My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Guildford Admissions - Naive and need help!

24 replies

NancyDrewRocks · 15/12/2009 04:54

Hi

So we are currently abroad and will likely be relocating to Guildford at v. short notice in NY.

Obviously need to get DD (5) into school so made a few tentative enquiries over phone yesterday all of which were met with at the least mild amusement but most with overt ridicule!

Apparently it is quite hard to find a primary school place...I had no idea . Children were not school age last time I lived in UK so not something I ever considered and I now find it is a bit more complicated than just picking up the phone and then turning up in new uniform (DD not me - obviosuly!).

So what do I do? Schools I have spoken to so far have told me they are full with no hope of places anytime soon. What happens next. I have also tried some independent schools and same story.

She needs to go somewhere and I will be on my own and will have difficulty travelling any distance. Arghhhh.

Any advice very gratefully received.

OP posts:
Report
prh47bridge · 15/12/2009 12:59

Have you tried all the primary schools yet? There are quite a few primary schools in the Guildford area. There is a full list on the Surrey County Council website.

If none of the local schools have places, you need to apply to Surrey County Council. There is a supplementary application form on their website and details of where to send it. They probably won't come up with a firm offer of a place until you have moved to the UK. However, once you are living in Guildford they are required by law to find a place for your child even if all the local schools are already full.

Unfortunately, this may mean you end up with a place at an unpopular (which usually means underperforming) school some distance away from your new home. However, once the Council has allocated your DD a place you can ask to go on the waiting list for your preferred school(s). You can also in some circumstances try appealing against the Council's decision, although your chances of success would be very low if your preferred school is genuinely full.

I had similar problems when we moved to our current home 18 months ago. Our oldest got into the local primary school but his younger brother got allocated a place several miles away which caused real problems. We eventually got it sorted after two appeals and two references to the Local Government Ombudsman!

Good luck

Report
EldonAve · 15/12/2009 13:07

The council admissions office would be the best place to start
They should have an idea of where isn't full and what happens once you arrive

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 15/12/2009 13:16

Thanks for your answers - I really appreciate it.

I had tried almost all the primary schools when one very kind receptionist told me that schools in Guildford don't deal with admissions directly it is done through the council.

I have now located the form that I need and will hopefully speak to a real person this evening who can tell me if there are any vacancies in any schools. So progress of sorts.

I am hoping that we will be fortunate in so far as there are a lot of schools in Guildford and most have good ofted reports and perform significantly higher than the national average. That being said this year has been so unbeliveably crap that it wouldn't suprise me if I was the one person whose child ends up needin to do a 50mile round trip to some town we've never heard of so DD can go to the Worst School in the World - in which case PRH47 I shall be coming back to you for further advice!

OP posts:
Report
prh47bridge · 15/12/2009 13:19

In general I would agree with EldonAve. However, Surrey's website is clear that they want parents to talk direct to schools first and only go to the admissions team if they can't find a place themselves. Not the most sensible approach in my view.

Report
prh47bridge · 15/12/2009 13:21

That's interesting, NancyDrewRocks. It contradicts Surrey's website but no surprises there! And feel free to come back to me for advice. Always happy to help in any way I can.

Report
SleighGirl · 15/12/2009 13:23

Have you purchased/got a house in guildford already? If not is it worth looking for school places nearby and move there instead? I think the school in Send may have spaces?

Or if you live near the train station look at schools near the next train stations IYSWIM?

Surrey have been closing a lot of schools recently,, they are on a money saving mission!

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 15/12/2009 13:53

PRH47 the conflict in advice is curious. From what I can work out from the Council website, Surrey use the same centralised admission system that many of the London boroughs do. However since we are mid year applicants the situation is a bit different.

sleighgirl we have a house in Guildford which is near two of the best primary schools so ideally I would like DD (and then DS as of September) go to one of those.

However, just to throw a spanner in the works it is currently let and we cannot have it back until April at the earliest and so I would have to take a let myself.

I would be very reluctant to look at schools a distance away. Part of the reason I am returning to UK is that I am hoping to be at the begining of what will be an undoubtedly high risk pregnancy and I cannot get the medical care I need where I am currently. My DH cannot return with me as cannot yet break his contract so I will be returning alone with my 2 DC and would like life to be as easy as possible.

I know this all sounds dreadfully complicated and (frankly bizarre since I am not yet pregnant!) but tis the cards I have been dealt. I was kinda hoping if it all got to complicated I would simply send them to an independent school - but doesn't seem to be much joy their either....

