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School waiting lists - unfair

73 replies

JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 15:46

Hope this is the right place to post.

DD1 is due to start school this September. Despite living extremely close to 4 primary schools we didn't get a place as they are all oversubscribed (plus one is Catholic which we aren't). Obviously we put her name on all the waiting lists. The furthest distances for 1st round offers were all less than a few hundred metres.

There is a brand new academy opening near us which we also applied to and got a place (you could apply as an extra choice). Unfortunately, as we learn more about this school we are disliking it more and more. We are really hoping that a place opens up for us at one of our original choices.

I have rung to check DD1's position on the waiting lists and decided to do an update ring today only to discover that she has gone backwards on the list! Apparently late applications have pushed her back.

Will this be due to LAC/SEN? Or will someone really be prioritised over DD1 because of distance? IF so, that's incredibly unfair as we followed all the rules and time scales. There's no point applying till you feel like it then is there?

I am fighting back tears here. I really feel let down by our council. Can someone explain it to me please?

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NorwaySpruce · 23/07/2014 15:53

I'm not sure why you are so upset. You have a school place, though not your first choice.

Once you are on a waiting list, you must expect to move up or down as other people move into and out of the area, or need to change schools.

If you had to move tomorrow, wouldn't you expect to be placed fairly on any waiting list, even if it meant being placed ahead of others?

Perhaps the people ahead of you had second thoughts about the Academy too.

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FrozenAteMyDaughter · 23/07/2014 16:00

Jimmy, did the Academy count as an LA school offer though or did you apply directly to the school? I ask because we had the option to apply to 6 schools as part of our LA application and then could also apply separately to a new free school directly. Getting that offer would not have counted as an offer from the LA (and shouldn't have as there is no guarantee that the school will actaully open in September).

If your situation is the same then presumably the LA are still obliged to find you a school place somewhere?

Apologies if this doesn't apply in your situation.

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noramum · 23/07/2014 16:06

Moving up and down the waiting list is fairly normal. DD has a friend who jumped ahead of 50 children because her brother got a space and suddenly sibling status overruled distance in her case.

You could asked why a child was moved higher than yours and re-read the application rules to know what circumstances are higher than distance.

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prh47bridge · 23/07/2014 16:08

Any late applicants will have missed out on places they would have got if they had applied on time. So there is a point in applying on time. However, the council's hands are tied. The Admissions Code (which has the force of law) says that they cannot put late applicants at the back of the list. If a late applicant is higher in the admission criteria than you the council has no choice. They must put the late applicant ahead of you in the waiting list.

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mankyscotslass · 23/07/2014 16:09

My understanding is that waiting lists work on the same selection criteria as the normal allocations.

So if someone moves into the area and needs a school place, and lives closer to the school than you, or meets a criteria further up the list than you do, then they will be allocated the place that comes up. This would include children who perhaps had not originally listed the school in the original allocation round, but may now want to be on the waiting list.

So yes, it is entirely possible that you could drop down the list as new people move into the area closer to school than you, or are further up the selection criteria.

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LIZS · 23/07/2014 16:32

It will more likely be that someone has perhaps moved closer or, if siblings get higher priority, another child may have been admitted further up the school and therefore his brother/sister gets in ahead of your dd on the list. You were happy with your plan B , have the courage of your convictions and at least give it a try. Resenting other children getting in ahead of yours, be they LAC, Statemented, siblings or have a closer address will simply make the years ahead miserable for you all.

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DeWee · 23/07/2014 16:52

The reasons why people have moved ahead of you are simply that they would have been ahead of you in the admissions process.
It may be: Exceptional circumstances (eg witness protection)
Sibling link (older sibling gets a place higher up the school)
Moved closer
Also I think looked after children (which includes adopted) and army children also get priority, but I'm not sure on that.

I think if a child is statemented and the school named, then they get a place even if there is no space. That won't effect waiting position, however it may effect when you get in, because then 2 children have to leave before no 1 gets offered a place.

Like ISAs: waiting lists can go down as well as up...

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scrappydappydoo · 23/07/2014 16:55

Hi Op, just to say we were in a similar position several years ago - we ended up on the waiting list for two years which is quite unusual in our area. I feel your pain about going up and down the list, we live in a gossipy village and so I was aware of who got in and why and it really did cover a whole range of reasons - I didn't mind the LAC or SEN admissions but the distance ones really bugged me too. It was just circumstances. My advice is to grin and bear it! Stay on the waiting lists but throw yourself into the new school because your DD will pick up on your attitude - I was devastated with allocated school at first but actually ummed and ahhed when we finally got offered a space (still took it though!). Hang in there and have lots of Wine and Cake

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 17:16

Thanks for all your quick answers.

Norway I'm upset because I do not like the school place she has. It is a brand new school, information is being released slowly, and the more we learn the more we realise that it is not the school for us. If I had to move I would definitely expect to be at the bottom of the list and understand that I have applied late. Why does my DD have to miss out on a place we applied for in good time because someone else was disorganised? Why are they prioritised over her when her application was done correctly? If I moved nearer to the school tomorrow I wouldn't expect her to be bumped up the list as we would have moved after applications were due in.

Frozen the academy was a separate application. We were offered a school (which we hadn't chosen) by the LA but we declined it as it is a very poor school (hence it had spaces in a very oversubscribed area).

prh47 thanks. Boo. Still not fair though.

