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more reading! 4 yr old

20 replies

icancancan · 21/01/2010 18:11

although my ds (4) is at nursery they have started phonics sounds/reading (hence posting in primary). I am woefully ignorant about terms such as cvc/ decoding etc and simply do not know how to support teaching him to read other than reading with him lots. half of the children in the class are reading and taking home reading books and ds still cant 'sound' out letters although we have gone through the first two jolly phonics books. his teacher has said that he says the letter and mostlyh the sound but then five mins later goes 'blank' when she asks him the sound that 'n' makes for example and will make up a sound or say the sound for another letter.
i try to get him to realise he has to look at the letter, which he knows, but he doesnt 'get' what we are trying to do - both of us get frustrated and i dont want to put him off learning but dont want the teachers to think i'm not doing anything to support him either.
sorry this is waffly but does anyone know what i'm talking about?! can anyone help me to support him as I feel he is being left behind already!

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amidaiwish · 21/01/2010 18:17

he is 4. if it isn't coming naturally i would honestly leave it. (DD1 was reading fluently by 4 and DD2 at 4 is only just getting to grips with some letters). Honestly if your nursery is pushing him they are inappropriate. Just keep reading to him, ask him every now and again to point out a letter you know he knows and leave it at that. Don't push it or you will put him off/give him a mental block!

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amidaiwish · 21/01/2010 18:19

oh and DD2 does that. i know she knows some letters but sometimes i ask and she will just go blank and make something up! I don't think this is unusual. When DD1 started school only 2/30 could read and this is in a high achieving state primary in a good area with plenty of hothouse nurseries. Do not worry!

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Hulababy · 21/01/2010 18:21

He is only 4y and doesn't need to be reading et.

I would just scra the reading and stick to letter and sound games at most. Play I spy games, read to him, talk about stories, etc but don't push him to read. He doesn't sound ready for it yet.

He hasn't fallen behind yet. He isn't even at school so there is no reason for him to be learning to read if he isn't into it.

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icancancan · 21/01/2010 18:33

thanks for the swift replies - i guess i am anxious about this as he had to go through an assessment to get a place and i dont want to let him or the school down (and our local other primary is in special measures so if he was asked to leave - in a nice way of course - we'd be in trouble). it has a 'hothouse' reputation and i suspect they expect all children to be able to read when they start reception. crap system isnt it?
am trying not to panic ....

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Hulababy · 21/01/2010 18:35

My DDis at a fairly academic prep school 9albeit not down south). She had an assessment before starting, etc. DD couldn't read when she started school. Infact only one child in the class could. They didn't even assess reading at all. They just drew some pictures, chatted and played a couple of games.

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amidaiwish · 21/01/2010 18:36

if he passed the assessment he'll get there eventually, just keep reading to him and don't push him. they will NOT ask him to leave!

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overmydeadbody · 21/01/2010 18:38

He is four.

Just let him enjoy books without the pressure of reading. It will make no difference by secondary school whether he is reading at 4 or 7 anyway.

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overmydeadbody · 21/01/2010 18:40

I would question why the f*ck the nursery are doing this tbh. It isn't what they are meant to be doing.

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amidaiwish · 21/01/2010 18:42

when his teacher said "that he says the letter and mostlyh the sound but then five mins later goes 'blank' when she asks him the sound that 'n' makes for example and will make up a sound or say the sound for another letter." was this in a "that's just the stage he is at atm" or "he needs to do better" kind of tone.

maybe you are being over-sensitive/over worrying? this is just the stage they go through.

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maverick · 21/01/2010 19:03

The Jolly Phonics readers are not supposed to be introduced until after the basic code has been taught.

If he's still at the CVC stage then that is what the readers should contain.

