Primary class size m2

[marl]

HI, does anyone know whether there is any point arguing against M2 quoted by an LA in a school appeal? The LA are suggesting that infant class sizes should be 63m2. The school we are appealing for has 58m2. The old DFE documents on this called 'assessing the net capacity of schools' suggests 49M2 is what is necessary plus additional 14m2 which can be cupboard/storage space. The LA are telling me 63M2is necessary which is why they keep the PAN to 28 and not 30 and they use guidance on school buildings issued by DfE - which of course is difficult to apply to older school buildings. Any help gratefully received as this seems to be the only strong argument they are putting in their statement so I'm keen to be able to dismiss it if at all possible, particularly since it contradicts what I have read.

[mrz]

Is it for a reception place because there is a difference according to age of child and use of the room.

[prh47bridge]

Whilst the additional 14m2 can include stores it should predominantly be for teaching, either within the classroom or in shared areas. So the fact that the classroom is on 58m2 is not enough on its own to justify a PAN of 28. It depends on the size of the shared areas.

Ask them for the calculated and actual net capacity of the school. The calculated capacity should be two figures - the lower figure will be 90% of the higher figure. The actual net capacity will be somewhere between those two figures. If it is near the bottom of the range that helps you as it shows the school can cope with more children.

Before the current guidelines came into use the minimum for a class of 30 was 48m2. The panel may take the view that it is still enough for 30 children.

[mrz]

EYFS states that there should be 2.3m2 per child in reception

[prh47bridge]

Indeed but that particular EYFS requirement only applies to registered providers. Schools are exempt from registration so the 2.3m2 per child does not apply to them. Many would be in breach if it did including this school - according to the figures given by the OP they are operating with 2.07m2 per child in Reception. The LA's case is clearly referring to the net capacity calculation which does not differentiate between Reception and other years.

[marl]

Thank you. I will start the maths as per the above! I spoke to DfE today who said that they are working on more like 2.1 anyway now for Reception as the coalition have moved them to that..though I guess that doesn't necessarily mean the LA are. THey also suggested I should use BB 99 briefing framework which suggests a 'standard classroom' should be 56-63m2 for 30 pupils so I'm guessing I could also use that since they are not at the bottom of that. Also the LA are using mobile classrooms of 50-56m2 in some schools for classes of 30 and the other schools they are suggesting we should go to have PANs of 30 but classrooms of the same size or only slightly bigger, so I'm guessing I could bring that up? Thanks both of you. Any further suggestions most appreciated!

[marl]

Hi prh47bridge, I have had a look for the figures you suggested. I have the Net capacity assessment for the school. There are lots of 'storecupboards etc' that would presumably give the higher figure with 'non net area.' All those columns are blank under the column that says 'non net area if known', so the only figure on that document is the Net Capacity. Is there something missing do you think or am I just not understanding? Sorry to pester! I only get one stab at it so I have to get it right otherwise chaos will begin with the logistics of family life I think!

[prh47bridge]

If what you are looking at is the output from the DfE's spreadsheet, just above the net capacity are two numbers labelled "maximum workplaces available" and "minimum workplaces available". Those are the calculated range for net capacity.

By the way, it is not true that the coalition have moved the figure to 2.1m2 per child. If you work it out you will find that comes to 63m2 for 30 children which has been the figure used for net capacity assessment of primary schools since 2002. So nothing to do with the current government.

It is certainly worth bringing up if other schools in the area have 30 children in classrooms the same size as this one.

[marl]

Thank you - I have found it. It would all have worked, but since the LA let a whole extra class in for Year 1 as a result of high local numbers, the school are over this maximum because they themselves decided this would not affect health and safety I guess...So maybe I would be better not bringing this up, or using precedent in the previous year group as an argument. At least I've got to the bottom of the figures anyway - thanks very much for your help.

[prh47bridge]

A precedent in the previous year at this school is a much better argument than anything that is going on elsewhere. As long as this class remains below 30 you have a decent chance of winning provided you can make a good case as to why this is the right school for your child.

[marl]

Thankyou. Really appreciate your advice and the time you have spent answering.

[admission]

