NC levels discussed with Year 2 child

(21 Posts)
wigglywoowoo Sat 08-Mar-14 16:53:49

Is it necessary for a teacher to discuss NC levels with a Y2 child. DD's teacher clearly has this week, leading to an evening of tears from my DD. We have never discussed my daughters levels with her as it is such a random scale, that there was no point. The school have told us her levels and targets though and from what DD has said be doesn't sound like she will be meeting her target.

I think I may be getting all PFB about it. hmm

TheBuskersDog Sat 08-Mar-14 16:59:24

There is no reason why a teacher should discuss levels with a Y2 child. The child should know what their targets are in literacy and maths and what they need to do to meet them, but they are nothing to do with levels.

adoptmama Sat 08-Mar-14 17:02:58

My DD knows her levels because she likes to look at her report with me and see that she has progressed. They have the attainment targets in the back of their reading record books and the teacher highlights against what they can do. Don't see why on earth it would be upsetting for a child to have the teacher discuss this with them.

wigglywoowoo Sat 08-Mar-14 17:13:22

The discussion with my daughter, from what dd says was that the teacher said she was "disappointed that she achieved X and she should have been a Y". This was a NC grade from a test and there were was nothing about what dd needed to improve/change but dd does know which questions were wrong.

ReallyTired Sat 08-Mar-14 17:17:43

I think that discussing targets with a small child is hideous. A child needs to know what their next steps are in learning, but they don't need to know that potentially they risk missing that magical level 2B / level 3.

A child should be encouraged to work hard and do their best. If a child behaves well in class, attends school, does their homework then it is 100% the school's fault if she misses her target.

"disappointed that she achieved X and she should have been a Y"

Is teacher blaming the child for poor teaching. If a child has the right attitude for learning and good attendence then they should acheive their target.

adoptmama Sat 08-Mar-14 17:26:03

then the issue isnt that the teacher discussed the level, but that the teacher told your DD that her test was disappointing and she should have done better, as this seems to be what is upsetting her.

wigglywoowoo Sat 08-Mar-14 17:54:24

I think I have a rounded view of DD and I know that she makes silly mistakes at times and but I know she tries hard and the teacher has said this to us too.

I don't think dd needs to be told anything is disappointing, just what she needs to do to improve and telling her NC levels doesn't achieve this. As far as i know dd knows nothing about the magical level 2B / level 3 all she understood from the converstion was that she had failed and disappointed the teacher. Pretty devastating for a teacher pleaser! DD takes everything to heart and we discussed this with the teacher last parents evening.

adoptmama Sat 08-Mar-14 18:16:22

Oh I totally agree with you about how devastating this kind of remark can be to a child wiggle. I think the teacher's choice of words were thoughtless and insensitive, and show, possibly, a lack of understanding of both your DD's sensitivity and effort.

The issue isn't so much whether or not a teacher should/needs to discuss levels with a child (and with some children it is motivating and helpful, though only if coupled with information about what they need to do to get there) but whether in this case the teacher gave helpful feedback to your DD. And it sounds like it wasn't! I would focus on the fact the feedback did nothing to help your DD know where she needed to improve and go and see the teacher. Explain how upset she was by the use of the word 'disappointing' as it has made her feel she has failed and ask if the teacher can spend some time explaining next steps to her so that she has a clear idea of what she needs to do as well as what she is already doing well.

wigglywoowoo Sat 08-Mar-14 18:31:49

Thanks for the advice. I do understand the teachers frustration and I think I will judge it by how DD is feeling over the next few days.

ReallyTired Sat 08-Mar-14 18:37:15

" think I have a rounded view of DD and I know that she makes silly mistakes at times and but I know she tries hard and the teacher has said this to us too."

She is a child. Lets be more precise she is a young child. Its OK to make silly mistakes, we all make silly mistakes. You cannot ask more of child than they that they try their best. If her result is disappointing to her then she needs a hug rather than a telling off. If the result is disappointing to the teacher then the teacher needs to grow up and manage her own feelings in an appriopiate way.