LIZS I know I have to accept it. I wasn't actually happy with plan B. It was just plan B. I don't resent LAC/SEN children getting in ahead of my daughter at all.

scrappydappydoo Love your name! Thank you. I am always looking for the positives in our actual school place and as far as DD is concerned we think it is the greatest school ever.

Thanks everyone for answering, I really appreciate your comments Smile

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minionmadness · 23/07/2014 17:35

Horrible situation to be in... DN has a ds in YR2 in one school but didn't get her dd into the same school and has been allocated one 2 miles in the opposite direction of her house. She has gone from place 8 down to 2 then back up to 6 again.

As others have said it just the system... you are still allowed to feel unhappy about it though.



She

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LIZS · 23/07/2014 17:43

Why does my DD have to miss out on a place we applied for in good time because someone else was disorganised? Why are they prioritised over her when her application was done correctly? They may not have been disorganise d. Maybe they have had to move and apply there due to dv, change of job , divorce, bullying of older sibling or any myriad of perfectly genuine reasons. Once the first round of allocations are made the whole process starts again. You imply the prioritising of LAC, SEN , closer distance et al are "unfair" but that forms part of the same rules which you say you followed. Has your dd ever been at or near the top of the list ? Chances are the ones above her are also on other lists (assume she is too) so there may still be movement if a place comes up elsewhere.

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 17:54

LIZS I said before that I don't disagree with prioritising LAC/SEN. And I don't disagree with the scenarios you have suggested either. That is why I posted. I wanted to know if there were genuine reasons for my DD's move down the list.

And thank you Minion. I am unhappy about it regardless of whether it's fair or not.

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 17:56

And LIZS I know everything that you said is right. I'm just very touchy today!

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titchy · 23/07/2014 18:06

So what system would you prefer OP? People who have to move lose out cos they can't be allocated a place in the first round of admissions. By the time they are able to submit their application they may have lost out because of successful appeals so have to wait for more kids to turn down a place before the school gets to PAN. If the waiting list was still ordered by date they'd be permanent at the bottom!

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Deverethemuzzler · 23/07/2014 18:06

It may be because people who didn't get their first choice have been allocated your first choice because they meet the criteria?
I don't know where you live but my borough has a lot of movement so families come in and out all the time.
This makes waiting lists complicated

Children who are LAC get priority and so do adopted children and those with SEN.

I appreciate your upset but perhaps your school will turn out to be much better than you think?

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 18:15

I hope it does!

I do think the system is flawed. It didn't seem this complicated when my nephews began school (now teenagers). I wish we just had the old style local school and catchment area system.

Obviously I don't wish that families in need miss out on school places. I don't know why I'm not allowed to want my DD to go to a good local school though? Surely she is important too?

And to clarify again I know LAC/SEN have priority and I think that's great.

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 18:17

I hate typing. I sound like a right moody cow on this thread! I really do appreciate your input and you have answered my OP which was "explain the system to me" Smile

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Deverethemuzzler · 23/07/2014 18:21

You can ask the school for a copy of their waiting list policy.

I had to do that recently because i was going to tribunal.

FWIW I didn't think you were being resentful of LAC/SEN.

If I did i wouldn't have posted. I am fed up of those sort of threads Smile

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FrozenAteMyDaughter · 23/07/2014 18:22

It may be fair, and is, but i agree it must be very frustrating nonetheless. We are in Bromley which is q very over subscribed area. One very popular schooltold us at the open day not to be disheartened as they were still making waiting list offers well into the autumn term because things change all the time.

Annoying because you have bought the uniform and your child will have starTed to settle but 7 years is a long time.

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FrozenAteMyDaughter · 23/07/2014 18:24

Typing on phone. Apologies for weird typos

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TheRealMaryMillington · 23/07/2014 18:26

Of course you are not being unreasonable to want your DD to go to a good local school. And it is RIDICULOUS that so many kids cannot do that. So much for "choice" - IMO it is smoke and mirrors to pit parents against each other and divert attention from the real problems in the education system.

I would say hold your nerve and keep waiting. There will be kids on various lists at the same time and also once term starts the waiting lists are likely to get shorter as people find they are happy with where they have ended up. My youngest (3rd child) is just starting, and there was quite a lot of traffic in the first couple of terms. Whilst I am sure you'd rather not end up starting her somewhere and moving her, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

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hiccupgirl · 23/07/2014 18:53

It isn't that the system has changed dramatically since your nephews started school. The difference is that current teenagers are in low birth rate years in most areas and parents did have a lot of choice on where to choose. In some areas secondary schools are being marked for closure because the birth rate was so low around 2000 up to more recently.

Unfortuantley our 4 yr olds are in a very different world with a high birth rate and a real demand on places in lots of areas. I know it doesn't seem fair but the LA can legally only follow the rules for the order of admissions.

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May09Bump · 23/07/2014 18:57

I got told I was 32rd on the waiting list for an outstanding school (midterm application) - yet low and behold two weeks later I was offered a place. Moral of the story - you still might be offer a place! Good luck.

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JimmyCorkhill · 23/07/2014 19:41

Thank you everyone. I've calmed down a bit now!! You have all spoken sense and it's nice to hear the success stories too.

What have they put in the water then to get so many children recently Grin?

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ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 24/07/2014 07:58

Mary, it isn't choice - parents can express preferences, that's all. Unless class sizes are to be unlimited or portakabins shipped in and out at will, taking up already reduced playgrounds etc, there is no solution that gets every parent the school they want.

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