my child reads and write at top level, but her Phonics group is not!!!

(349 Posts)
B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 15:12:22

My daughter is a very bright child at Y1...she is reading and writing very well...however when it came to grouping them, she is not been located in the top group in Phonics, although she reads the same level and writes the same as those children on the top group. This is very confusing for her amd me, as I dont understand on what basis this happened. She can be at times shy and she observes her peers very well and learn from them as she is bi-lingual. In the gropu she is in now, the difference between the level she reads and the level of some other children is huge...perhaps 7 colour reading band!!!

This has affecte dmy childs confidence as she thinks she hasnt been good enough, or why she is reading the same book as her reading partner, and he/she is in another group. ALl confusing for me, I am gonna talk to the teacher tomorrow, and I dont know how to say it. i dont want to convey that I dont trust their judgment, but this is gonna hold my child back and crashes her confidence, as the groups are gonna stay the same until the end of teh year! Can I ask the teacher to move my child to the other group? Is Phonics the knowledge that they learn to apply to their writing and reading, so how can she read and write higher than her phonics knowledge? She is already reading sounds that she has not been officially taught, by working it out on herself....

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 21:07:30

by which time the higher group have moved onto another "list" hmm

yellowsubmarine53 Mon 10-Dec-12 21:10:12

I'm not sure that any discussion about 'lists' will be helpful (or have much to do with reading tbh).

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 21:12:03

I see what you mean Learnandsay but the teacher clearly told me that my child is above average in reading and writing, so for me to ask for a list of what she needs to know more would have to be what she needs to know to match the other groups level. My question was when she admits she is above average then why she is put in average group with a very big range of ability. I don't believe in streaming, I think a class is a made of all children (specially at this age) with different interests and abilities. But now that they have done it, how an above avg child is in a big group where all children are average or below as far as one of the mums was telling me that her child struggles with reading and stayed in early reception books . Her child is also in the same group as mine. It just doesn't add up. I don't understand the grouping system.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:12:19

This isn't about reading. The daughter already reads well. This is about not conforming to the teacher's phonics expectations without knowing precisely what those expectations are. So, they need to be quantified.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 21:12:41

or phonics

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 21:16:21

I don't ability group my class. My tables are mixed ability for all lessons although children move around.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:16:52

b4r4, above average can mean anything, national average, class average, the teacher's experience of average? (I don't know what she means.) In so far as I understand this conversation it is about the fact that your daughter is not among the top children in the class for phonics. You're upset about it. She's upset about it and you want to fix it.

To do that (as far as I can see,) you need to find out from the teacher what your daughter needs to learn. And then your daughter needs to learn it.

simpson Mon 10-Dec-12 21:19:47

How is your DD's writing/spelling??

That is probably a better (or more obvious way) to check her phonic knowledge??

And I don't mean that every word is spelt correctly but that they are phonetically correct ie how the word sounds iyswim...

For example my DD wrote "I luv yoo" which is obviously spelt incorrectly but phonetically correct iyswim....

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 21:20:44

Yes she can read thought, through, but I am not sure if u put "ough" she can sound it out!

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 21:30:06

Can I upload a file of her writing here?

sittinginthesun Mon 10-Dec-12 21:31:29

I would simply ask the teacher. Explain your daughter's concerns, say that you are not asking for your daughter to be moved, but just ask for clarification as to how the groups work. That's not being pushy, it's just asking.

Our lovely school does group from Reception, and the groups are flexible.

My eldest (naturally very ordered and quietly competitive nature) was fully aware of all the groups, and who was where since Reception. Some children just pick up on these things - he never mentioned it to his friends, it was just in his brain the same as birthdays and football league tables. I think that their position in the groups is very important to some children, no matter his the teachers try to name the tables etc.

simpson Mon 10-Dec-12 21:32:26

I don't think you are going to get any more info until you speak to her teacher but be prepared to smile sweetly and gush about how supportive you are etc etc..and how you both want the best for your DD etc...

It's not worth getting into ructions with your DC teacher (trust me I have been there!!! And there is still most of the school year to go..)

Good luck, I * hate* talking to my DC teachers (although not so much this year as they have both got fab,approachable teachers tbh).

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:38:37

You probably can't upload the writing here, no. But you might be able to use this wikisend.com/

I've never used it myself.

CanIHaveAPetGiraffePlease Mon 10-Dec-12 21:39:52

Mrz -I've always respected your posts .sort of tangent but sort of connected question. My daughter is likely to go to a school that streams for an hour a day (I think. Its for phonics so however that takes off) with rwi across 3 classes. So they muddle all 3 classes for this. Similarly with numeracy from year 1 . Is this really really bad? Should I consider the other school? (I actually want her in your class!)

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 21:42:21

Thanks loads to you all for your honest and genuine responds. I will write once I have talked tomorrow. I don't want to confront the teacher... That's why I started the thread and as always it is helpful! Thx loads to u all !

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:46:54

CanIhave, how do you feel about teachers streaming for phonics when it is they who have taught the phonics in the first place?

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:48:27

I think it's different for maths at secondary level when the teachers are dealing with pupils from all over the place who are at the same age but at different abilities.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 21:49:09

I know it's something that RWI does and it's one of the things I dislike about the programme. Really it depends if your child is the able reception child sent off to Y2 (with all the pressure for a child who may not be emotionally mature) or the struggling Y6 sent to reception (imagine how good that is for self esteem)

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/feb/09/dividing-pupils-ability-entrench-disadvantage

simpson Mon 10-Dec-12 21:51:31

My DC school stream for phonics and in yr2 mix the 2 classes together and split them all into 2 groups...

DD's reception class is split into 3 groups for phonics and 3 groups for numeracy (based on ability)...

I don't know what they do for yr1 tbh as I can't remember what DS did blush as he is now in yr3...

Haberdashery Mon 10-Dec-12 21:53:34

DD's school seems to group children by mixed ability and so far it doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Actually, I'm not sure mixed ability is the word or really what I mean - at this age it's more mixed tolerance re paying attention for an extended period.

sittinginthesun Mon 10-Dec-12 21:54:19

Mrz - I am interested in this too. What if you have a couple of children working ahead of a class in maths, and therefore coasting and used to being top of the class. Better for them to be middle of a higher year group to push them more? Just wondered what you would do?

plisplas Mon 10-Dec-12 21:55:57

I had a similar problem with my DS last year. I took him to the library. People working in our local library are amazing. They would talk to him about the books he had read or was going to read and that gave him a lot of confidence. I also started working with him in maths. He is now in Y2, top tables and what is more important, happy and confident.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 21:58:05

Our library is superb and they have an early years education specialist on the staff.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 21:58:16

Why not set them appropriate work in their own class?

In my last Y2 class I had a group of children working at Y4 levels in maths ...

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 22:01:56

mrz, surely that's indicative of the class teacher's confidence in her ability to handle materials belonging to either a higher or a lower class. Presumably some teachers don't feel able or confident at doing this.

By the way, whoever sent a Y6 pupil to study phonics with a Y1 class should be shot.

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