Child blaming for a lack of achievement is only fair in circumstances when the child has a poor attitude to learning. Even then a year 2 child is still learning the class rules and how to learn.

Some teachers have got primary school tests completely out of proportion.

Feenie Sat 08-Mar-14 18:44:16

Especially since the tests are only a small part of year 2 assessment in any case.

mrz Sat 08-Mar-14 19:15:04

Unfortunately the DfE and Ofsted think all children should know their levels nothing to do with primary school tests - madness IMHO!

junkfoodaddict Sat 08-Mar-14 22:08:43

mrz agreed!
I am a parents as well as a teacher and yes, I would be angry that my child came home and telling me he didn't achieve his 2b or level 3 in reading, writing maths or whatever. But unfortunately OFSTED and the government think that it IS a requirement for children to know exactly what level they are currently working towards (the next sub level up from where they are). A lot of schools in the town I work (all but one a RI school and criticised in a recent OFSTED paper entitled 'The Unlucky Child' - I think it was called that!) now have level ladders displaying children's names because 'apparently' anyone of any authority walking into a classroom 'needs' to know the current levels of attainment. Children know what colour band/level they are in reading - they have to be. It was a favourite of OFSTED to hear children read and talk about their levels.
But if you think that is bad, teachers are now required to give WRITTEN feedback to children as young as 5 in their books and give them time to 'repsond' to marking and develop a 'conversation' around their work. Some schools state this should only happen for a few each lesson whereas other 'hardcore' schools insist teachers do this for EVERY child in EVERY piece of work.
But apparently we don't work all that hard when doing this! grin

pixiepotter Sun 09-Mar-14 00:42:51

Strange!! I have just demanded that the teacher of my DD3 who is 8, tells DD what level she scored when ever they do mock SATS.I can't think of anything more soul destroying than ploughing through a test and then not being told how you got on.I am sure this is poor teaching practice

BrianTheMole Sun 09-Mar-14 00:55:45

Yes I agree with that pixie. My dd wants to know how she's getting on, and then she knows where to improve. It gives her confidence to be in control of that, wherever she can. If she can't improve on it, well thats cool, she's done her best, but I don't know why it is a good thing to keep it a secret confused

The one that riles me as a teacher is the instruction for me to display leveled examples of work. Fine for the 3a child who is proud, but how does the barely-2c child feel about it? I hate it and keep 'forgetting' to update that display...

My pupils know what their next steps are, be it remembering full stops or using apostrophes correctly. It is not vital for them to know whether that makes them a 3c or a 4c.

littleducks Sun 09-Mar-14 19:37:21

dd is bright and did well in her yr2 SATS assessments, we didn't tell her the scores and neither did her teacher. However in yr 3, she was told her targets and these were highlighted from a list that stated the next level up. All the class had targets such in the back of their books and different sheets deep urgent upon the level they were asking for.

I asked her new teacher about it and was told it was feedback following an OFSTED inspection (and that dd had been chuffed when seeing hers were high..... not sure how I would feel if she was struggling academically)

wigglywoowoo Sun 09-Mar-14 21:55:39

While I understand that the teacher may be required to advise a child of their level, this is valueless if the child does not understand the scale and my DD does not. I don't think that NC sublevels are particularly easy to understand either. DD was given her x out of y score which she understood and I feel that was sufficient.

mrz Mon 10-Mar-14 07:20:55

It is valueless wigglywoowoo and I agree giving a score or telling them how many more they needed for the next level would be more useful.

columngollum Mon 10-Mar-14 19:48:42

Poor and destructive teaching. Hopefully she's not normally like that. And if she is, then maybe you could suggest that she takes up landscape gardening as a career.

2cats2many Mon 10-Mar-14 21:11:28

There is also a flip side to children knowing their levels. My friends Y2 dd has been told by her teacher that she is a level 3. She also knows the levels of other children in the class.

She told her mum last week that she didnt need to try anymore because she is already level 3.

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