part time hours in reception

[jaded]

DD is not 5 until the end of April and I am keen that she stays part time at school until she is of the compulsory age. She is finding 3 full days and two half days very tiring (only started doing this during the last few weeks of term) so I don't think she is ready for a 32 hour week (what four year old is?). Also she is not finding the afternoons (or much of it, truth be told) that stimulating and we do lots at home anyway. I even think the hours she is doing now are too much for such a young child and am considering her doing less. My question is_ if you had the choice, how many hours would you have your child in school? Do you think the 32 hour week is too much for four and five year olds? Do you think it is right that the teachers see more of your child than the parents? I feel that four and five year olds still need a lot of contact with their parents and we should be their role models. They are still very young children and the first six years are the formative years - very important to get right!
I think these years should be about building self esteem and confidence and teaching children how to interact with other children (sharing, playing together and looking after each other). The emphasis should be on the emotional and social skills needed for children to become happy, well adjusted adults with curiosity and a love of learning. Unfortunately the focus is on reading and writing in this country and there is little time for children to do much else. Therefore I am going to have to help my daughter with these skills outside the classroom!

[sarararararah]

The emphasis should be on personal, social and emotional skills in Reception. They certainly are at my school. Obviously we teach them to read and write too but not at the expense of anything else. If this doesn't seem to be the case at your daughter's school, perhaps it isn't the right one for her? Have you asked them what their approach is wrt the PSE side of things? It forms a significant part of the EYFS and the Early Learning Goals so they should be able to answer your question.

If she was only full time for the last few weeks of term I'd give it a bit longer before deciding. They were ALL shattered in the last few weeks. Even our hardcore, oldest children.

[Acinonyx]

This seems to vary a lot with 4 yr-olds. My dd will be 5 in July but she went full time from week 2 and has been fine - not tired at all. I certainly don't feel that her school is pushing reading etc - maybe that will come later - next year probably. They seem to have a fun time doing play-based stuff. A lot of cutting and sticking etc.

''Unfortunately the focus is on reading and writing in this country and there is little time for children to do much else.'' This just bears no relation to dd's sxperience of school - is this a private school you are talking about?

[jaded]

Haven't asked them what their approach to PSHE is but their reaction to bullying was shocking - it was ignored and I was made to feel I was worrying over nothing. Strangely enough this school was my second choice (above the other local school with outstanding SATS results) because I thought it would be more caring and child centred. However, all schools have their pressures and targets to hit! I don't blame the teachers, it is the targets I oppose and it is difficult to really know the children in such a big class. This school is definitely not for her and I see it as a stop gap. As it isn't the best and it isn't compulsory, why does my daughter have to be there more than she should be? It's not as if she's loving it. Iwant my daughter to really enjoy school at this age.

[jaded]

No, this isn't a private school. I would have my daughter in a private school at 8 or 9 if I could afford it as they are not bound by SATs results and league tables! But that's a different issue entirely! My daughter never comes home with pictures or paintings and is not excited by it... at all.

[Acinonyx]

Sounds grim. Do you have an opportunity to spend a morning there to observe what goes on?

[jaded]

I just feel so upset about it all. Would love to observe a morning but I find DD's teacher really unapproachable (most of the parents do) and she doesn't exactly encourage much contact with parents at all. I have spoken to parents who have older siblings and they say she's a teacher who 'doesn't make an effort with parents' and it shouldn't matter because it's what she's like in the classroom that counts. Well, my DD isn't that keen on her either. She told me she wants her teacher to talk to her more. I see my DD's teacher in the mornings lining up the children but she has told us to see the classroom assistant in the morning with any questions etc as she is busy. In the afternoons I seldom see my DD's teacher as the classroom assistant tends to see them out. It's so impersonal and I find it all quite sad. I really didn't anticipate things would like this at primary level.

[Acinonyx]

I rarely speak to dd's teacher, but the school has a system of days paretns can go in and observe. Perhaps you could ask the ht if they do this - it's not uncommon.

If you think your dd is unsettled, for whatever reason, I would request a meeting, perhaps after school, with her teacher to talk about it. It is strange how so many of us are intimidated by schoolteachers - but they are just human beings and don't bite (even if you suspect they might like to...).

[MumNWLondon]

My DS is in nursery - attached to the school he will attend in September. He is still 3 (birthday in May) - and the nursery is 8.30-3.20pm (same hours as reception) - at the start of the year I suggested to him he'd do some full days and some days until lunchtime (they are very flexible) but he loves it so much there he gets upset if I pick him up early!!! Yes he is tired at end of day and so he can't walk home - I pick him up with his buggy and he sometimes has a quick 10 min sleep on way home.

