URGENT - Calling Primary School Teachers need some advice please on disruptive pupil in class

[mullercorner]

In a nutshell my son will be starting school in Sept and starting visits after Easter. (He is 4)

There is another boy who will do the same, we are friends with but his behaviour is somewhat should I say verging on "out of control". Thus always ends in disruptiveness and violence, and several of the children including my own copy - which I know is normal but totally unaceptable.

Recently his behaviour has become quite aggressive and violent...he punches and I mean throws right hooks, hits, pushes and pokes eyes. I am sooo sooo worried that my child is going to get "Tarred with the same brush"...all kids copy I know but when he is not around all the kids are great. His home life is rather wild - no set routine, bedtime cir. 11pm, junk food etc... His parents are lovely but let him rule the roost, they seem to think he is just "a boy being a boy" when the father "plays" with him they punch and kick and wrestle its all very aggressive.

Pre-school are aware of this but will not talk about another child to me, but say my son is an angel when he is on his own the days the other boy isnt there. I have spoke to the head mistress of the new school who says although they cant keep them apart when they start school, they will try as much as possible.

Im thinking of putting my son elsewhere.

Question to primary teachers - how do you handle this type of behaviour? Surely you would allow this type of behaviour to continue and disrupt the other childre - would you speak to the parents? Please, Please put my midn at rest, Im having sleepless nights over this

[cornsilk]

Stop worrying. The school will deal with it.

[mullercorner]

Its ok saying that but I would like to know how its actually dealt with the school did not appear to be too bothered

[cornsilk]

Yes they probably would seem not too bothered. It's not that unusual for a 3/4 year old child to behave in the manner you describe. You have no idea how this child - or your child for that matter, will respond to school. He may well be absolutely fine.

[Rhubarb]

I would approach the school again and say that you are worried this boy is a bad influence on your son. Ask them how they set a good example to the class, how do they counter balance this boy's negativity?

I'm sure not every boy will copy his behaviour. And tbh, no matter which school you choose, there will be at least one child in that class who will be termed 'the bad child'. So you are better advised to teach your son how to deal with it.

At home you can run through bad behaviours, ask your ds what he thinks are bad behaviours and what punishments should be given for bad behaviour. Then run through good behaviour in the same way. This increases his awareness of right and wrong.

In the classroom they usually spend more time rewarding good behaviour as an example to the children. There will be certificates given out for good behaviour and perhaps a presentation each week for their Star Pupil. There will be a behaviour chart in the class, each child will start off on 'sunshine' for example, brilliant behaviour means they get put onto 'rainbow', general naughtyness and they are on the 'rain cloud', very bad behaviour and they get put onto 'storm cloud'. Every child sees this happening so they can see that good behaviour is rewarded and bad behaviour is punished.

Each class will have rules which each child will have to adhere to. Like tidying away after each activity and so on. Every child has to get involved.

If there is physical violence, the child is taken out of the classroom and usually sees the Head. Parents are spoken to and the child can be made to work in seclusion or join another class for half the day as punishment.

[Rhubarb]

Also, don't blame this other boy for your son's behaviour. Your son has to learn to take responsibility for his own behaviour. If he sees you putting the blame onto this other boy then he will quickly realise that this is a good way of getting out of trouble.

If your boy is generally a good lad, then you've nothing to fear. But if he follows the naughty ones and copies their behaviour, that's your problem, not theirs.

[nametaken]

It's gonna be OK, honest . I could have written your post 6 years ago. My son and the boy next door started school together and they were friends before school. This little boy has serious problems with behaviour and discipline and I also wanted to ask the teacher to separate them. But I didn't.

On the first day of school, I got called in from the playground where all the mums were waiting coz the teacher wanted a word with me. The pair of them had been fighting, and the teacher told me off (very mildly) because my ds had been fighting and obviously, she didn't know this other boy.

Within a week, she could see exactly what this other boy was like and had had many complaints from other parents.

She dealt with it appropriately, and yours will too.

Don't worry.

And come back and update us

[nametaken]

and of course what Rhubarb said, about rewarding good behaviour and taking responsibility for ones actions.

[wannaBe]

firstly, the school probably seem unconcerned because A they have probably seen it a million times before, and B, these children are not due to start school for another six months which is a long time in the life of a 4 year old and a lot of things can change.

They will almost certainly have reports from the preschool so will be aware of any issues regarding this child's behavior.

You need to be careful not to label a child before they have even started school together. School is a huge transition for all children, and it is totally possible that school will affect this boy in a positive way and that his behavior will calm down.

And ultimately, the responsibility for your child's behavior is yours/his, not this other child's. If your ds is easily influenced then you need to work on some strategies to try to break that cycle and get him thinking for himself rather than following this other boy.

[mullercorner]

thanks for the more "postive" replies. I dont blame this boy at all - I am surprised at his parents though but again its another subject I wont touch upon, in fact I feel slight sorry for this child who isnt being taught social skills at home but like I said its another matter.

Its more the fact that he is very violent at 4!!! He punches, throws right hooks - surely the school wont put up with this?

Rhubarb - thank you, you have put my mind at rest!

[Rhubarb]

No, the school will not put up with violence and they will liaise closely with his parents. If they feel the boy is being neglected in any way, they will inform the authorities.

[poopscoop]

I don't think I would take any action whatsoever at the moment.

Wait and see how things pan out. The school should be able to guage what is going on pretty quickly. Then, if they take no action, and this little fellow becomes violent in the classroom, it would be an appropriate time for you to discuss it.