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icancancan · 21/01/2010 19:06

thanks again for the replies - I totally was not expecting the school to be piling the pressure on this early and yes i admit i am a worrier (maybe what mn would describe as a 'helicopter parent').

amidaiwish - the teachers tone was a little exasperated tbh. she also mentioned the 'blank' look from ds. however she did go on to emphasise that he was doing very well in other areas and happy and socialising well (which i was v happy about).
i am going to see her again tomorrow and explain what we are doing and see if she can give me more specific pointers/ideas. is there any mileage in getting a jolly phonics dvd so i can make sure i'm doing it right? dh, btw, also thinks he is not ready and that we shouldnt be pushing it. what is a bit puzzling is that he loves me reading books to him and actually pulls my arm to do 'phonics books'! he is forever trying to write letters but just cant seem to grasp the concept of letter sounds yet let alone blending.

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icancancan · 21/01/2010 19:06

ps. what is cvc pls and decoding?

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overmydeadbody · 21/01/2010 19:36

cvc is a consonant-vowel-consonant word, like cat, hat, bun, hot, not etc

decoding is breaking a word down into its phonics. This is how a lot of children start reading unfamiliar words, by sounding out the letters

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kissingfrogs · 21/01/2010 19:36

CVC = Constanant-Vowel-Constanant
e.g c-a-t
p-i-g etc
decoding is working it out
blending is moving on from saying c-a-t to cat (blending individual sounds together to make the words)

don't fret, 4 is very very young to start. Concentrate on knowing all the letter sounds A to Z first (sounds not names, as in "ah" not "Ay" for a)
Children will blend/decode when they are ready. My DD1 knew all letter sounds at 3.5 but did not blend until 5.4 (couldn't grasp concept so I just left it alone) Now at 5.8 she is a great little reader in top reading group in the space of 4 months because she was ready!

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kissingfrogs · 21/01/2010 19:37

tandam posting there with overmydeadbody (great name!)

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overmydeadbody · 21/01/2010 19:40

kissingfrogs not ah for a, just 'a' short a sound, without the h at the end

It is very impiortant that childrne are taught the phonics correctly, otherwise sounding out become impossible. The letter B for example, should not be taught as bah, or buh, but just 'b'.

Our tendancy is to say the sound with a vowel at the end, this is wrong. If in doubt, there are websites that have sound clips of how to say the sounds for the lwtters correctly.

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overmydeadbody · 21/01/2010 19:40

I was just thinking kissingfrogs is a great name lol

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Littlefish · 21/01/2010 20:27

icancancan - is this a state nursery, or private nursery. Is it attached to a state primary or private primary.

I'm quite horrified that children are being "taught" to read at nursery, before they are ready. I'm all for following children's lead when they are ready, but your ds obviously isn't. This is completely normal! He is only 4! Ask the teacher if you can see a copy of the EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) and ask which "development matters" stage she thinks your ds is at. It sounds to me like she is pushing him on much faster than he should be, because she is teaching all the children the same thing.

Is he able to verbally break words down? ie. can he tell you that cat is made up of the sounds c-a-t? Until he can verbally break words down (segment) and then put them back together again (blend), he really isn't ready to be working with blending letters.

He should be playing lots of listening and speaking games - I spy, odd one out, matching first sound words etc.

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mowcop · 21/01/2010 20:37

My son is just learning all of this, but he is in Reception. He did know some phonics when he started, but the nurseries aim was to teach the sounds and recognition of the letters, not actual reading or building up words.
I have got the Jolly Phonics book and music CD, I would recommend it. All 3 of my children enjoy listening to it. The youngest (2) dances and sings, middle man (4) sings and does the correct action and I point out the letters and my eldest (6) follows the words.
TBH though, the nursery sound overly pushy and I would let him advance at his own pace. If not he could be fed up and frustrated before he has even got to school.

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Clary · 21/01/2010 22:51

OP it is totally a myth IME that most or even many children can read in reception.

I have helped in a number of FS2 classes for the last 4 years in an affluent area where there is lots of parental support etc. The DC come in at a high level but very few of them can read in Sept. Honestly!

In the class I am in atm (the oldest - they are all 5 now) there are a few children whose reading is very good so I suspect they could more or less read in Sept - maybe about 3-4. I commented to the mum of another good reader and she said well, she only started with school.

There's loads of time, please don't worry or pressurise yr DS.

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