OP posts:
Report
SleighGirl · 15/12/2009 14:26

Well admissions date for reception has already closed and I think parents are notified in February they then have a few weeks to accept the place they are offered. Once that is done you can go on the waiting list for as many schools as you wish to.

You cannot "book" a place now for your dd so even if a school has a place now they may not by the time you have moved in.

I would get your dds name down on the waiting lists now and add your ds name asap - surrey should be able to tell you when that is - presumably after all the appeals are done? If you move before the appeal dates then you may be able to appeal on grounds that you weren't in the UK to apply back in September - I have no idea.

Worst case scenario could be home schooling whilst waiting for a place to come up?

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 15/12/2009 15:00

Thanks sleighgirl

I realise we cannot book a place for when we move back into our house that is why I need to rent a place near it so that any school we get into now will still suit once we have moved back into our place (we will be back in UK in Jan).

I believe I can still do a special out of time application on behalf of DS now on basis of not being in UK at time admissions closed but that doesn't help with the mid year application for DD.

Worst case scenario is that DD will have to stay here with DH until place becomes available but the thought of that breaks my heart

Had no idea this was so complicated!

OP posts:
Report
annh · 15/12/2009 16:02

This is not really relevant to the school admissions process but how are you hoping to get pregnant if your dh is still working abroad?! On a more serious note, would it not be better to wait until April to move when you go directly back to your own house without the stress of a rental in-between?

Report
hippipotamiHasLost77lbs · 15/12/2009 16:06

I would do the following:

You have an address in the UK (even though you cannot move until April as it is let)
Put your dd on the waiting lists for the schools nearest your house. Stay in the US until either April when your house is free, or until such a time there is a space at either of the two schools.

I don't understand why you have to be back in the UK in January when you have no pregnancy to need specialist care yet, no house to live in until April and no school place for your dd.

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 15/12/2009 16:20

Annh ha ha good question! I think (hoping) I might be pregnant this month. Don't know for sure but do have a good feeling (I know that sounds weird!)

If I am not pregnant I don't want to wait until April to get pregnant. We lost our DS (he was stillborn) in August and the thought of having to wait is unbearable BUT if we don't wait I need to get back to UK asap for treatment. My specialist in London wants to see me from 6 weeks into the pregnancy and if I don't go back to UK we are moving in Jan anyway and of course moving the children mid year is not ideal but I was hoping easier than mid term, so it is a juggling act.

OP posts:
Report
prh47bridge · 15/12/2009 19:21

Some of this is laid down by the government.

The authority (Surrey CC) MUST have co-ordinated admissions for the normal year of entry (i.e. reception).

You will be applying outside the normal admissions round. The authority MUST co-ordinate these admissions too, although some do insist that parents contact their preferred school first.

Assuming your children are British citizens, you are entitled to apply for a place NOW. Don't let them try to put you off. If they tell you to wait until you are in this country, point them at paragraph 1.61 of the School Admissions Code. The code has the force of law so they MUST follow it. However, although you can apply, they don't have to allocate you a place as they cannot be certain when you will be in the UK or where you will live when you get here. Plans can change right up to the last minute.

There are specific provisions in the Admissions Code for applications outside the normal admissions round. In particular, they MUST handle late applications in line with their co-ordinated admission arrangements and they cannot refuse a place simply because you have applied late (paragraph 3.24 in case you need it). This applies regardless of the reason for the late application.

I would suggest that you get an application in for your DS as soon as possible. You don't have to wait until the appeals are finished or, indeed, for anything else. If Surrey CC try to make you wait, kick up a stink and point them at both the paragraphs I've mentioned above. Surrey CC may well want some specific evidence to prove that you are moving into the area - make sure you supply this as soon as possible. Before applying, make sure you understand the admissions criteria for your preferred schools as they will govern how likely you are to get in. Hopefully this will get your DS sorted out without any problems.

Your DD is another matter. The problem you may face here is that there is a statutory limit of 30 for infant class sizes. If the school already has that many in the class your DD would join, they cannot take any more. However, the good news is that there are some exceptions. As you are moving into the area, your DD may be classed as an "excepted child" (which means they have to admit her even if it pushes the class over the limit) if there is no other available school within a reasonable distance (paragraph 2.63(a)). Unfortunately the regulations don't specify what is a reasonable distance but this would give you a good case for an appeal if, say, they allocated a place at a school 10 miles away.

I sincerely hope this turns out to be straightforward. If not, contact me and I'll do my best to help.

