I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

[wyrdyBird]

Well, firstly, he isn't hurting in the way you would be hurting. He's been quite happy to bully you up to this point. Now you have taken his verbal punchbag away (you) and called time on it. This is what has upset him.

You feel guilty because it's normal for fully functioning people not to like upsetting people we are close to. But you can't stay there to be bullied just because he gets upset when you leave. And please note, he has never felt a scrap of guilt about how he's treated you.

It's normal to feel unsure at this point. Can I point you to Cogito's excellent post on 1st May, 17.31, on your old thread, because this will remind you of why you feel this way and why you can't really afford to let it stop you leaving - or staying away.

[knowledgeispower]

I followed your old thread and have just re read Cogs post as mentioned above...just brilliant! Amazing clarity in the FOG... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

I'm leaving too, I'm still scared, guilty, and feel obliged to 'look after' this man!

The bad feeling you describe seeing him hurting is completely normal. This is because you are a good person!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

" A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. "

The above is his voice, not yours. He's been saying this stuff to you for so long that it starts to feel like your own thoughts. Brainwashing, for want of a better word. Emotional abuse has that effect.

That he only promised to deal with his temper when you are walking out of the door says everything you need to know. A decent man would behave decently without having to be backed into a corner. So ignore.

I think you've been incredibly courageous and resourceful and I am very confident that, with every day that passes, his voice will get quieter and quieter and you'll start to believe in yourself.

Do you have people you can be with IRL?

[notmakingsense]

thanks everyone I just think I need to know its not all my fault if that makes sense.

last night was awful and he appeared to not know that he had me walking on eggshells or that dc was frightened says I should have told him I thought it was obvious as I have withdrawn into myself for my own sanity. He actually said sorry last night about hurting me so badly and asked if we could try to work through his issues as a family that he would go get help but I just dont feel the same now though I keep on doubting myself as I can acknowledge that i have issues and insecurities money and was trying to deal with it. It must have been annoying but that doesn't excuse shouting at dc. God I feel like a complete b*h for saying no im going.

cog yes im at my mum n dads thankfully.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Sometimes, in order to cling onto what's left of your sanity & your self-respect, you must act like a complete bitch. Remember, he's backed into a corner and looking at losing a very cushy life, so he's promising ribbons and lollipops to lure you back in. If you walked back over that threshold..... snap!.... that trap would close so fast behind you and he'd be back to his old bullyboy bullshit so quickly, it'd make your eyes water.

So embrace your inner bitch because, right now, she's making all the right decisions and keeping you and your DCs safe.

[Middledaughter]

Notmakingsense I'm in awe. Well done for being so brave. I've read your old thread and recognise so much of it at the moment. I hope you're starting to get some rest at your parents.

Luckily my DH doesn't shout at kids he just switches the TV on and does other stuff. He does however shout at me! I'm also terrified about shared residency as my DH drinks quite a bit too. This apparently is all my fault. I'm also soft on the kids and uptight about money amongst a host of other things...

You have been a real encouragement to me that there is hope. I've got a solicitors appt booked for a week tomorrow and it can't come soon enough.

Very best of luck to you and your family.

[notmakingsense]

cog I know what your saying is right I just feel so guilty right now honestly he made it seem like I was being harsh to not want to work on it said so thats it then 8 years just like that thanks bye see you later its been a quick decision for you. I told him we were going round in circles and I didnt know what he was waiting for me to say he said well to fight for us he couldn't believe I was just going to let him go and I do feel shit it has been a long time and in all honesty its the only serious relationship I have been in so only serious break up I dont know what to do or how to act. I hadn't planned on it happening last night so havent seen a solicitor as yet will that matter?

[notmakingsense]

middledaughter I feel anything but ive only communicated with him by text so far but he is coming later to collect money (hasnt got a pin for joint account so ive drawn it out) he isnt being horrible or nasty which has thrown me he still has the car but I dont want to rush in and say you must give it to me as we will need to speak to see if he is keeping on our house etc

[mammadiggingdeep]

Cog- you're brilliant.

