What would your initial thoughts be on this child?

[Greensleeves]

Obviously no-one can actually say anything definitive from a brief impression given here, but I would be grateful for any initial thoughts/instincts/any sort of "lead" really. (It's not one of my children btw, but a child known to me). This child is nearly 8.

1. Full ed psych profile carried out at age 5 revealed a reading age of 10 and exceptional verbal reasoning/perception
   
   
2. Impaired ability to understand spatial concepts (poor with jigsaws, can't draw straight lines/angles easily etc)
   
   
3. ability to "tune out" at will when under emotional stress, ie when being reprimanded by teacher the child is able to defocus eyes and actually stop hearing what is being said
   
   
4. child cries a lot, is nervous, enuretic (child is now nearly 8) and can be disruptive.
   
   
5. Exceptional skills in certain narrow areas - eg can spell words like "oblivious" like a bright adult
   
   
6. poor social/integration skills, child does not easily make peer relationships and can often be found reading in a corner during playtimes (although does sometimes play the usual games with other children, mummies and daddies etc - they tend to reject her after a while).
   
   
7. evidence of marked musical ability, perfect pitch, can play known melodies on piano etc without help and composes own short but congruent melodies.
   
   
8. child is prone to migraines, nightmares, lying, saying inappropriate things.
   
   
   Any ideas? Mum is not happy and school even less so.

[Twiglett]

well patently she sounds on the spectrum but as you so rightly say it is impossible for anyone to tell on the limited information

has she had any follow up ed psych? can the mother push for it? does she have any additional support, any socialising work being done?

[Greensleeves]

No-one is doing anything at the moment, the whole family situation is a mess (parents have split, money tight etc). I don't think they know how to proceed.

[Greensleeves]

.

[Niecie]

Haven't read anybody else's reply, just op but I would think Aspergers Syndrome. Might be because DS has it so I know a bit but certainly some traits.

[Peachy]

Honestly?

Apart from music (though I can sing, no coordination so cant play) sounds like you've got my records from my childhood- although dont think they ahd Ed Psychs back in 1879....

Child could well ebon the spectrum, equally could be something else entirely- specifically related to marital break up? A bright child going through that stress coudl wellr eact ike this I woudl think.

She needs follow up.

[Peachy]

(FWIW I do have traits- and asd kids obv- main problem I was facing at that age was a terrible home life due to parents being in a really bad place)

[Hassled]

I would say Asperger's - have a Dyspraxic 9 year old with Aspergic traits. Numbers 1, 2, 5 and the 4 that comes after 5 () all would apply to him. The GP can refer to Community Paediatrician who will arrange diagnosis or not.

[lornaloo]

Thats what I would have said too Niecie dps cousin has this and a few this you have mentioned sound very much like him. Have the school mentioned anything along the lines of this?

[lornaloo]

The school definitely need to spend more time with this child clearly.

[Niecie]

Hassled - I am interested in the fact that you call you dc dyspraxic with aspergers tendencies. Did you get this as an official dx? I only ask as that is how I see my DS - he definitely has more dyspraxia symptons rather than AS - but he was given a dx of AS. The psych who saw him did think he had AS just social comm. problems but the review team decided AS even though the OT wasn't there and so couldn't comment on the dyspraxia.

Sorry to hijack slightly but his dx has always bothered me.

[Peachy]

dyspraxia with as tendencies quite a common dx in these parts

these things do tend to be fgeographical, due to PAeds definitions being all imortant

DS1's dx is AS with learning difficulties and SPD, in other areas SPD is a standard part of AS.

[lornaloo]

My fathers an alcaholic so growing up with that definitly affected me.
When I was 10 my spelling age was 8.
Poor consentration.
Wetting myself.
Pretending to be ill so could stay home with mum.
But I would say this child seems to be very intelligent in certain areas but not in others. Is this not sometimes the case with autism?

[Niecie]

I should have said the psych who saw him DIDN'T think he had AS - slight difference in meaning!

[Peachy]

certainly a disorganised ddevelopment can be part of the warning that flags up Sn, but not necessarily ASD.

It could well be a case of AS or indeeed HFA, it could be that she has borderline traits exaccerbated by her recent experiences, or it oculd be that her development is affected in some other way (I couldr ead well at 2, yet had SN maths support). There is certainly enough here to raise a flag, beyond that only a qualified PAed could decide

[Hassled]

Niecie - no, the official diagnosis is just Dyspraxia, but we have a lovely paediatrician who I have spoken to about concerns (social oddities, obsessions, other stuff) and he has talked about the overlap within the spectrum and has written in a standard follow up letter that DS2 has "Aspergic traits". There hasn't ever been a formal assessment though - I think in terms of diagnosis these things tend to be one or the other. In our case, the Dyspraxia is definately the more obvious SN, IFSWIM.

[Peachy]

IME if a Paed or other PAL writes something in a follow up letter, that genuinely counts as part fo the dx (not that we get many of those )

[indiasmum]

hi greenie //waves

i think it sounds like asd - both ds1 and ds2 have high functioning autism/aspergers syndome.
but obv it needs following up. quick sharp. mine were referred through gp/health visitor to paed at honeylands/rd&e.

hth

[Hallgerda]

Agree with Peachy this could just be a bright child in a troubled situation. Could something be done to build on her strengths rather than try to find a "problem"? If, say, she had piano lessons, that might help build her self-esteem and the social skills might follow. And she'd get some experience of working at something and getting some reward through that, which might bring better motivation at school. Perhaps drama might help with the social skills?

On what basis is it being assumed that she has an impaired ability to deal with spatial concepts? Could be she just doesn't see the point or is working harder on something else. And what, really, is wrong with reading in the corner at playtime? Most adults I know don't feel sociable at all times, and many find reading more relaxing than conversation, so why should we expect children to be different. And can't everyone do the "tuning out" thing? (I didn't think it was a special ability of mine...)

I wouldn't have thought that what you describe is sufficiently far out of the ordinary as to point to autism. I'm rather sad for this little girl that her family and her school can't see the many positives.

[ahundredtimes]

My initial thoughts would be that this child probably has a vast split between his left and right brain functions.

The child could have NVLD or AS or dyspraxia - or all of them - but a dx is only helpful so the mother can get some literature to help her understand her child.

Initially, I would suggest the mother creates a 'safe place' for the child. With music, to help with the migraines and the signs of stress. Music is very ordering for the right brain.

It might be helpful for her to know that she needs to verbalise everything for the child - literally spell it all out - as the child possibly can't 'visualise' things, or understand turns of phrase.

And look into social groups and talking to the school to help the child get some support there.

[BertolinaBrecht]

hello greeny - I still owe you some post

Nos. 1, 5, both no. 4s (the first one only in part - crying and nervous), and 6 sound like me as a child. AFAIK I'm NT. I was 'oversensitive' (harrumph). of course she might be on the spectrum - I'm no expert. What is certainly the case is that she needs support. I remember I found the constant assumptions that difficulties with other children were all my fault - and the explicit demand that I become as much like the others as possible - extremely soul-destroying.