What would you think if this was happening in your y3 child's class?

(187 Posts)
RunnersWorld Sat 09-Feb-13 15:13:18

And what, if anything, would you do?

One of the children is very disruptive, including bouts of physical and verbal violence, e.g.:

-Throwing chairs
-Swearing at the class and teacher
-Tearing up his own and others' work
-Pacing around the class when they are supposed to be working/listening
-Walking out of class meaning the teacher has to leave to bring him back
-There have also been two complaints from children/parents about him touching girls inappropriately (now has 121 at lunchtimes, so is constantly watched)

At least one from this list happens daily, once it was so extreme that the teacher had to remove the rest of the class from the room while two TA's tried to calm him. School was unable to contact anyone to collect him so he spent the rest of the day in the Head's office, as the TA basically refused to work with him. He's big for his age, strong and scary when he loses control.

My DS2 is in this class. I know all the detail because of my job, most parents of course will only have patchy stories relayed by their DC, but they all know there is a problem. To avoid drip feeding, I will also say I know that he is a very damaged child as a result of sexual abuse and currently living with a foster family. Other parents know nothing of this of course.

I am interested in an opinion from the POV of the parents who know nothing of his background, please.

GingerbreadGretel Sat 09-Feb-13 18:29:44

I have experienced this and have things I'd say if I were not so concerned about your sharing information you learnt through your job.

If this had been my child's class when we were going through it, I am pretty sure I would have known it from the post. Or I would have assumed it was my child's class in error which is possibly even worse.

Please ask for this post to be deleted (and think about your professional duties of confidentiality).

Chandon Sat 09-Feb-13 18:38:31

I know a boy like this, he is seriously autistic. People left the school because of the serious disruption ( class had to be evacuated twice a day). he is now in a special school, but the parents had to fight the lea like lions to get him there...

HotheadPaisan Sat 09-Feb-13 18:39:03

Oh, and DS1's class were removed one day because of his inability to cope then. He is one of the ones the other class are learning tolerance and understanding of difference about but there were times when we nearly removed him let alone anyone else. I wonder where people think these kids go though? How do they learn to socialise if they are not supported and included?

As for sharing info, I suppose I might recognise DS1 is some scenarios sometimes on MN but how else do people get advice and understand what the options are?

There will be signs he's about to lose control, he may not be able to cope FT in the class, there are a million things that could be done to help. Everyone has to want to understand and help.

LynetteScavo Sat 09-Feb-13 18:39:16

I don't there is far too much info in the first post. I think there are sadly many boys in the country this could be.

This was my DS in Y3 (apart from the inappropriate touching). DS hadn't shown any such behaviour previously, and so I (thankfully, and the very thought makes me well up even now) had lots of kind support from other parents - many of whom knew what DS had been like previously as they had volunteered in school. DS was later diagnosed with Aspergers. We moved him from that school, as they and he weren't coping. The next school really went out of the way to cater for him.

This week I went into school to complain about a Y3 boy who was making DD unhappy. I was told "There are children in this school with complex problems." I nodded understandingly, and said "I know, and things need to be put in place to help such children, like they were when DS was at this school, so other children aren't affected." I have no idea if the child who was upsetting DD had any reason for his behaviour, but it got to the point where I needed to say to the school "It stops, and it stops now." (And I pointed out I was probably the last parent to complain about such behaviour) Funnily enough, it seems to have stopped, with immediate effect. hmm I've no idea what the school have put in place, if anything, all I know is DD hasn't been hit/kicked etc by this child since.

I now think there is too much info in the OP. there is enough that a parent with a child in the same class could recognise the situation and now know details such as foster care and abuse.

It should be deleted.

lljkk Sat 09-Feb-13 18:43:20

Have only read OP.
I would think "Thank Heavens that's not my child and I hope he gets the support he needs soon."

HotheadPaisan Sat 09-Feb-13 18:45:40

This kid has been abused and removed from his family and people just want to exclude him, I don't understand that.

And why is the teacher leaving the class to get him, where is the TA? DS1 prob 'caused' all those incidents too over the last two years, it really dismays me to think most people would just have exclided him.

atacareercrossroads Sat 09-Feb-13 18:48:15

Has anyone said he should be excluded?

RunnersWorld Sat 09-Feb-13 18:52:40

Thank you all for your views - I promise I haven't shared too much, whilst making the kind of problems clear, I have changed a lot of details, as you'd expect wink

From my POV, I know the boy needs help and he's getting a lot, with all sorts of agencies involved, but it's not a straight forward as getting him help, the experts do their best, but who knows really what he needs? I don't like the impact it has on my DS's schooling, but I also know my DS has innumerable advantages compared to this child. The other parents are spitting mad and I wanted to see if that would be a common view.

