Should I get a formal dyslexia test done or not?

[haggisaggis]

dd struggled with learning from teh moment she started school - but seemed otherwise bright enough. (good vocabulary, general knowledge etc). She has always had problems gathering her thoughts together so it can take her a while to get her argument across -and words can be muddled. At nursery they started learning numbers at 3.5 but she still didn't know them when she started school at 5. By teh Christmas of P1 she was receiving extra help at school (daily 1-1 with teacher or TA, and weekly with learning support teacher). We planned on getting her assessed for dyslexia at end of P1 but teh learning support teacher phoned me to say she was definitely dyslexic and to save my money.
She is now 7 and continues to have support at school - although not as much emphasis seems to be put on phonics as seems to be the case in English schools and she has to learn by rote lists of words. (She usually forgets these once she has learned them so I have never really seen the point!) The learning support teacher feels that having a bank of words she can draw upon is better than her always "sounding out". ALthough dd CAN sound out those sounds she knows and it seems to me this would be a better method of teaching for her. My question is - if I have her diagnosed formally, would she be given learning strategies I could give to teh school - and if I did do you think they would listen? I could of course just give her phonics practise at home - but would rather work with the school to provide a consistent approach. (She does get some phonics at school - just not as much as I think she would benefit from). Of couse if the diagnosis wa sthat she was not dyslexic or thta a conentrated phonics approach was not what she needs I would respect that also.

[haggisaggis]

Bumping this.

[bramblebooks]

It would be useful to discuss this with the school senco and her class teacher.
At seven, a lot of developmental indicators can cloud an identification of dyslexia.
However, what would be important is to say that 'these are the issues, and this is what needs doing'.
Dyslexic children need a structured, multisensory, phonological approach to remediate their difficulties.
Learning by rote may well not be effective. However, learning 'sight words' which are not phonologically plausible will be very helpful for helping her to 'join up' her reading. She may not be able to cope with too many per week, but as long as she's building on the number she knows, it will help her.
If you are concerned about muddled thinking, it may be appropriate for school to refer her to SALT for an assessment of her language processing skills and short term memory. SALT should also be able to assess her phonological skills.
Having a formal diagnosis may not change anything at school, but will help you to better support your child by understanding where her strengths and difficulties are. It's expensive, I'm just going through the process with my elder son.

[haggisaggis]

Bramblebooks - according to Dyslexia SCotland I can insist on an Ed Psych assessment for dyslexia - although think w ewould probably get the private Dyslexia ACtion one.
Agree about some sight words being useful - but she is getting lists of ones that CAN be sounded out - as well as the "tricky" ones that can't. I guess I am not convinced it si a structured approach - seems to be a lot of leaping about to me. I have a meeting next week which is why I am trying to decide now.

[bramblebooks]

It may not be a structured approach for her at this point as she will still be accessing (or not) general class teaching with some appropriate differentiation and individual/small group work. What she may need, though, is the structured approach we've mentioned.
Dyslexia Action are fab. It would be helpful to ensure that your assessment is being done by a psych, though, as part of the D.A. work, as that carries more weight. I've seen a recent D.A. report which wasn't done by a psych, and one which is.
Good luck with your meeting. Do you have the equivalent of parent partnership in Scotland which can help you understand the system locally? From what I understand, resources are more individually allocated by schools/authorities than they are here in England.

[MmeBlueberry]

If I suspected that I had a dyslexic child, I would get an urgent assessment from Dyslexia Action, and then get support from one of their specialists. I wouldn't leave it to chance.