I needed to read "listen to your inner bitch" right now. You're right, when we're nice people we feel guilt and sadness for the other person even when they've treated us terribly.

Op- be strong, stay focused on why you've made this decision. I'm over a year on, still having wobbles but you have to believe in yourself and why you've decided this course of action.
wishing you luck.

[AcrossthePond55]

What you need is breathing space and time to let your 'mental dust' settle. Well, that and legal advice.

If he really said "I can't believe you're really going to let me go" that's a monumental ego right there, that is! And doesn't he realize you've been silently 'fighting for us' without his help for sometime now?

A lot of what you mention in your other thread are things that my DH & I went through. The money paranoia (mine), the 'shoutiness' (his) and the differences in childrearing philosophy. I wasn't a SAHM, but that shouldn't make a bit of difference. Both partners should be valued for what they contribute, be it income or home-keeping. And both partners should be concerned with the needs of the other. We were able to work things out with couples counseling. There were changes that we both needed to make. And we were both motivated to save our marriage, no matter what it took. I think if I had told him that to save our marriage he'd have to dance down the street naked, he would have done so. But, so would I have done for him.

So, just try to regroup yourself. Try not to let anyone else tell you what you want or make you feel guilty for a well thought out decision. If you've decided that you're done, then that's that.

[HMQueen]

This feels awful when you leave or make them leave. What has kept me going this time is remembering the time I went back to him before children and then regretted it; the time I didn't follow through when he asked if I wanted him to move out 2 years ago - both times he was generally a bit apologetic for a short time then morphed back to how he was before and worse. I've wavered this time too, but 6 months down the line post moving out there is no admission of poor behaviour - all "poor me" "you were never interested in me" "I'm a good man!" - my brain keeps telling me that he's the same, nothing's changed. On the other hand, if your DH really appreciates the damage he's done and makes a real effort over a long period of time (I'm talking months) then you can reassess then

[notmakingsense]

Its gone from bad to worse tonight ive been sobbing for about half an hour he came down wouldn't come in to my parents spoke to me on the doorstep asked was I really not coming home said he had changed his shift and would be going to doctors tomorrow to get help with his anger bit said thats not going to be enough is it and I said no not now but felt like crap doing so he looked like he had been crying all day I have never in 8 years seen him cry we spoke briefly about practical things and will need to go together to sort tenancy etc but....

This is what has destroyed me and the confidence I had in my decision he took our eldest dc out to the car to speak to him which in hindsight I shouldnt have let happen but after dc came back in he asked me to go into toilet with him and broke down in tears which set me off.said daddy said mummy daddy him and youngest dc cant live together anymore that he would miss him and daddy needs to see a doctor about all his shouting. Fuck my heart is breaking for my dc and I feel like the worst mother in the world

[notmakingsense]

acrossthepond yes he really did say that and right now I think he would do anything if id go back but there is no fight left in me

[AcrossthePond55]

Then that's that, isn't it? He shouldn't have said that to your dc, although it's good he at least acknowledged his anger issue to dc. But I'd tell H that in future, any talking to dcs should be done jointly so you can both assure them that you love them, that things will be different, but that different can be good sometimes.

You aren't a bad mother! You are a mother just like the rest of us. Someone trying to do the best for her children with what she has been handed. So put some cello-tape on that heart of yours. A mother's heart always seems to have some cracks in it. But that's just because it's so full of love that it's bursting!

[notmakingsense]

Thanks acrossthepond it still feels like it though like its my fault his world is upside down. I just dont know what to do or how to do it

[Trollsworth]

It's his own fault. He's an adult, not a four year old, and he has had long enough on this planet to know that being a bully is wrong. He is not your child!

As for your actual children, explain that your first job as their mother is to turn them into happy adults, as safely as possible. They will not be happy adults if they live with someone who behaves like that, so you are taking them to live somewhere else. Yes daddy might be sad, it is up to daddy to make himself happy. Yes, I understand you miss him. I miss my dad when I don't live with him. When daddy is feeling well enough to keep his shouting under control, you will certainly spend more time with him.