It may do you no favours by trying to deal with it before school starts. They may then think you are going to be one of those nightmare parents and you will be stuck with it.

Give the boy a chance too. He is only a tot.

[wikipedia]

There is of course the other scenario, where although the teachers
may have seen it all before and the parents are lovely (really they are)and everyone hopes that this kid settles down at school, that in fact the kid continues to be a nightmare.

Then the teachers devote 40% of their time to the little darling, emotionally supporting his 'poor, exhausted parents', and dividing the rest of their time between the other 20 kids who all suffer for it. Oh, and don't forget that this child will also probably require special assistance which is most likely (hmmm...where do the funds for that come from, I wonder), when at the end of the day a proper bollocking to the parents and insisiting that they take parenting classes, otherwise the kid is out, would probably be nmore productive.

[nametaken]

Thank God for Ritalin then

[wikipedia]

Sorry about the typos in that last comment! Typing fast as I am feeling most unsympathetic to hear of yet another child who has 'issues', when there are children with true needs in the classroom who have their teacher's time taken up by the kids who just have crappy behaviour!

[Rhubarb]

Actually wiki, that doesn't happen.

That's why TAs are there, unless you think that all children with special needs and/or behavioural problems should be locked away in a remote boarding school somewhere? The TAs deal with the children who need extra support and help, thereby leaving the teacher free to deal with the rest of the class.

A boy who is disruptive is removed from the classroom. The parents are offered help, but even if they refuse it, the boy is not cast out onto the junkheap, the school will help that child all it can. Some schools have specialist units now where children with more severe special needs or disruptive behaviour can learn separately, but included in the school at times such as assembly and lunches.

I think wiki, on this occasion, is talking out of her ill-informed arse.

[wikipedia]

I can think of many parents who could do with a good dose of Ritalin.

[bigTillyMint]

To be fair, the school mey be trying to get the parents to go to parenting classes or referring him to outside agencies for support, but what the school do for him is none of your business - you wouldn't want the school to tell other parents if you were having private domestic difficulties, would you?

If you are really worried, then maybe you should look for another school for your son?

Is there just one class per year group in the school, so they couldn't be in different classes?

The school may be "tougher" on behaviour than the pre-school, and will almost certainly had to deal with this sort of behaviour before. If they don't seem to be dealing with it, then go in for a chat with the teacher / head.

[nametaken]

I think wiki is talking from experience. Have any of your children ever been in a classroom with a disruptive child Rhubarb. It only takes one.

The TAs are supposed to support the teaching staff. That's why they are needed. Because one member of staff isn't enough for 30 pupils. TAs aren't security guards. You have clearly never seen the damage a disruptive kid can do - they can hold the entire class back.

[Rhubarb]

Can I not?

As a TA who works with disruptive children I think I can safely say I have.

[wikipedia]

No, Rhubarb. I don't think children with special needs or GENUINE behavioural problems should be locked away. I think the huge number of naughty kids who get away with being naughty because someone attaches a tag to their behaviour and uses it as an excuse, rather than dealing with it, and then find other nice people who will deal with it for them, are the issue. By the way. By the way you live in cloud cuckoo land if you think that disruptive kids are always removed and that there is always a TA about - that's not the real world!

[WhoTookMyMemoryStick]

I completely agree Wiki.

[MollieO]

When ds (4) started school there were two boys whose behaviour was similar to what you describe. Ds was hit on a regular basis by one of these boys and I ended up having a word with his teacher when ds had a near miss (nearly lost some teeth). Behaviour was dealt with and neither boy is a problem now. I reckon it took a term to stop and all the time I reinforced with ds that he should tell the teacher if he was hurt rather than retaliate.

[Rhubarb]

I'm sorry, but in my experience there is always a TA in every class. It is their job to support the teacher by concentrating on those children who struggle, either with behaviour or with their work. If the class is constantly being disrupted by a pupil, then that TA is not doing their job properly and the school is failing both that child and the other children.

Every school has a behaviour policy that should be adhered to.

I agree that tags are counterproductive. If a child is just naughty (and we don't know about the child in the OP's post) then the behaviour policy will be implemented. If that child is persistently disruptive and the parents are uncooperative, then there is scope for removing that child. However this is a last resort. Every child deserves an education and a chance. It's a very fine line and it's an extremely difficult balance to achieve, but it's possible. If the parents have failed that child, then it's important that we don't.

The other children should not suffer as a consequence, and if they are then the matter should be brought up with the LEA.

[nametaken]

Rhubarb, sorry if I suggested you didn't know what you were talking about.

However, surely the TAs job is to assist the children with their work? Why else do TA's have to have all the training they get now otherwise? Genuinely confused.

[Rhubarb]

Actually, the presumption that all TAs have training is wrong. There are people who have been taken on at the school where I work who have had no training and already there have been problems.

I've been trained to deal with children with special needs and/or behavioural problems.

Generally, what a class TA does is to be there to support the teacher. So if the teacher is taking a class on Lord Nelson and gives the children an activity to do, the TA may differentiate that activity for those children who are struggling. They can also take out small groups for Maths/English and do activities with them. All of this is supposed to be provided by the teacher, but more often that not the TA does a fair bit of teaching and improvisation.

If a child is being disruptive, the TA will take that child out of the classroom and deal with the situation whilst the teacher carries on. Or sometimes, the teacher will go and deal with a difficult situation, leaving the TA to supervise the class.

Is that any clearer?