There is now complete and utter confusion over what should or must be the minimum size of classrooms. The latest school building regs 2012 only talk about reasonable and some specifics in terms of toilets etc. The consultation that took place talked about dropping all the building guidelines but I am unclear what exactly is now the legal status of them.
The easiest and possibly most sensible figure is to look at what the DfE are now proposing in their new standard design primary school and all the rooms, no matter whether it is reception or year 6 are 62 sq metres with no practical space. That is what all new classrooms will be built to.
However there has to be realism here and the vast majority of primary schools will have been built when the regs stated 48 or 52 sq metres and the LA cannot retrospectively start cutting class numbers simply because the regs may have changed.
The first question I would be asking is what DfE guidance the LA is actually using and see if they are using the 1999 or 2010 regs or are they actually interpreting the 2012 regs somehow .
As a panel member if I am told that the PAN is 28, then my immediate reaction is to consider the size of the classroom and ask the question why the school cannot take 30 in the class which is the maximum allowed by the Infant Class Size Regs. The difference between 58 and 62 sq metres is not that large. I would therefore be asking questions like, what are the sizes of the other classrooms in the school and how many pupils do they have in each. My suspicion would be that you will find some mismatches with classes of more than 28. Establishing the numbers in each classroom will potentially mean that you can argue that to increase the class to 30 is acceptable as that is exactly what they have in other classrooms.
I think I would also ask what the class set up is, do they sit on tables of 4 or 6 or 8. Obviously if it was 4 then you may well have 7, but if it was 6 then they would have 5 tables, with two spare places if only 28 in the room. OK I know that in reception it is about learning by play, so formal tables is not necessarily appropriate but it is when they get to year 2 or year 3.
I would also ask exactly how long ago was the admission number of 28 set. I suggest this because many years ago it was the norm to set a PAN of 28 on the basis that gave room for 2 more to be admitted if they came into the area. That has not been allowed for many years but a surprising number of PANs still sit where they were set many years ago.

[marl]

Just to say prh47bridge, mr2 and admission, thank you for all your invaluable help on this. We won the appeal today and I am so relieved. Your advice was so valuable, and the amount of prep for this turned out to be ridiculously time consuming but worth it. I can only reflect on how difficult this would be for many families that would be less able to circumnavigate the systems and my shock at how ill-informed today's panel appeared to be in relation to the advice I have had from you all. The few questions they asked the LA were far from probing and they expressed complete surprise at the content of the net capacity assessment that I brought to the hearing. Thanks again anyway.

[mummakes]

@admission I know this is a super old post - but is there still confusion over m2 and how many children allowed in a class, I am appealing for a secondary school place and their smallest class size is 48m2 and have maximum class sizes of 26 - does this seem right to you?

[admission]

The honest answer is that there is no absolute standard and especially in a secondary school. A lot does depend on the classroom dimensions. You can easily have a classroom that is 60 sq metres but because it is L shaped is not really that usable for anything other than small group work. Also the reason I say especially in a secondary school is that normally in the early years there will be some kind of setting and it not unusual to have 34 in the top sets and 15 to 20 in the lowest sets. Also as you move to years 9 to 11 and there are different GCSE subjects then there again in some subjects will be smaller classes. This especially applies if the school also has a sixth form.
The school cannot equate the smallest classroom of 48 sq metres to leading to a maximum class size of 26. There will be classrooms that are considerably larger than 48 sq metres and it would be very unproductive if they were then keeping to maximum 26 in every class, so I question whether 26 is the average class size or the maximum class size. Putting 26 pupils in a classroom of 48 sq metres would not be unusual especially if the school was built in the 60s or 70s when classroom size was expected to be 48 sq metres.

[mummakes]

@admission

Thanks so much. This is really useful. I really appreciate you taking the time. I think the school was an old building used for different purposes, and has been adapted. It wasn't build on the 70s - but as I understand then the standard was 48m2 for 30 children is that right?

[admission]

Yes going back 48 sq metres was considered appropriate for 30 pupils. It would be an interesting exercise to determine how many schools that were built before the 1990s have classrooms that are 48 sq metres and are still classed as far as PANs are concerned as being OK to hold 30 pupils. I suspect it is a figure that the DfE would not want to become apparent as it would then lead to a massive need for new and extended schools to meet the newer guidance on class sizes.

[mummakes]

@admission

Thanks so much again. So as I understand it the current guidelines are unclear (am I right in thinking one need to use a tool via the DfE website?). That standard used to be 48m2 for 30 pupils, but now that is considered too small, but in practice that is still the norm? Or is it that 48m2 is still ok for 30 pupils. Or does it simply depend on many factors, and there is no hard and fact rule - but in reality lots of school have classrooms of this size and would teach to 26 pupils.

Thank you!

[admission]

The reality is that schools have what classrooms they have and they come in all sorts of sizes and shapes. If a school gets new classrooms then they would be expected to confirm to the latest guidance, which would be 62 sq metres.
Ideally 48 sq metres would be considered to small now (especially given COVID) but that is what the school has. They continue to be considered acceptable for 30 pupils but there is a size factor here and 30 year 7 pupils are not the same as 30 year 11 pupils. The school needs to spend time in ensuring that the most sensible options are taken to maximise use of rooms that can accommodate 30 pupils. Bottom line the school can put as many pupils in each class as they wish to but if they insist on saying that they can only accommodate 26 then they run the risk of any panel saying that they have not proved their case and admitting more pupils under appeal.

[mummakes]

@admission Thanks so much, that is very clear and really helps.