Chances of year 1 places coming up @ preferred school

[motherunearthed]

My friend secured places for her kids at a new school, but cos they could not offer a place for the eldest until September 2010 (Year 3) she did not accept the place straight away and took a couple of weeks to think about it. She lives just outside the catchment area and the place in year 1 has been taken by someone else.

She is kicking herself at not accepting the place there and then, but did not want to end up sending her kids to two different schools. She has a place for her eldest providing no one else in the catchment area applies between now and September.

I have tried to reassure her saying that someone in year 1 is bound to leave during the next term, but how likely is this when schools seem to be so oversubscribed?

The LEA have said she will have to apply for a different school, but there are no places at any of the catchment schools!

Should she wait or apply to a different school?

[admission]

Sorry but there is no way to guess when another place may come up. It could be next week, but more likely is going to be at the end of the summer term if at all.

The parent has to put both children into schooling or alternatively home educate. The LA is not going to allow them to not be educated for a whole term,so she will have to apply to a different school or go to appeal over both children at this school. There is something slightly "off" in the idea that a place can be offered in september for year 3 - why can't it be offered now?

[NoahAndTheWhale]

In DS's school there are very few children who leave and enter the school at times other than the beginning of being at school.

I agree with MintHumbug that she needs to have another plan ready.

[NoahAndTheWhale]

I suppose the year 3 place could be to do with infant class size of 30 which wouldn't apply from year 3 onwards.

[motherunearthed]

thanks for your replies.

She can get a year 3 place as the class size can go up from 30 to 35.

Home school is not an option as she works and has become a single parent - the reason for the change of school.

The closest school that has places is over five miles away, and surprise surprise it has poor facilities, high staff turnover and a poor reputation - it has places cos no one wants to send their kids there. She has no other option and is going to send them there and hope that a place comes up at the preferred school.

She lives in a city - which doesn't help as there seems to be so much more demand for school places. I think she took it for granted that her kids would get a place, it is shocking that there is such a shortage of school places. So much for kids being able to walk to school and be part of the community like when i was young!

[admission]

motherunearthed,
There is something not quite right here.

Unless the school has an admission policy to take pupils from an infant school at year 3, there will be only one admission number for the school. If the admission number is 35, which seems likely if they can go to 35 in year 3, then the rules state that the school has to admit upto the admission number providing that you make an official application.

Of course there is still a need to meet the infant class size regs, which is why classes are limited to 30, but the admission authority (LA?) is guilty of maladministration if they are not admitting to the admission number of 35 at the point where pupils are initially admitted to the school. I would accept that once the year group is settled in place and there is one class of 30, the LA can then argue that infant class size regs do come into play.

You need to establish exactly what the admission number is for the school, though whether the above actually helps your friend in getting their children into the school is debatable.

[gingernutlover]

a school near us used to be split site (infant in one place juniors in another) and is now one big site, they take 90 per year in reception (up til year 2), but can then offer another 6 places once the child reaches year 3 - perfectly legal and will be written into the schools admission policy.

your poor friend motherunearthed - what a terrible situation to be in, fingers crossed she can move them both soon.

[admission]

It is perfectly correct that if infants transfer to either a junior or primary school at the end of year 2 then there can be a higher PAN for year 3. However if the school is a primary school then there is an admission number for each year group, which unless it changes means that every year should have the same maximum number of pupils.
If it starts at 30 in reception, it cannot change at year 3 to 35, it must still be 30. Pupils can obviously be admitted under appeal but that is a different situation.
Motherunearthed you need to establish the admission number because this is the key to knowing what chance there is of getting in under appeal.

[prh47bridge]

I have another concern in addition to the questions about the admission number which Admission raises.

If I understand your original post correctly, your friend was offered a place in Y1 for one of her children. She took a couple of weeks to think about it and then found the place had been taken by someone else. If that is correct, the LA may have broken the rules.

Paragraph 1.50 of the School Admissions Code says that once an offer has been made it can only be withdrawn in limited circumstances. One situation where they can withdraw an offer is where the parent has failed to respond within a reasonable time. However, if they are going to withdraw a place for this reason they MUST first remind the parent that they need to respond. They MUST give the parent a further 7 days to respond and point out that the place may be withdrawn if they do not do so. They CANNOT withdraw an offer simply because another child has applied who is higher priority.