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 09-Feb-13 19:10:36

I don't think your employer would be very impressed with this post even if you have changed some of the details you are still posting about a child who needs a lot of support due to abuse and with a quick search you could be quite identifiable and with the information from your other thread it wouldn't be that hard to work out the identity of the child either sad

I wouldn't be mad. But I would be concerned.

Obviously I strive to teach my children that no one deserves to have no friends, or for other children to be nasty and cruel and believe me they would both be in serious trouble if they were amongst those who tormented or bullied or excluded a child such as the boy you are talking about. And I will also be teaching them how lucky they are that their life has been happy and nothing bad has happened to make them angry upset and in need help.

But they do have a right to go to school and not have their work ripped up or be hurt . I would not expect a school to allow my child to do that to anyone.

And that boy also has a right to have an education and friends and be happy. But it sounds like alot of help and support is needed and I do hope he gets it soon as it sounds like he is in alot of pain emotionally. It's always awful to
Hear about a child who has had such a shit time and yes I would worry about the impact on my child's education but I wouldn't wish anythin but help support and understanding for the boy and that a solution can be found so everyone can enjoy school and get the most out of it. sad

lougle Sat 09-Feb-13 19:22:08

No, RunnersWorld, you are wrong. You have more than over-stepped the line. Anything that was not in public knowledge was confidential and you have broken that confidentiality, no matter how clever you might think you've been.

I am a Governor at a Special School and whilst we are told, as a Governing Body, of the general issues the school is facing, no details are shared about specifics, to the extent that you couldn't even identify if the child in question is male or female - which is pretty good going considering 75% of the school cohort is male.

By adding that you know about the details due to your job, and that you have a DS in the same class as said child, you have narrowed the field considerably.

I am still shocked and very uncomfortable knowing that there are people who work with my DD who could be sharing her life on a forum.

If you really wanted to know the POV of a parent who knows nothing of his background, you didn't need to share any of his background. But you chose to add the juicy details.

vertex Sat 09-Feb-13 19:30:12

I have to agree with others with regards to your overstepping the mark by posting the information above.

Wotnow Sat 09-Feb-13 19:37:17

It is bloody hard.
There's no easy answer.
The two kids in ds1's class were from really sad backgrounds
One of the parents of one of them attacked a teacher too a d had an injunction so she didn't come to school premises. The child attacked children in the school
There was also chilling elements of DV.. One of the kids would get v friendly with girls and isolate them mentalky from their freinds and then physically separate them from the other kids and punch them.
THe school really struggled with this child.
The class has now got 22 kids in it and the other class has 31.
I feel sorry for the kids, they have such chaotic lives, sorry for the school who have to manage this stuff and sorry for the other kids too.
My ds1 was in a melt down at home one evening and I was chilled when he told me that the way boys friendships work is that you grt strong kids around you so they can hit the other kids for you when you want it.
He said boys hurt each other when they are friends and being a friend means that you are scared of the others.
He also asked to do karate so when they came for him he could defend himself.
He was 7

tethersend Sat 09-Feb-13 20:54:41

I'm an advisory teacher for children in care; if I were working with this child, I would be very concerned indeed.

I would be concerned that the school are unable to keep him and other children safe; I would be concerned that his inadequately managed behaviour was alienating him further from his peers and impacting on his own and others' education, as well as the safety of staff and students. I would be recommending that all staff be trained in behaviour management and positive handling techniques. I would be working with his social worker to ensure he is getting appropriate therapeutic support.

I would be doing everything possible to work with the school to avoid a permanent exclusion, which could compound the child's feelings of rejection and likely exacerbate the behaviour; however, I would also be investigating alternative provision as one possible option, as the situation is serious enough to warrant parallel planning at this stage.

It is worth mentioning though, that there are many children who behave in this way who, with the right support, begin to behave appropriately and go on to thrive as popular members of the school. Please don't think that this child will be this way forever- change is possible. Unfortunately, the school have a difficult decision ahead as to whether they can provide the support he needs to facilitate that change, and at what cost to others. From the limited information you've posted, it sounds as if they could do more.

tethersend Sat 09-Feb-13 20:57:59

The details you have given certainly are very specific, so they appear to be inappropriate- if they do bear any resemblance to the child in question, I would certainly think about asking for the thread to be deleted.