[notmakingsense]

Thanks troll thats a good way of explaining I think eldest dc was so upset last night that im not sending him to school today but I am going to try get an appointment to talk to someone to let them know what's going on

Anyone any other advice? Eldest is almost 6 and needs me to be strong I so dont feel it! Youngest thankfully wont remember this.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Please cut yourself off from him now. No more big doorstep dramas (or toilet breakdowns) that upset you or the children. He's a manipulative bully and this is just more of the same treatment. The problem is an adult one and he was quite deliberately vile to drag the children into it and try to use them to coerce you into staying. You are not a bad mother for wanting better for your family but, by doing that, he is the very worst kind of father.

Give it a day or two and he'll stop sobbing and start with things like threats (Social Services, suicide, court battles etc) Stay with your family, cut off all but essential contact and try to give yourself some thinking space.

[notmakingsense]

cog oh I really hope not I have unfortunately to stay in touch just now as we need to sort out tenancy bank accounts car etc its all such a mess im going to see dc school today too incase he needs help at school

Im still feeling rubbish about it as im the one who said no to working on it and the worst part is if he had truly worked on changing himself I may have seen how I felt in 6 months to a year but after yesterday I just cant wouldn't put my ds through that twice.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Stay in touch about practical matters but do it via e-mail rather than phone or in person. His behaviour is bullying, manipulative and volatile so you need to create distance and also keep a record at the same time.

It's early days so you're bound to be feeling a little disorientated and wondering if you've done the right thing. But you know that he is never going to change and you also know that you've done the right thing for yourself and your DCs. Well done taking back control but keep it going by communicating intelligently and in writing. He's going to turn nasty at some point so anticipate it.....

[notmakingsense]

Im coping by taking care of practicalities but he just turned up again to talk he was begging for another chance saying he was being referred to anger management that he wanted us to go to couple councillors together to see if it could be worked on but I just cant I find it hard to say to him that I dont love him anymore that even if he did change I cant just forget whats gone on before and that its changed how I feel about him so I couldn't stand him touching me or being around me. But the way he is saying things its like he is saying yes its mainly my fault but partly mine and its me thats not prepared to give it another go im worried its all being turned around so im unreasonable and dc and his family will hate me fuck fuck fuck.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Please don't talk to him. I told you he'd start to get nasty and he's already using all of these opportunities to make you out to be the bad guy. Look how it's making you feel. Unreasonable, at fault, his family will hate you..... guilt-trip, guilt-trip, guilt-trip. If he wants to undergo anger management , great, he can go ahead and do that any time he likes. It doesn't mean you have to go trotting back. Joint counselling is NOT advisable where bullying and abuse are present because a) you've decided there's no future and b) he'll use anything you say in the sessions as ammunition.

So no more conversations... please. If he turns up again don't answer the door.

[wyrdyBird]

You don't owe this man a relationship no matter what he does, or however he tries to guilt trip you ( which is all he's doing. And he can't even do that without trying to blame you.)

You don't have to go back into an abusive relationship because someone will think you unreasonable if you don't.


Please follow cog's wise words. Embrace your inner b*tch, stand firm, and don't engage with him. He doesn't get to decide how your life goes anymore. He doesn't get to decide when he talks to you.

You are in charge of your life now.

[captainmummy]

OP - it is NOT your fault. He is the abusive bully, it is HIS fault! If he starts again with the 'you won't try' - tell him that when he has anger management, when he has tried, then maybe in 6 months/a years time, you will reconsider getting to know the new him.

Don't be guilted into it. Its his fault, he is the one who needs to change. And please don't let him drag the dc into it - they are not old enough to cope with the blaming/guilt/adult emotions.

Please go No-Contact. It is not helping anyone.

[notmakingsense]

Thanks cog and everyone I just feel like an utter bitch like what the dc going through a family breakdown is my fault as he is prepared to get help he still loves me I am his best friend I couldn't even look at him I was feeling so guilty and then while supportive people will say well if your sure thats what you want you will be fine he wouldnt come into my parents house but does want to collect dc from school weds then bring him back thus I think. What do I do I dont want to be difficult its important for dc to spens time with him I think god someone talk some sense into me.