[haggisaggis]

Thanks Bramble - don't know "parent partenrship" - but it's a REALLY small school and very friendly so easy enough for me to speak to them. I do know thaough that the Learning Support teacher isn't keen on us having dd formally assessed (although don't really know why). DH feels that if she is getting support anyway why would we want to put her through testing unless there is some obvious benefit. I feel I would just like to know more about her difficulties (and finally determine "officially" if she actually is dyslexc or just a bit of a "late developer")

[maizieD]

I don't know exactly what the situation is in Scotland, but in England a private diagnosis of 'dyslexia' carries very little weight with a school. In England you would need to press to get her assesed by the school's Educational Psychologist. The EP would then probably say that she needs multi-sensory teaching and it is usually up to the school to to interpret this. Given that she is currently being given 'sight words' to learn (and the spurious reason for teaching them) I wouldn't place any reliance on them giving her the structured, systematic explicit phonics teaching that she needs. I would also say that there are very few children who do not respond well to good phonics teaching, but that mixing in 'sight words' dilutes the effect.

I would suggest that you do give her phonics practice at home. Have a look at this very good website, www.dyslexics.org.uk ,which will give you lots of information about phonics and links to programmes which you could use at home. All good phonics programmes are multisensory as they engage visual, auditory, oral and motor skills in learning letter/sound correspondences (see the letter/s - say the sound), discriminating discrete sounds in words and writing letters in response to 'sounds'.

I wouldn't get too involved with 'dyslexia' organisations. They create too much of a mystique around the topic and, despite their assertions, dyslexia is a very vague and woolly concept. Serious reading researchers have great difficulty in finding any discernible difference between 'dyslexics' and common or garden 'poor readers'.

Just do the phonics, help her with her organisational difficulties and she will be fine

[maizieD]

OOh, sorry, you didn't say that she has organisational difficulties .

I do agree with the suggestion of asking for a Speech & Language assessment.

[bramblebooks]

Oooh maizie D I like you lotsly too xxx
Brambles M.Ed(SEN), AMBDA (nearly!)

[rainbowsue]

totally agree with maizieD! DD struggled with reading / spelling / organisation and was very clumsy (still is)etc etc from the off but always seemed bright and (generally) loved school. We went through the usual cycle of concerns / reassurance in each new class. Throughout this time I just concentrated on helping her do the things she needed to do at that time in her life, eg practising changing for PE, packing her bag, loads of reading stories, and yes teaching sight words and picture association spelling I'm afraid. Though I did feel she needed better phonics teaching. But it all worked and kept her 'average' for reading and spelling and not too slow in PE etc. When she went to secondary school the English teacher immediately asked if she could be dyslexic but as she was judged to be average the SENCo said getting a diagnosis wouldn't give any additional help.
I have to say I think he was right, the diagnosis does seem to have a mystic about it when you don't always need a label or specialist advice. Though I admit I am an OT so did have some ideas how to help. She was eventually tested before going to uni because this can access IT help and a grant. She was found to be severely dyslexic so gets the grant. She's now doing well at Cambridge University! So it goes to show you don't need to label your kids early on, sometimes this can be detrimental as evey problem they encounter gets put down to being dyslexic. I am sure MaizieD's advice would've been excellent for my girl but as it was we survived. So and never give up teaching the necessary skills throughout your kids childhoods - make it fun and you'll get there. Good luck.

[PeacefulLiz]

MaizieD, how do you know that very few children don't respond well to good phonics teaching? Can you point me to any links of this?

My DS is not responding well to anything, and is getting good phonics teaching.

I however have put off getting a private assesment from Ed Psych or Dyslexia Action because I've never heard any stories of there reports being useful. They always seem to recommend phonics, word shark, toe by toe, and other things I can find myself by researching dyslexia on the web - but which haven't actually helped.

Dyslexia is not a medical condition. Failing to progress at school could be down to any of a dozen different things. Obviously including vision problems (like Erlen syndrome) and hearing problems (like auditory processing disorder), so I'm still trying to work out what the cause of her failing to make academic progress is - rather than get a label of 'dyslexia' which won't help with treatment at all.

