Y3 DS falling behind but am told 'there's a lot worse'

[Boobaddum]

My DS is in Y3. In his KS1 SATs he scored all 2a's so not genius but above average. At parent consultation we were given his results of NFER tests taken earlier in the year. He scored below the national average of 100 for all except VR and that was only just over at 101, all others in the 90s.

The Headteacher was taking the consultation as DS's teacher has been off sick and we're not sure if he is returning. DS had him as NQT in Year 1 and he was moved to Yr 3 at start of this year and this is his first time of teaching Yr 3. When I questionned her what support/assistance my DS was going to be given due to poor progress, I was told 'there are lots who are worse than him'. She wouldn't give me class averages but I have someone in the 'know' and have been told that approx 50% of the class scored under average in English and about 30% under in Maths. She did say that they are working hard to get all the class to at least 3c in their optional SATs in May. I think what has made is worse is that his 2 best friends have been taken out for extra help (not sure in what) since beginning of school year but have both scored significantly higher than DS in tests.

I am not a pushy person by nature but am now wondering if I should be fighting his corner more. My older DD also made little progress between Y2 and Y4 (only 2a to 3C in 2 years - completely different teachers) but is now flying and is borderline for a level 5. So I'm not sure if I'm worrying about nothing or if I should make more of a fuss.

Any advice?

[coldtits]

The class average is not your Ds's problem. Don't let them make it so.

[carocaro]

Optional SATS in year 3? Never heard of this? DS1 is in year 3 and is having a great year after shitty year 1 and great year 2, he's a 1 for literacy but has dyslexia.

Have you asked the Special Needs Coordinator to see him? Does his teacher thinks he needs to see her?

Some of said to me year 3 is just a consolodation of what they have learnt in year 2, I could be wrong.

I also think the scores are just one indication of his progress, does he seem happy? Is he interested and engaged in what they are doing? Have you seen progress in his literacy and numeracy? EG: with my DS he was on Stage 3 ORT and now in on stage 9, he can add up and take away more easily and can write good sentances, all of which were very hard for him at the start of the year, but how this would score in a test, I have no idea, but I am happy with his progress and so is he. He is a great ideas person, confident with tasks and leading a group.

Please don't compare others in the class, you don't really know what is going on with others. Have another chat when school returns about what you and they could do to help.

[Boobaddum]

DC attend a CofE school in a very affluent area (we are the poor relations!) and all the parents are very pushy and result driven. Most of them have started to tutor their DC's for selective schools already! We are so not going down that route - DD has got a place at our local comp where I know she will thrive and he will follow.

A lot of parents weren't exactly impressed with the teacher when we had him in Year 1 and approached headteacher when we found out that we were having him again and she told them he would be closely supervised. Some current Yr 2 parents have even threatened to move their children if he is still in Yr 3 by the time their DC's go into Yr 3.

I get the feeling that the underlying message from the headteacher is that she acknowledges teaching had been poor and really I have nothing to worry about, that he is doing 'ok' in relation to others.

DS is very quiet boy, is good at maths but not so good at English - has very little imagination and creativity. He actually loves his teacher and keeps asking when he is coming back - he probably wants him back as he can coast along - he doesn't do more than the bare minimum.

His reading has improved this year and his hand writing is so much better than the scribble he did last year but other than that any progress is not obvious now I think about it!

I was also told that about the dip in Yr 3 and DD did the same (except I didn't find out until Yr 4 as we weren't given test results when she was in Yr 3) and as I say, is fine now, so keep swinging between it's fine, he'll be ok and OMG, he's falling behind too much!

[soapboxqueen]

Most schools do optional SATs as it is a way to monitor how children are progressing and how they will eventually do in year 6 SATs. Children don't really plateau in year 3. The year 2 SATs are done in a completely different way to the key stage 2 SATs e.g. no time limit and much more participation by staff. Therefore children can seem to go backwards or stand still when it's actually because it is much easier to get a higher mark on a year 2 paper. I got my class to sit the year 3 paper and then the year 2 one so that I could get a more accurate read on their progress. There are other reasons for a change in progress such as change in lesson structure and position within a school but I feel that that my first suggestion is the more relevant.

I would go back to the school and ask to know what they are doing to sort out your ds's progress. Saying that there are children worse off then yours is not an answer. If this teacher is off sick what have they put in place to ensure continuity? This could also be having an effect on his performance. I would be more concerned at the head teacher's apathy to the situation rather than his progress this year. Some children do have 'off' years and can make up the next year. This is why some schools prefer to monitor progress over 2 years rather than one.

