do you think he might be persuaded to consult a doctor?
THe fact taht he won't claim benefits is not good, either. Depressed or not, he's behaving like a parasite and that's good for neither of you.

[DaphneHarvey]

Exactly Madam, more choices now = good thing for women. More marriages breaking up = probably a bad thing, overall. Not that I think for a moment anybody should stay in a bad marriage. Just that the keeping together of marriages and families relied heavily in the past on the lack of choice for women, but now we don't have a happier alternative that might keep more relationships together.

[engel]

thanks everyone, had to go offline earlier last night as dd woke up...madamez I do agree that dh needs help, and I think I'm the last person to be able to give it to him, if only he would admit there's a problem, that would be a start. But there are days when I do just think he's a lazy tosspot...thanks for all your comments, I will definitely try writing the letter and take it from there. Have a good Tuesday!