MIL problems, is this controlling behaviour or something else?

[StormyLovesOdd]

Okay, this is going to be long but I have been trying to think this through and wanted other opinions. My MIL is very controlling so much so that she has pushed and pushed until the only family she has left is us. These are examples of her behaviour.

Every night my DH has to ring her between 11pm and midnight, if he rings earlier she ignores the phone until he rings at his "allotted time" my words not hers. If he doesn't ring her she will us in a panic. If we have gone to bed and turned the phone off she will ring our neighbour, my Mum, my brother, DH's friends,etc,etc in a complete panic as she assumes we must be dead. If she gets no response from ringing she has been known to catch a taxi to our house and hammer on the door in the early hours of the morning until we let her in.

Since my DH was made redundant 2 years ago MIL now also rings at least 5 times during the day. It's got to the stage where we are missing lots of important calls because we have started ignoring the phone. I cleared out this weeks phone messages tonight and there were 37 messages from her in a week . The last message said in a really pitifully voice DHname "don't forget about me....... I'm still here". Argh, as if we could.

MIL comes to our house twice a week so it's not like we ignore her. It's really getting me down and is effecting our marriage as I am so sick of it.

MIL also has a picture of Jesus she keeps in her purse which was apparently blessed by a holly man and sprinkled with sacred water. she takes this picture out all the time and brushes it against us. I shouted at her to stop it last time I caught her doing it but she still does it. DH has spoken to her about this and she said she is blessing us to keep us all safe.

MIL has always been a bit strange for instance when she uses a bus she has to change her clothes when she gets home because she thinks she is going to catch something. She turns the smallest problems in her life or our life into a complete wailing drama, honestly I could write a book. My DH has an OCD and I think it comes from his mother.

We can't go no contact as she is 84 and literally has no one else but this is driving me mad and has now got to the stage where I don't even want to look at her anymore never mind have a conversation.

[BeenThereGotTheTShirt]

Sounds like she has OCD - she needs treatment to help reduce her anxiety levels. The NHS recommend CBT and SSRIs. Could you and DH have a talk with her and point out that her behaviour is causing problems for her and you and help get her an appointment?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obsessive-compulsive-disorder/Pages/Introduction.aspx

[StormyLovesOdd]

It's funny but I never even connected her behaviour to an OCD until I read my post back but I think you are right.

Doctors are another issue with her, she thinks they are all out to get her, she had flu 2 years ago and would not even see the GP then. MIL is very set in her mind and her ways and refuses to listen to anyone.

I think I probably need coping strategies for dealing with her as she will never see a doctor or admit she has a problem and at 84 I think it's too late to change a lifetime of this behaviour.

[StormyLovesOdd]

DH is an only child. MIL does have other family near but treated them all so badly she has pushed everyone else away.

She does have a friend who lives close, they go to church together and I dread to think how she would be without her.

[something2say]

She has mental health issues there....
Can you widen your network of support?

[Hakluyt]

What would you think of her behaviour if she wasn't your mil?

[JaceyBee]

It's very likely she has OCD, and I don't mean to be doom mongering but CBT or any therapy doesn't have a great success rate in people her age, as it's just so deeply ingrained. Your DH on the other hand should definitely seek treatment if he's not already.

I would contact SS and GP too.

[splendidpup]

This is a difficult one. She clearly has some mental health problems and possibly the start of dementia as her behaviour has ramped up recently. My Dad has mild OCD (minor on the scale of things, not officially diagnosed or treated, but really obvious that's what it is, to us) and when he developed Alzheimers the obsessions have become far worse. Well, not really worse, but more difficult as in the past he could to some extent control them, but now he has no memory he gets stuck in loops of behaviour as each time it's like the first time he's thought of it.

If she refuses to see Doctors, it's going to be hard to do much, other than manage the effect on you.

ocduk.org has some great information for family of OCD sufferers. You have to approach this with a combination of compassion (she can't help being this way) and firmness (you shouldn't feed into it or be effected by it). Your DH has made a mistake in pandering to it - it doesn't ease their anxiety in any way, it makes it worse, and it can make your lives hellish. I always refused point blank to get involved in my Dad's obsessions - for example I would never agree a set time for anything (calls, visits) but keep them vaguer such as 'before lunch' or 'around tea time'. Otherwise he's on edge the whole time before the 'deadline' and if you miss by 5 minutes he'd be distraught.

He needs to sit down with his mum and say that he knows she feels extreme anxiety about you all, but her way is just feeding that anxiety and is effecting you all badly, and it absolutely isn't going to continue any longer. He needs to be cruel to be kind - ultimately taking a firmer line will reduce her anxiety even if it increases short term. No more daily phone calls. At any time. She sees you twice a week. He could offer to phone another couple of times a week without setting a particular time. If she misses the call, tough. The late night calls are preventing you both from sleeping when you want, or having a social life, and that won't be tolerated any more. If she freaks out at the late night calls not happening it needs to be ignored. Let her turn up on the doorstep. Just take her home without reassuring, commenting, blah blah, just say 'you shouldn't be here Mum, I'll take you home'. And that's it. A bit like training a kid to stay in bed.

