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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Expected progress from end of r to end of y2

79 replies

Iamnotminterested · 28/01/2013 10:10

Is it 2 full levels or have I dreamt that up?

Thanks.

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simpson · 28/01/2013 12:41

End of reception will finish on EYFS scores (usually a 6 or 7)...

YR1 is when they start NC levels and are expected to be a 2B by the end of yr2.

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Iamnotminterested · 28/01/2013 12:53

But what about the more able child who is working beyond the eyfs at the end of r and is given nc levels?

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ReallyTired · 28/01/2013 12:59

"eyfs at the end of r and is given nc levels? "

EYFS and national curriuclum levels don't really equate as asssement is so different. For example a child with very poor handwriting can still get a high score if they read well, and can show through play that they understand maths, literacy concepts etc. The way that children are assessed in key stage 1 is very different. Often tests are used, alongside classwork. There is virtually no play in year 2.

To do well in year 2 a child has to be able to read and write well. Ds got 2c in writing, and levels 3s in maths and reading at the end of year 2 and was 5c for pretty much everything at the start of year 6. He needed time to physically mature so he could control the pencil.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 13:06

How many children get NC levels in YR?

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Iamnotminterested · 28/01/2013 13:13

Dd2 did. Dd3 is now in r.

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redskyatnight · 28/01/2013 13:18

(I'm not a teacher but) I didn't think children were meant to be given NC levels at the end of Reception?

DD was given NC levels at the very start of Y1, so presumably they were also her "end of Reception" NC levels, but there was a very clear demarcation in EYFS pertaining to Reception and NC levels to KS1.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 13:20

I think that's great but a little unfair. I'm sure not all schools give them out so early because they don't have to for another year. And I'm guessing that every school has some child who can do something way beyond EYFS level. If all schools had to hand out levels according to what children could already do right, from YR that would be great. But I'm not sure how they'd mark the ones being taught physics and algebra by their parents. (Maybe they could have a separate mark.)

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simpson · 28/01/2013 13:26

Good question...

I have been given DD's NC levels (given last week) and I would also like to have an idea of where she will be in yr2....

Redsky - if a child has finished with EYFS (DD had finished a couple at the end of nursery) then I guess the next logical step would be to go into NC levels...

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simpson · 28/01/2013 13:26

Sorry, forgot to say DD is currently in reception....

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redskyatnight · 28/01/2013 13:32

EYFS and NC levels are totally different though. And for reporting purposes I would just expect an able child to be reported as "working beyond EYFS" - i.e. the level 9. Sounds like extra work for poor Reception teachers to have to grade against 2 sets of targets.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 13:35

The only problem with giving a vague phrase instead of a score is then no one can tell if they've progressed later on. They just fall off the end of the marking scheme.

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ReallyTired · 28/01/2013 13:41

Year one teachers often like to make their own assessment of children at the start of the year. This known as assessment for learning and is done so that teachers know the children's weak spots. Even a very bright child may have holes in their learning.

It is a total waste of time for reception teachers to assess children against two scales.

National curriculum teaching and assessment methods are not appriopiate for young children. Undoultably there are computer programes that predict children's a-level results on the basis of their EYFS.

There comes a point when actually teaching children should take priority over summative assessment.

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simpson · 28/01/2013 13:43

The other thing is that there is a cross over so it is perfectly possible for a child to be a 6 or 7 in something and a 1C in NC levels....

My DD's teacher did not assess her herself but the head of EYFS did (she was a yr2 teacher last year)...

I also think it depends how ahead they are, if my DC was a 1C in reception then that is not massively ahead iyswim...so IMO there would be no point assessing in NC levels (leave it till they start yr1)...

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simpson · 28/01/2013 13:45

DD is not assessed in EYFS and NC levels that she is ahead in, only NC iyswim...