[GroveMum]

A dyslexia assessment was on the contrary really helpful for my daughter. This was organised via Dyslexia Action and the Ed Psych was able to point out exactly what her specific difficulties were. We paid for teaching at Dyslexia Action which was expensive and she went for 2.5 years but it worked - she can read at a level two years above her age group and is predicted Level 5s in her SATS after Easter. I also felt that it gave my daughter confidence in that she believed herself to be stupid before her diagnosis and afterward had an explanation for why she had difficulties.

At Dyslexia Action she was taught using their programme - Units of Sound. In my opinion it is not the programme but who teaches it that is important - their teachers were fantastically good. Classroom teachers do not have the time, and assistants or parents such as myself, do not have the expertise. I suspected my daughter was dyslexic when she was five and I tried various stuff to help her - but to be honest I did not have a clue what I was doing - despite the hours of reading and studing the internet etc. The school consistently denied there was anything wrong. The attitude of the SENCO at her school was that she would not get help as she was "only" 6 months behind. The LEA also refused to assess her for the same reason.

I would urge anyone in a similar position to get a diagnosis earlier rather than later, I wish I had done so when my daughter was 5 rather than 7.5, as she had really low self esteem for years.

My daughter herself thinks there are undiagnosed "dyslexics" in her Year 6 class at school - as they have similar difficulties to her but have not benefited from the specialist teaching she had, including one of her close friends, the daughter of a headmistress who does not "believe" in dyslexia. The girl is bright but really struggles with written work.

I don't think "labelling" is generally desirable, but it was extremely helpful in my daughter's case.

[PeacefulLiz]

Thanks GroveMum for sharing your positive story. Very heartwarming to hear that your child is predicted a 5 in her SATS.

[frankie3]

My DS aged 9 has problems with his spelling and writing, and I paid for a private assessment which said that he has dyslexic traits / mild dyslexia. The report was not that useful in telling me what I should do, but was useful in that I have a detailed assessment which shows that I was not going mad and that my DS does have reasons for his problems at school. It also means that I now have more patience and understanding when he struggles with his work. I have shown the school the report but they are not much help as he is not "bad" enough to warrant extra funding for assistance at school, and any extra help he would have would just be via a teaching assistant going through lists of spellings - ie a waste of time.

GroveMum - Did you go to a Dyslexia Action centre for the tuition? There are no centres near where I live.

[GroveMum]

We did go to DA for teaching but there are alternatives. The Ed Psych said you can get a list of teachers from the BDA and they are cheaper than DA.
It is extremely frustrating that the schools don't offer help for all with specific learning difficulites to reach their potential. I found the LEA and school to be utterly useless and unhelpful - if you want anything extra you have to pay for it yourselves.

[frankie3]

This thread is great as it has made me more pro-active. I did a google search and have found a dyslexia tutor not far from where I live. I am meeting her next week, and she wants to look at a copy of my DS's report. I told her that the report just says that my DS has "dyslexic traits" but she said that most reports say this even when it is full blown dyslexia.

[mrz]

Strange that a dyslexia tutor should say that ...

[frankie3]

Maybe... but I guess what she means is that even if you do not show every trait of dyslexia according to the assessment, the problems can be the same as if it did.

I am so grateful to talk to someone about this that I will have to trust her - she teaches at a dyslexia unit in a private school so I would hope that she is OK.

[GroveMum]

frankie3 - I wouldn't worry too much about what the teacher said on the phone or the lack of specific dyslexia mentions in the report. Some of my daughters test results at the assessment were OK, one high, some very low. Dyslexia is only mentioned rather briefly and cautiously but the Ed Psych did confirm it orally. Also said quite a few other things that were not in the report. My daughter had low scores for working memory and processing speed. The teacher will read through the whole thing to make sense of it, and to decide what sort of intervention is necessary.

[SleepingLion]

I am interested that some posters seem to suggest that formally identifying a child as dyslexic is not helpful. The ones I teach now and have taught in the past are reassured by their diagnosis. IEPs are put in place, they have one-to-one tuition each week to support their mainstream schooling, they have extra time in exams. They know that they are not 'stupid' or 'lazy' or other names they might have been called by the more cruel of their peers but that they have a recognised condition which means they learn differently.