The holy picture thing in a way seems harmless but again it's feeding her anxiety problems. I'd simply tell her that if she brings it out in your presence again you'll remove it from her, as it's something else that is just making her anxieties worse. And follow through on that.

[splendidpup]

And tell all the other people she rings to block her number, and tell her that you have instructed them to do this, so not to call them again. What she is doing is harrassing people. Mention that police can get involved in this sort of behaviour. So you are protecting her by preventing it happening again.

[StormyLovesOdd]

I feel asleep worrying about all this last night. Thank you all for your replies.

It is not just age related, MIL's has always been like this but the strange behavour did ramp up when my lovely FIL died 5 years ago.

I think she is lonely but she will not put any effort into making new relationships and only has one friend. She really has built her whole world around this friend and my DH. I try to help her as much as I can but we do not get on very well, my MIL has made it plain a she does not like me and has never really accepted me even though I have been with my DH since I was 16 (I am now 42). I think she has always thought I took DH away from her as she is very possessive, I am easy gong and have always tried not to let it bother me but over the years it does get you down.

DH has a contamination OCD, he was diagnosed with this 6 years ago and takes medication for it thought it doesn't really seem to help much. He has had CBT in the past and is on the waiting list for another block of sessions. DH has tried to talk to his Mum about all this but she litterally talkes over the top of him and does not listen or accept anything he says, really she still treats him like a child and he lets her because he is too scared to confront her and have the face the tears and tantrums.

Because my DH has contamination OCD every time my MIL touches him with the "blessed" card, he feels the need to change his clothes and then spends the next 30 minutes washing his hands and arms. Honestly it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

I can't believe I did not associate MIL's behaviour with an OCD, I supposte its because its so different to DH's behaviour, its really obvious to me now. There is no way I will be able to get her to see a doctor, just the mention of any medical intervention sends her into a complete panic, she is terrified of dying and refuses to acknowledge any kind of illness in herself or others.

I think MIL would have the same problem with Social Services as doctors, because it would just bring home to her the fact that she is ill.

Good idea about asking all our friends and neighbours to block her number though I don't feel comfortable doing this as she is 84 and one day will really need our help, its like the boy who cried wolf though isn't it. She panics and rings so often that when she really needs us we will probably not believe her. Its so hard knowing how to help, I don't want to leave her stranded on her own but my she does test me sometimes.

Sorry... another massive post.

[splendidpup]

I feel for you.

I know I could not live with someone with OCD. Dad's was one of the factors I left home at 17. I love him and know he can't help it but it's so controlling/difficult to live with. Look at the ocd website - it has some really useful info and advice for you.

There's not a lot you can do about MIL if DH won't stand up to her and keeps pandering to it. Unless you can get him to accept it's actually the worst approach with regards to her own welfare and development of the OCD getting worse.

If you can disengage yourself from it all as much as possible, do so, it's not right for you to have to suffer such extreme effects all the time. Don't feed it with either your DH or your MIL. DH has to keep changing clothes? OK, he does all his own laundry then I hope. MIL keeps ringing late and DH won't tackle her on this? Go to bed and make DH sit up alone waiting for the phone call, go out for the evening alone and leave DH to deal with it. Your own mental health and welfare is put under extreme stress by all this - as you said, you couldn't sleep last night.

These two people are in the grip of a horrible disorder but they aren't doing a lot to help themselves. There really is no need to let it effect you so much. It's the same as if someone had two broken legs and instead of using wheelchair/crutches to get about, and doing their physio, and working towards their recovery and living as normal a life as possible, they choose to lay in bed immobile all day expecting you to wait on them hand and foot, and making their recovery unlikely. You wouldn't feel guilty in refusing to cooperate with that, and you shouldn't feel guilty about refusing to cooperate with their OCD.

I think you need to start putting your own needs and welfare first here. You can't do anything about them.

[JaceyBee]

Hmm, the problem you often get with CBT is that it deals with the symptoms but not the causes, so you tend to get a kind of 'revolving door' thing going on. Your DH shouldn't be changing this clothes if touched by the picture, he should be sitting with the anxiety and allowing it to come down gradually on it's own, which it will. If he's had CBT before he should know all this. Therapy is only affective if people actually but the stuff they learn into practice!

[StormyLovesOdd]

Spendid - It worries me that you left home at 17 because of OCD behavour as we have a much loved and longed for 6 year old DD. DH is brilliant with her and a great Dad but his OCD does get in the way sometimes. I shield her from all of this as much as possible but as she gets older she is bound to notice it more.

Hope you don't mind me asking and feel free to ignore but have you ever suffered from OCD? I only ask because I am worried our DD will pick up the OCD as I have read that it is learned behavour, so far I have not spotted anything, she just sometimes signs "oh Dad's doing his silly washing again" which I take as a good sign.