Incidentially they had a 3 week settling in period at start of term (week 1 staggered children in until 12 noon, week 2 until 12 noon, week 3 until 1pm including lunch) and the parents complained wanted them in until 3.20pm from week 1!!!! Some of these kids have just turned 3 the oldest just turned 4!

So in response to your question think it depends on the school and the child. As she is not 5 yet the school should be flexible about half days.

[Concordia]

if i were you, i'd have a quick chat about it with the classroom assistant, to sound her (assuming it is a her) out and then make an appointment to speak to the teacher at another point - you may need to get another parent to look after your child.
just for 10 mins or so. it may put your mind at rest.
I dont' see why your child can't go reduced hours. every child is different.
What does your DD think? does she want to be in school more often, or less often?
Perhaps ask her what she likes best about school?
I shall try to say this sensitively (may fail if so apologies) and i think that i am already getting anxious about this myself (DS due to start Year R full time in Sept, has a june birthday) but do you think that part of your anxiety may be to do with your own sense of losing DD a little more as she is growing up rather than her not being happy in school? Nothing wrong with feeling like that at all, and like you say, perhaps as a nation we should stress more family input for 4 year olds, but it may help you decide what to do if you can work out where some of your feelings are coming from. apologies if this is wide of the mark.
FWIW i am thinking of asking if my DS can go reduced hours at least until christmas when he starts. he is tiny with speech difficulties and i am already worrying about how he will cope!

[jaded]

Yes, part of it is feeling a sense of loss! However, my husband also thinks that my daughter is not that excited by school and that the days are too long. I took her to school today and she was so quiet and seemed sad to go in. Her teacher says she is following the routines etc and is confident but I don't feel she is really at ease there. It's such a change from the way she was in her former pre-school. She used to run into school! Good idea to ask her about the amount of time she wants to spend at school - thank you.

[Runoutofideas]

I'm having the same thoughts jaded. My dd1 is 5 in March but on Friday and today has cried going into school saying she doesn't want to go. Talking to her over the weekend she says that school is just too long and she prefers being at home. She has a nice group of friends and I think she does enjoy herself when she's there, it's just that a school week seems so long. I think she's also been a bit unsettled by the snow as school was open on the first day back, then closed, then open but classes mixed up because some teachers couldn't get in, which has all thrown her a bit as she's a creature of habit and like's to know what's going on. I know what you mean about the change from pre-school.

Is your daughter a child who enjoys tasks with lots of adult involvement? Mine is and she used to get a lot more adult attention at pre-school becaue of the ratios. I think she feels a bit anonymous and ignored at school at the moment.

[jaded]

Runoutofideas - yes, my DD is used to getting more adult attention (particularly at home) and that might be a big part of the problem. She hasn't built up much of a rapport with her teacher and I think she is feeling ignored too. Sorry to hear your daughter is not quite settled. Do you think you'll change her hours so she is spending a bit more time at home? It is such a long week and I just can't see how much my DD is getting from it. On the Friday (snow day) she went in, the children just watched TV in the afternoon. She could have done that at home! It's so impersonal and the two classes are mixed up at points during the day so there are 60 children shared between six members of staff. How can such young children thrive in an environment like that? There are too many! Children need to be talked to and feel engaged with activities!

[FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010]

We have no choice at our school. The older kids do full time from October half term and the younger ones started full time today.

[Runoutofideas]

Jaded, I don't think I will turn her part-time as such, seeing as next term she will be required to go full time anyway as she'll have turned 5. I might give her a couple of strategic "sick" days though just to recharge her batteries. Part-time doesn't seem to be a standard thing to do at dd's school.

I agree with you about being talked to and engaged with being vitally important, and I simply don't think it is possible with these sort of numbers. DD is at an ofsted "outstanding", hugely oversubscribed school with a 3 class intake so 90 children and I feel a little bit like I should just be grateful to have got a place.... In your case mixing up the two classes seems even more chaotic. I can understand why they are exhausted! I know what you mean about not knowing how much they are getting out of it, although in dd1's case I think she is benefitting hugely from having to be more independent from me and her social skills are definitely improving. The academic stuff seems to be a tiny part of their day though, and that's the bit she likes!

[SE13Mummy]

Jaded, it sounds as though it would be helpful for you to find out more from the school about how they pla their day in Reception, the sort of opportunities you can expect your daughter to have, how much learning is 'formal' how much is free etc. etc.