If your friend was not sent 7 days notice of their intention to withdraw the place unless she accepted it the LA has broken the rules. If that is the case she should complain to the Admissions Manager and Director of Childrens Services.

I can detect a possible pattern in the LA's behaviour.

• They say there is a place in Y3 but they can't offer it until September in case someone who is higher up the admission criteria applies. This is illegal. If an application is received and there is a place available they MUST offer that place immediately. That is the law.

• They offer a place in Y1 but withdraw it immediately when someone who is higher up the admission criteria applies. This is a clear breach of the Admissions Code.

As Admission says, we need to know the admission number for this school. However, if what you have said is accurate, the LA has some serious questions to answer.

[hocuspontas]

Yes, the year 3 place is confusing. She either has a place or not. Has the school just told her that she is top of the waiting list at the moment and hasn't actually offered a place? If so, I would definitely be applying elsewhere.

[motherunearthed]

The whole thing is very confusing and stressful! I've told my friend to look at the schools admission code and perhaps she may have grounds for appeal. She had not refused the place in yr 1 and asked if it was ok to think about the implications of having 2 children at 2 different schools.The school said that was ok and gave her a date to respond by. In the meantime someone else who lives in the catchment area has applied and been given the place and the offer to my friends DC withdrawn!

The school has two infant classes per year limited to no more than 30 per class for reception, Yr1 & 2 not sure why they have said they can accommodate higher numbers in year 3 & 4.

LEAs should not be allowed to offer places and then withdraw them!

[admission]

motherunearthed,
If the school made the offer in writing, there is a very clear case of maladministration if they subsequently withdrew it, especially if they offered the time to consider the options. I suspect though that the offer was not in writing. If the offer was only verbal, could I suggest that your friend, write to the school and ask why they withdrew the verbal offer. Hopefully the school will reply not realising they are confirming an offer was made!

[prh47bridge]

LAs are NOT allowed to offer places and then withdraw them other than in very limited circumstances. The LA had no right to offer the place to someone else until your friend had either refused the offer or it was after the date by which she had to respond. Based on what you have posted, this is an open and shut case. The LA HAVE to admit your friend's child. They will kick up a fuss about it and try to pretend that they are in the clear but your friend should stick to her guns. This is a clear breach of the School Admissions Code.

Your friend should complain in writing (email will do) to the Admissions Manager and the Director of Children's Services pointing out that the offer was withdrawn in clear breach of paragraph 1.50 of the School Admissions Code. She should give them a deadline to respond - I would go for 7 days. If they fail to reinstate the offer she should take the case to the LGO.

Turning to the year 3 question, it looks like the school has an admission number of 60. The admission number should be the same all the way through the school. However, class sizes may vary. It is possible, for example, that the school has 7 classes in total covering years 3, 4, 5 and 6. That would lead to an odd class arrangement with roughly 35 in each class.

As has already been said, if there was a place in year 3 the LA should have offered it straight away. They are not allowed to keep the place back until September. Your original post suggests that there is a place available but that they wanted to hold it back until September in case someone in the catchment area applied. That is against the law.

If this is the case, your friend should also complain about this in writing to the Admissions Manager and the Director of Children's Services.

[prh47bridge]

If the offer was made verbally by the school Admission is right that you will need to get them to admit it in writing. Similarly, if the position on the Y3 place is that the school said verbally that a place would be available in September provided no-one else applied, your friend should ask the school to confirm the position in writing.

Once you've got written confirmation on both these points, it is time to make the complaints I mentioned in my last post.

For the Y1 place the LA may insist that you appeal even when you show that an offer has been made and withdrawn. Provided the panel is properly trained that shouldn't be a problem - it should be an easy win.

If the position on the Y3 place is as described, i.e. there is a place available but the school won't offer it in case someone else applies, I would be a little surprised if they tried to force an appeal as I can't see any way they could present a case to defend that position.

[motherunearthed]

Thanks for your advice admission & prh47bridge. She does have letters from both the LEA and the school oferring the place and is going to email both the school and LEA today as you have advised.

I think yhe LEA perhaps do realise they have made a mistake as they have been putting pressure on her to accept the places at the other school.

[prh47bridge]

If she's got it in writing they are in big trouble. As far as I can see their position is completely undefendable on both the Y1 and the Y3 places. I'm not surprised they are putting pressure on her to back down. Let us know how she gets on.