But there are other areas she struggles with (PE and fine motor skills) that she is assessed in EYFS.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 13:55

simpson, though, your daughter's nursery was part of her school and she has the same teacher. The school also has been very supportive of your daughter so far. Other people's children might not have had that kind of continuous support. There are boys I know of who can multiply two digit numbers in Reception. Of course they might not be able to use a number square, number line, do chunking, (perhaps not division) and they may not know much about shapes, but their maths is still way above EYFS. If they'd had continuous support they probably would have had their knowledge holes filled in. The parents who taught them probably know a lot about maths but little or nothing about the curriculum. So they don't know what children are learning these days.

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ReallyTired · 28/01/2013 14:00

" There are boys I know of who can multiply two digit numbers in Reception. Of course they might not be able to use a number square, number line, do chunking, (perhaps not division) and they may not know much about shapes, but their maths is still way above EYFS."

The boys may have been hot housed by their families and have no actually understanding of what they are doing.

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MirandaWest · 28/01/2013 14:05

DD was given NC levels in a couple of areas at the end of reception. I don't anticipate her end of year 2 levels being 2 levels above those.

So far in her school career she has always been supported at the level she's at.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 14:07

They might have been. I suppose that depends on what we mean by understanding. Both boys can count beyond a thousand, do all the easy times tables and some of the odd numbers beyond fives. They have no trouble with addition and subtraction and one is learning square roots, (the other isn't.) I wouldn't say either boy has no understanding. If you asked them to explain how multiplication works and why it works they might not be able to do it. But many adults can't explain it either.

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Tgger · 28/01/2013 14:21

I will play devil's advocate and say, does it matter? IMO there isn't much point in assessing a YR child on NC levels as it is inappropriate for their level of maturity. I was happy with DS's end of YR report "Working at above age expectations" or something (can't remember wording) in literacy and maths.

I enjoy being ignorant of these levels and using my instinct more. So, DS (Y1) can read fluently. His writing has improved a lot in Y1 as has his spelling and punctuation, but there is still quite a long way to go before he is writing (relatively) as fluently as he is reading, and I would expect him to be able to do this or be on the way to be doing this by Y3 I think. His comprehension is good in terms of understanding, but he hasn't started written comprehension, or at least not in a way I would expect of a 7/8 year old.

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simpson · 28/01/2013 16:04

DD's spelling, writing and reading is very good (these are the areas that she is assessed in NC levels)...but her numeracy is very average and she finds it a lot harder.

Yes, I could do loads at home with her numeracy wise but a) I don't want to b) she won't want to and c) as someone else said, I want her to understand what she is doing...

I don't think there is any point teaching a child how to do something at home until they are ready for it.

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lljkk · 28/01/2013 16:17

The only problem with giving a vague phrase instead of a score is then no one can tell if they've progressed later on. They just fall off the end of the marking scheme.

I truly think that common sense should be allowed to apply. Most of us don't need a marking scheme to tell that our DC have progressed or don't seem to have made progress.

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 16:19

I agree that children need to understand what they're doing. But I don't agree that just because a child can do it then they don't understand it. I also think the person only suggested understanding as a possible issue. Some children do just get things straight away especially if they're taught in an intuitive way.

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simpson · 28/01/2013 20:13

I agree that some kids mature quicker then others in some areas so are able/ready to pick things up earlier...

I certainly don't think DD will go 2 NC levels from the end of reception to yr2 as she will not be mature enough iyswim...

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numbum · 28/01/2013 20:35

Both of my DC were given NC levels at the end of reception (DS' were numeracy related, DD's were in literacy). DS was levelled a 2c for maths and he was a level 4 in his KS1 SATS.

Children who are hot housed possibly wont make the expected progress IMO because, as L&S pointed out, the parents might not be hot housing in the correct areas to match the curriculum or the children lose interest after being forced to do things they don't want to do

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learnandsay · 28/01/2013 20:42

And then there's the truly sad possibility that the parent studied the curriculum, knows a lot about maths, tutored the child brilliantly in all areas of the subject and the teacher said no, she's not going to study these things because those are reserved for higher years. She just has to start all over again and that's that. (It happens.)