Report
SleighGirl · 15/12/2009 19:27

yes what year is your dd in? If she is in year 2 it's is much easier for the school to make an exception because it will be for only part of year. If your ds has a place then it will be to keep siblings together and not disrupt your dd by having to move schools again later on.

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 03:55

Thanks everyone for the advice.

After being passed around what felt like the entire Surrey CC phone system I spoke with the school admissions officer who was really helpful . As I thought the one school that definitely has places is the one I really didn't fancy but there are other's not too far away that have one space and she has told me I can email her ( - not used to such efficiency!) the application form now so that bodes well for DD.

PRH47 am I right in thinking that legistlation means the Council can't refuse us a place at a school as opposed to a specific school i.e. it will still be first come first served for the most popular schools?

The admissions officer said that we would not be allocated a place until after those who had applied on time had been allocated their places.

She also suggested that the lists in Surrey change quite a lot and places in even the popular schools do come available so I am feeling more positive and far less panicked - it has been a very sharp learning curve and I fear there is much more to come!

Thanks again

OP posts:
Report
prh47bridge · 16/12/2009 11:53

Yes NancyDrewRocks, they have to find your child a place and they must take your preference into account but they don't have to give you a place at your preferred school.

Places do become available after the allocations are complete. That happens pretty much everywhere as a result of families moving, parents opting for fee paying schools and so on. Indeed, it is fairly common for some children to not turn up at the start of term in September because they've gone elsewhere and the parents haven't bothered to let the school know. So even at that late stage you may get in.

Glad to hear the admissions officer was helpful. Hope it goes well. Keep us posted!

Report
helencw77 · 16/12/2009 12:40

Hello, my ds is 5 (in Reception though) and there are spaces at his Guildford school. It is an infant school, not hugely popular as the Junior school is not very close (well, about 5-10 mins drive) so people with children at each do not choose it. But it is a really nice little school, my son is getting on well there in Reception and my daughter will start Reception there next September. I'm not sure if your dc is Reception age or Yr 1 age, I'm sure there are spaces in each class. Note, there are 28 in his class currently (although one with an offer for a different school place after Christmas, not sure if she will take it). The teacher is wonderful.

The name is Wood Street Infant School if you want to look on Ofsted. We ended up there as we did not get any of our choices and we are quite happy with it. I do think school places in Guildford are like gold dust though, but Wood Street is really nice little school, particularly compared with the other schools with left over places.

Helen
helencw [at] fsmail [dot] net

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 14:04

Helen and PRH47 thanks.

Only difficulty now is ascertaining year group. She is 5 but only just so. So current year group (what we call here Foundation Stage 2) is age 4-5.

A couple of schools have said she'd be reception. The private school we have been in touch with (which is assessing 4 girls for their one place in Jan ) say Year 1 (which I assumed was to do with her being in her 2nd year of school) However admissions lady has said Year 1.

What do you think?

I have absolutely no desire for her to be with anyone other than children her own age.

OP posts:
Report
Bramshott · 16/12/2009 14:08

If she has turned 5 since September, she would be in Reception if she'd started school here.

Report
SleighGirl · 16/12/2009 16:02

5 on the 1st Sept onward she would be in reception, 5 on the 31st August or earlier would be year 1

Report
SleighGirl · 16/12/2009 16:07

Surrey won't teach out of year either btw.

Report
NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 16:50

Thanks ladies - reception it is. Will have to find a way to point this out tactfully to admissions lady who stated year 1 even though I gave DOB and she commented on fact it was DD's birrthday last week.

Anyway if any of you continue to be interested I shall keep you updated.

Actually I am going to post another thread and would be very interested in your comments...

OP posts:
Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 16:59

Helen can I ask what your choices were?

Thanks

OP posts:
Report
helencw77 · 17/12/2009 11:36

Hiya, sorry, I was out last night and did not get a chance to respond. We live slightly outside Guildford, so Wood Street is about 5 miles from us (takes 15 minutes ish). Our choices were Worplesdon, Walsh C of E and Wyke, which probably wouldn't apply to you if you are more central.

To be honest, I really think it will be luck of the draw with you if go on a waiting list. Even if you live right next door to the school you want dd to go to, you are really waiting for somebody to leave, in order to get a place there. If you live further away, you will just have to join the waiting list and may not be at the top, as for the Reception year, waiting lists are all managed centrally so somebody else may have first dibs on an available place. To begin with certainly, I think you will get a place at an undersubscribed school, but from experience, if you look around then undersubscribed does have not equal underperforming.

Good luck !

Helen

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.