[mrz]

Agree most schools use the optional KS2 SAT tests. Also agree that your son is your priority and whether there are worse children in his class or not isn't your concern and should not have been raised by the head.
If the class teacher is on long term sick the school should be ensuring the children are being taught and making progress. I would try to find out how much progress your son has made this year and base your response accordingly.

[Feenie]

"The year 2 SATs are done in a completely different way to the key stage 2 SATs e.g. no time limit and much more participation by staff. Therefore children can seem to go backwards or stand still when it's actually because it is much easier to get a higher mark on a year 2 paper."

The non-correlation between some schools' Y3 and Y2 results isn't helped by the fact that some schools still insist on giving levels in Y3 from optional SAT tests only, instead of using teacher assessment.

The year 2 level comes from sound teacher assessment, usng many different sources of evidence, and the levelling criteria used should be the same across the school.

Separate infant/junior schools have problems because of a lack of moderation between the two, but don't let any teacher tell you that y3 is a 'plateau' year, or that children can't make progress because the 'tests are harder' - ask them why they are only levelling once a year, using optional SATs only, in the first place?

[clam]

The NFER testa are a measure of intelligence, basically, so it's not a useful comparison for making progress with the curriculum, as the SATs can be.
If your DS was 2A at the end of Year 2, he's doing OK and he won't have taken any comparable tests since in order for you to know if he's progressing. Although the teachers should have completed their own termly teacher assessments. Not sure if those would have routinely been reported to you, however. Depends on the school I think.
I guess the head teacher meant, by saying "there are a lot worse," that provision for additional support is tight and they have to prioritise. At the moment, it sounds as if they don't think your DS is a high priority.

[soapboxqueen]

The reality is that a child doing both year 2 and year 3 tests at the same time would not come out with the same level. They should feed into one another and they don't.

I entirely agree that schools should use more teacher assessment and quite honestly I think optional SATs are a waste of bloody time but the year 3 SATs are disproportionately harder than the assessments in year 2. Mainly because of the way the tests are carried out. There is not the same jump between years 3/4/5/6. Children should still make progress in year 3 it's just that if the school is using SAT data only it can show a levelling off of progress. I don't think it means they are only assessing once a year either. Many schools only report the optional SAT data to parents and keep the other teacher assessments for internal records only.

[Feenie]

But they would surely share it at a parent consultation - especially if a child appeared to have made little progress using such data.

[soapboxqueen]

Depends on the school policy doesn't it. I've personally never had a problem sharing my assessments or SAT assessments. However, many schools don't. Whether it's because they don't trust the staff's ability to assess their class I don't know.

I can actually think of a few teachers I've taught with who i wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. A friend of mine once got shouted down by a teacher in the year up from hers because she said they couldn't be at x level in year y. It was mainly because my friend had some very bright children in her class and the next teacher didn't know how to stretch them so she wanted the levels kept low so she could show progress.

Due to this sort of behaviour I always take my own assessments at the beginning of the year so I can match their progress against that. I know the vast majority give acurate assessments to the best of their ability it's just I know some who want to make themselves look good.

[Feenie]

Frequent moderation meetings are the key, I think - we regularly have moderation staff meetings where we level 3 pieces of each other's writing (from the children, obviously ) and check for parity. The Numeracy co-ordinator arranges the same for Maths.

I do some paired marking with the Y6 and Y2 teachers to level some of their writing, making sure they aren't always working in isolation.

The LEA moderated our KS1 assessment last year, and Ofsted checked books against teacher assessment when we were inspected last month.

Makes sure we are all singing from the same hymn sheet, and that we are a long way from just relying on test data alone!

[soapboxqueen]

At my current school we do this for writing only but i think it was because of issues similar to those i mentioned earlier but i'm not sure.

I entirely agree with moderation amongst staff. It's the only way to ensure parity. Just wish all SLT would back it up. I've helped mark assessment from all parts of our school but that was because I'm part-time and thought i'd help those teachers out rather than any whole school plan. Sounds much better where you are.

[cornsilk]

a standardised score of 90 plus is within the average range. Don't worry at all.

[princessparty]

2B is the minimum expected in KS1 SATS but that is not the same as the average.
This chart shows the national KS1 results and you will see that,except in writing 50% of kids are at level 2A or above.
In the reasoning/ non verbal reasoning (which is more a measure of academic potential ie intelligence) the average is 90-110.
So it seems as though your DS is broadly average both in terms of academic potential and academic achievement.

[princessparty]

sorry the chart