Children need to be in full-time education the term following their 5th birthday. No-where is it stated that the education must be wholly in school (or even at all!). If you don't feel that school is the right place for your daughter to learn then withdraw her, look elsewhere or consider flexi-schooling for after her 5th birthday (part school, part alternative).

My own 5-year-old loves school and I think the environment suits her brilliantly. That said I have just moved her from a rather more formal school (not our choice, we were allocated the place) to the school where I teach which is much more play-based in terms of learning. She attended nursery, 3 days a week until she started Reception but although she was given a full-time place (it was the school nursery) we only sent her Monday - Wednesday because my husband and I wanted the extra days with her. When her little sister was born in the summer she begged us to let her go to nursery full-time; the compromise was 4 days.

You need to make an appointment to speak to the Foundation stage manager and seek some reassurance before withdrawing your daughter... it's still early days!

[jaded]

SE13mummy - some really helpful advice there - thank you.
Runoutofideas - glad your daughter is gaining in terms of personal development. That's what I really want for my daughter at this stage. I want her to feel at ease and confident enough to tell the teachers if she's been bullied and also want her to feel relaxed enough to go to the loo at school. She's been having toileting accidents since she got back.
Spoke to one of the classroom assistants and he agreed that my daughter isn't settled yet and 'keeps herself to herself'. I told him about the toileting accidents and he's going to remind her to go more oftern at school. She's been having nightmares too and these have started since she's been back at school. Going to ask for her to do 2 whole days and three half days instead of the three whole days she's doing now. When she is feeling happier and more settled, I can increase the hours again. I am glad I stood my ground in term one and insisted she do half days for most of the term. Also some teachers must realise that some children have never been parted from theor parents for that long!

[asdx2]

My dd a february birthday only did mornings in reception until she was statutory school age. It suited her and us better.The foundation unit was very flexible and happy to accommodate parental preference. Even when she was school age if she was struggling I'd pick her up early so long as she was there when the register was called even if she left five minutes after she got her mark.

[Runoutofideas]

Ah jaded, I feel sad for your litle girl. Nightmares and accidents are not going to make her feel good about herself. I think you are doing completely the right thing for her by going part-time. Do lots of children do it though, or is she the only one? I'm just wondering if maybe she hasn't settled because all the others are in all day and have got used to each other and the routines.... May be completely wrong and I do believe in parents knowing what's right for their own children. Hope she's happy very soon.

[jaded]

asdx2 - Was your child the only one to do mornings until statutory school age? I'm asking because DD would be the only one going part time as ALL the others were full time from week 3. I didn't think my daughter was ready so she was doing mornings for 9 weeks of the first term. At week ten she asked to do some full days so we compromised with three full days and two half days. To be honest the teacher was making me feel awkward about her doing mornings and told me that they do phonics in the afternoon! Why on earth do they work in the afternoon as well?
Runningoutofideas - The teacher has said my daughter knows the routines so I don't think that's the issue. I think the problem has been a few girls making bitchy comments and taking a dislike to her for some reason. She tends to mix with the boys and doesn't stick up for herself when other children are hurtful. I wish the teachers would come up with some advice/ideas.

[asdx2]

Yes dd was the only reception child although because it was a foundation unit and the nursery children left at lunchtime too it probably wasn't as noticeable as it would be in a class of 30 reception children. (there were 10 in nursery and 11 in reception)

[jaded]

Asdx2 - sounds like you had a nice set up. Did you feel like you dd ever missed out on activities going on in the afternoon? Did other children make comments about her leaving early?

[asdx2]

No not at all because we had a lot of fun together at home or out and about anyway.The only comments came from her friends wanting to go home too tbh because she would often take in something she had made or a photo of where we'd been the next morning.I think they felt that she had a better time than they did perhaps.
Academically she didn't miss out at all she left reception top of her class even though she started nursery late and went part time for the majority of reception.
I think she probably enjoyed it more because she wasn't tired whilst at school and if she was at lunchtime then we'd have a lazy afternoon reading books or snuggled up with a dvd. I loved every minute tbh she is my youngest so was in no hurry to let her go.

[jaded]

Hello asdx2 - thank you for your lovely message. I think my DD was enjoying it much more when she was part time as she wasn't so exhausted! And there's so much more to life than school, isn't there? Your DD probably ended up being top of the class because she was getting more individual attention from you. Thank you for putting everything into perspective. Is she enjoying year one now?