Haberdashery Sat 09-Feb-13 21:05:42

OK, my DD is in year 1 and she has a child such as this in her class. Most of what you have written could be applied to this child (obviously I have no idea about the DC's background) bar the inappropriate touching, although the child can be a bit too huggy when not wanted/invited which is probably not the same thing. The child who has problems is supported on four out of five days by a dedicated one to one TA who is, seemingly, fabulous at her job. But on the day the TA isn't there, this child does disrupt the class and the very experienced teacher (getting on for twenty years experience) has to spend a lot of time out of the classroom dealing with difficult behaviour (there is another TA so the class is not unsupervised). I feel extremely sorry for this child and this child's parents. The child is a nice kid except when in full on meltdown, the parents are nice people, it is nobody's fault that the child has such awful problems with fitting into the school environment. If it was the parents' 'fault' (how would we even know?) I'm not sure what difference it would make as I don't know what anyone could possibly do to change them. That may be badly worded. I hope you know what I mean.

While I would prefer that my very peaceful, gentle, hard-working child did not have to deal with the difficult behaviour (and she has suffered physically with cut lips and bruises on a few occasions), the important point for me is that she is a) not frightened by the behaviour and b) is progressing well at school. As both these things are true, I would not dream of complaining. I strongly believe that the school is balancing the needs of the child with problems and my child (also the other children in the class) in the best way they can. I guess complaints come in when your child is being disadvantaged by the behaviour they are witnessing or if you feel the school is not doing the best they can.

In my case, I have done precisely nothing. My child is happy at school, progressing well, counts the child with challenging behaviours amongst her friends and I am happy that she is sufficiently mature to be able to tell me that she knows it's not the child's fault, that the child cannot help getting angry and that she has compassion for that child as she has told me more than once that she feels sorry for someone who cannot help themselves doing things they don't want to do. She knows that the child is finding things harder than she is and she is good about recognising the child's limitations and the fact that she cannot change the child's behaviour and just needs to accept that some people find things harder than others. To be honest, she is far more forgiving and compassionate than I am! I think this child has taught her things that may stand her in good stead as an adult.

Yes, I'd prefer the child not to be in the class. I'd prefer that the teacher didn't have to leave the class to contain the child's behaviour. I'd prefer the child to be less uncontrollable. Etc etc. But as I consider that all the professionals are doing their very best and that my child's education is not being seriously affected, I think things are OK and I would not complain unless the situation changed significantly.

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 09-Feb-13 21:08:19

I agree with tether. I won't be nasty by adding the extra information from your posting history here to prove my point purely because it would be unfair to the child you are posting about but I do think you should ask for this to be deleted and your other thread

brazilproperty Sat 09-Feb-13 21:08:32

I would be horrified if a professional were posting this about my DC even with some details changed.

Of course many of the other parents will be distressed and most or all would prefer the child to be elsewhere but the key thing is for the professionals to provide the appropriate support for the child and to reduce the impact on the rest of the class. The children are what matters.

I too think the post should be withdrawn if you do have a child in the same class as a child that you have professional dealings with.

Scootee Sat 09-Feb-13 21:14:15

I could not tolerate it because a strong 7/8yo throwing a chair could do an extremely serious injury to another child. If he actually clocked one of them over the head in a weak spot, he could actually kill someone.

The child needs a strong and physically quick and capable 121 with him 100% of the time he is in school. Otherwise he is simply too dangerous to be there.

GingerbreadGretel Sat 09-Feb-13 21:20:49

I assumed you changed some details. I still think you are in the wrong wrong. People will assume you have done that and guess up or down a year group and switch genders in their mind and very possibly recognise their own situation.

plainjayne123 Sat 09-Feb-13 21:38:01

There is not an issue with confidentiality, it could be happening in any school. If all the support is in place the child's behaviour will hopefully improve. Seems staff are doing all they can, but should there be a 1 to 1 TA who can remove child when a meltdown is starting.

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 09-Feb-13 22:23:21

I believe to is plain if I read the op and wondered if she was talking about my child or a child in my care etc a quick search could give me the answer.

123caughtaflea Sat 09-Feb-13 22:52:45

Well RunnersWorld, after the last fortnight with my child's school I am wondering if you are TA in my child's class.

I am basing that, as GingerbreadGretel says, on the assumption that age and/or gender may not be accurate etc etc - and on rereading your post, I am pretty sure you are not, mainly because there is always, always someone to collect my child at need and also because of the lunchtime situation you describe.

There are other details which differ of course. But there are some notable similarities too.

But basically, I will be looking at the TA concerned after half term and 'wondering'.

Not terribly helpful.

VonHerrBurton Sat 09-Feb-13 23:06:16

I wonder. Does anyone think that, just possibly, the op could be talking about her own child?

As I can't believe a person with a job involving access to such sensitive cp issues would be so careless with information?

Just a thought.

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