[GroveMum]

I wish my daughter went to a supportive school like that.
My daughter was once told by another child that "dyslexia" was a terminal disease but everyone was keeping the truth from her!

[Moam]

My son has dyslexia. He was diagnosed via Dyslexia Action at age 6, and now a year later we have started weekly tuition with them.

I am lucky that A is at a small village infant school which has been wonderfully supportive to us both. All of the staff have tried teaching him in various ways, and he was referred onto the LEA. The LEA was very slow to react due to pressure of numbers of requests so we went down the route of private assessment. The school has taken this fully on board and we have IEP's etc in place, and are working with his DA tutor.

A is slowly improving with literacy and the biggest improvement to date is with his general confidence. He is back to being a happy little boy again who is included and not excluded.

So thank you Dyslexia Action !

[emdaisy]

my daughter has dyslexia: Primary school gave learning suppport but detered me from getting her formally assessed. Did this eventually when in year 8. Glad I did, as the extra (private, via DA) classes gave her lots of self confidence, helping her build on her strengths. Whether an earlier formal diagnosis would have improved things I don't know, but she managed 6 A grades in her GCSEs last year!
Dyslexia is a 'broad church' and it impacts on those afffected in different ways, only partly related to the severity of the learning difficulty. There is no single 'best' thing to do.

[dolfrog]

Dyslexia is about having problems with a man made communication system the visual notation of speech.
Dyslexia is an educational or learning disability, which has many underlying or medical cognitive causes, many of which have more severe symptoms than just only the Dyslexic symptom.
Cognitive subtypes of dyslexia. [Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2008]
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18389017

Unfortunately a diagnosis of dyslexia can only be considered to be a screening test for the underlying cognitive issues which cause the dyslexic symptom. In the UK the real problem is the dyslexia diagnostic process which stops with the educational issues and fails to provide the much required medical referals to NHS Hospitals such as Great Ormond Street Hospital where a full assessment of the cognitive disabilities can be dome.

Unfortunately the British Dyslexia Association is at least a decade behind the current international dyslexia research, which means that the so called qualification they provide for those who diagnose dyslexia in the UK is questionable to say the least. And Dyslexia Action are just the same.

The auditory, visual, and attentional cognitive causes of the dyslexic symptom are usually diagnosed for free on the NHS, which really questions the charges made by Dyslexia Action and others. And also raises the question "what are you paying for".

You really do need to identify what causes the dyslexic symptom, as that is the only way to discover the best coping strategies, which your child will probably have been developing subconsciously, and best way to support these coping strategies, and for schools and teachers to use teaching methods which meet your childs cognitive learning needs.

[DyslexiaTeach]

I think it's worth practising phonics at home as well. I teach dyslexic pupils, and many of them don't necessarily get a phonic program at school, or if they do, they are able to 'get around it' by using visual memory skills instead (even if their spelling lists are very phonic based, they still manage to learn by memorising them as whole words). Later on, when it becomes too much to learn purely by visual memory, they have few phonic skills to draw on. Many dyslexic children will find phonics more difficult than sight word memory, and therefore need even more practise and overlearning.

The resources available at places like SmartKids can be very useful. Phonic readers like Supersonic Phonics and others are often better than the reading schemes used in some schools, as they really do follow a genuine phonic progression.

Private tutoring can be very helpful, especialliy past about Year 3, when they get a lot less daily phonics in school. In Key Stage 1, they do a lot of it in the literacy hour, but I find that after that, once most kids have got the basics, it really tails off, and some of the dyslexic children start to flounder more then when they are not still having all the sounds reviewed regularly.

It's good to get a habit of 'sounding out' established as early as possible, before children get in the habit of memorising ALL their spelling words (of course, there will still be sight words that need to be learned by memory, but at least if the phonic words are done by sounding out, the child isn't faced with trying to memorise everything, and thus starting to get overwhelemed by that).