Primary school without a fence on playground - problem?

[MammyT]

A primary school I'm interested in for my children hasn't got a fence on one side of its playground. The playground spills onto a large field/common and there's a busy road about 100 yards away. Otherwise it's a quiet enough spot on the outskirts of London.

The head teacher says that the fence will be in place by September but for complicated reasons, this has been an ongoing process for many years. Teachers patrol the boundary at break times and children don't tend to go outside as far as I can see. My particular concern is more about intruders than escapees!

Would you send your child to a school with an open playground like this?

[yummyyummyyummy]

iwouldn't worry about intruders.I don't think a fence would present too much of an obstacle to an adult hell-bent on getting into a school.

[thegrammerpolicesic]

What is the school like otherwise?
If it feels right for you and the fence is likely to be there soon I wouldn't worry.
The teachers must be very aware of the issue and I'm sure if there were a big threat to safety Ofsted would have highlighted this in this day and age.

[MammyT]

Ofsted highlight it in all the reports and it dropped from Good to Satisfactory based on its appropriateness as a school

It was built back in the 1800s so clasrooms are small but does very well in national results (highest in borough often).

Thanks for the replies!

[littleducks]

tbh i think that if there are teachers patrolling it, they are majorly aware of it and it shouldnt be too much of an issue

unless you believe that you child is likely to run off for no reason (some kids are prone to this) i wouldnt worry too much especially if there should be a fence there before september

[clam]

I wouldn't view it as a major problem, for all the reasons already mentioned.

And re: intruders. That psychopath in Dunblane managed to get as far as the school hall, so a fence won't necessarily be a deterrent.

[MammyT]

Thanks littleducks. Neither of mine are "bolters" so I was more concerned about intruders. But as yummy said, intruders aren't going to be put off by a fence if they really wanted to gain access. THanks again.

[thegrammerpolicesic]

Remember that the classrooms will seem a lot bigger to your dc than they will to you and if the results are good it's probably not ideal but not having a massive effect.

[Lizipads]

The school is failing to safeguard children imo if they've had the issue pointed out and yet still nothing's been done. They could fail their next ofsted outright if they still don't get it sorted.

Tbh, I would be questioning whether a school that can't be bothered to put right something that basic is going to have issues later on, when I want them to put something right for my child. Listening doesn't seem to be their strong point.

[yummyyummyyummy]

They could rent a fence until september.

[thegrammerpolicesic]

Lizipads I am pretty sure I know the school concerned. My SIL has dcs who go there.

It is not at all about that tbh. It's in a conservation area and it does not own the land it's on or there is a right of way out of school hours or something like that. It's not the school's fault - they have been trying to do something about it for years and had to deal with legal issues over the fence. That said it isn't a huge problem and the pupils are safe and fine it seems. The problem is being solved imminently under the new head.

[mrz]

I think it is too easy to shout "safeguarding" and apparently not so easy to use common sense. The fence will be in place in September after some difficulties in the period there hasn't been a fence I assume no children have absconded never to return and no marauding individuals or wild animals have strayed into the playground...good!

[littleducks]

I figured it would be something to do with planning/conservation, a school is hardly going to leave it unfenced just for the sake of it, the teachers must be desperate for the day that they can stop patrolling the boundary and worrying about it!

[mrz]

My school wanted to erect new security fencing as we join open fields on two sides, and had to apply for planning permission. Some residents raised objections and it took months to find a compromise

[MammyT]

thegrammerpolicesic - you've guessed it, I'm sure! What does your SIL think of the school?

Yes, the school is trying very hard but it's rather complicated because the land is owned by a local manor which has until recently refused to grant permission. They have now done so and it's going through the final stages with solicitors I'm told. But my neighbours whose kids have now left the school and are in secondary say it has been ongoing since their kids went there!

[thegrammerpolicesic]

LOL MammyT it is an unusual situation so was a giveaway really - was quite sure when I read the OP but then it was 100% clear from the other post as DSIL has talked about the developments there.

From what she and BIL have said, it is a sweet little school and I know I'd like the lovely location. The older kids all get tutored so that boosts the results - it is not always about the teaching (a friend's kids went there too and left to go to selective senior schools but lots of tutoring).

SIL and BIL are not Christian (they are a Jewish family) but find the church side of things bearable (we have talked about faith schools as they would have preferred a non C of E school but there was not a good option in the area.
They had talked about this playground thing before the dns started but she has not mentioned it since so must be a non-issue.

[yummyyummyyummy]

i really think they shoul;d rent temporary fencing (like they have on a building site) until September.

[mrz]

yummyyummyyummy they would not be able to place even temporary fencing without planning permission from the council

[yummyyummyyummy]

Yes that's fine -even in a conservation area

[littleducks]

Not if it blocks a public right of way

[thingamajig]

The lack of fence would set major alarm bells ringing for me. I know child protection has come on a lot in the last 25 years, but when I was 5 I was removed from the playground of my school by two older boy pupils, who then sexually abused me. There was no excuse for them not to have a fence, but there were (supposedly) teacher patrols. Very easy to get distracted by a playground full of children. The school was tiny, under 50 pupils at that time.

[madwomanintheattic]

my children's primary school has no fence at all.

in the uk, this would not be allowed. here in canada, it is fine. the school grounds are completely open for the community to use.

unless there is sn involved and a child is a 'runner', i don't think there are many situations that a fence would prevent tbh.

[nooka]

Ours hasn't either, in fact none of the schools in our community have fences (I'm also n Canada). In New York on the other hand we had to be signed in to the school by a security guard.

[MammyT]

yummmy - the land is owned itself by a local manor which has rights under old English law. They've reluctantly given permission for a proper fence after many years of lobbying but I can't see them agreeing to the place looking like a building site!