I do keep away from it as much as possible and do not pander to the OCD, I try and look at it as another seperate (and very annoying) person in our relationship as DH can't help it and is a good person appart from this. He has his own washing basket to keep his clothes away from mine and our DD's as he often washes things over and over again and I was throwing away my mouldy clothes which had been left wet at the bottom of the washing pile under all his stuff and could never find anything.

Jacey - DH does know the things he should be doing but he often goes along with the OCD as (he thinks) it is easier and he has suffered from some horrible panic attacks in the past. I wait in hope for the day that he confronts it rather than gives in.

At least now I have realised what is wrong with my MIL I might be able to be a bit more sympathetic, I always thought she was just difficult and possibly a bit narsasistic (spelling ?).

[splendidpup]

Hello, don't be too worried, it was only one factor, and there were plenty of others, mainly wanting to rush into being 'grown up'. My parents were great parents and there was no big problem or disagreement involved. I just found it bloody irritating not to be trusted to do the things that Dad was rather obsessive about doing himself repeatedly and noone else being allowed to. Mainly closing up house at bedtime, no one else could be trusted to turn off lights/shut windows/lock door/unplug every electrical appliance/make sure all plug switches were in off position, and he'd pace around willing you to go to bed at 10pm so he could do it (several times) and relax. Poor Mum is currently being forced up to bed around 8.30pm!

I think that as long as your DH keeps it to himself, ie isn't starting to make your DD wash and change her clothes an unreasonable amount, or stop her touching things, it'll be Dad's annoying/daft quirk and nothing more.

None of us (4) kids developed anything. We just kind of roll our eyes and joke about it.

[StormyLovesOdd]

Thanks Splendid, that's really reassuring. Your poor Mum having to go to bed at 8:30pm, I don't think I could put up with that either. I am quite tough with DH but I think that is the only way to deal with it.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

What happened when she calls round everyone if you don't call her at night?

What would happen if you said that you were changing your phone line to 'incoming only'?

[StormyLovesOdd]

Luckily It has only happened a handful of times, MIL tries my mum first, my Mum is lovely and knows what MIL is like, she just tries to reassure her and then unplugs the phone so she can't keep ringing, my brother does the same. She only has mobile numbers for everyone else. The worse one was when she rang our next door neighbour at 2am. We woke up to The next door neighbour hammering on our front door, really scary in the middle of the night, I thought someone was trying to break in.

MIL once reported us as missing to the Spanish police (years ago) when we were on holiday. We were staying in a hotel in Majorca and hotel reception rang to make sure we were okay.

It's only writing all this down that I realise how bizarre it all is, this has Ben my life for nearly 30 years, it's normal to me.

[StormyLovesOdd]

Been not Ben, sorry.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Ok, what I am trying to get at is what happens then? Do you tell her 'look this is crazy. You need to stop this nonsense now' or 'oh sorry, we should have called you. Speak to tomorrow'?

[StormyLovesOdd]

MIL completely panics, turns up at our home in a taxi and shouts and hammers on our door until we let her in. We tried ignoring this once but she woke up our DD and most of our neighbours. Once in the house she cries shouts, screams at us and accuses my DH of not caring about her, last time this happened it took us hours to calm her down enough to get her in the car and take her home. She seems to have no concept of how her reactions effect everyone else especially DH and our DD.

My DH does not help as he gives in to her every time but he has his own problems and MIL's reaction makes his OCD worse.

[JaceyBee]

Oh my god what a mess! This is an extremely fucked up dynamic. The both of them should be in systemic family therapy together really. Can't see that happening tbh though. I couldn't live like that, you must have the patience of a saint!

[Superworm]

Next time she turns up shouting and hammering and hysterical, I would call an ambulance. They can assess her and take her in for treatment if she needs it.

You cannot live like this and have your DD to think of. It's sad she has MH problems but there is support and treatment for them too.

[StormyLovesOdd]

DH is the only proper relationship I have ever had, we fell in love when I was 16 and its just gone on so long that its all normal to me. MIL does not get this bad very often, only if there is a problem which means DH can't ring her for some reason. She is just very hard to deal with and needy all the time and does rule our life now that FIL has gone but at 84 I think its too late to try and force her into tackling all this now.

Its only from reading threads on MN that I have realised how much I am putting up with.

Superworm - I think the ambulance is a very good idea if we ever get into that awful situation again and can't cope with her, it would be out of my hands then wouldn't it as the NHS would take over.

Day to day I think I am stuck with things the way they are unless I leave DH and despite having bad days when I think I should go and take DD with me I still love him, he's a good person and a great Dad and he can't help being the way he is, its an illness. I do wish he would do more about it though. I am going to talk to him tonight, maybe the GP can change his medication or something as the meds he takes now really don't seem to help that much.

[JaceyBee]

No, medication is nowhere near enough to treat OCD and should only be alongside therapy, never instead of. I'm sorry but he CAN help being the way he is, it's called taking responsibility for himself, getting back into therapy and taking it seriously this time.

I know that sounds harsh and it's not his fault he has OCD, in fact it's fairly obvious whose fault it is, but he needs to sort this out for the sake of his family and stop being so selfish IMO.