Westminster state schools

[LittleTurtle]

Just wanted to hear other mom's opinions on the following schools, in terms of education and social. Also wanted to know to which schools do the kids in them go after (where it feeds) and what is your opinion on them. New to the whole school and kids issues in London. Apoligies if it's been already asked, please do send me a link.

Hampden Gurney CoE
St Vincents RC
St Georges Hanover Square
St Marys Bryanston Square

Are there any other worthy schools, I left out in the vicinity? Not meaning to just name and shame, but I would really like to know.
Does it matter greatly which school for primary? Or will they all jsut end up at the same place anyway?

[Melliphant]

I've been in the area for a while, so have some knowledge of the schools without having connections to any of them.

Hampden Gurney is of course the most highly sought after (at least for non-Catholics) but personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. They get 100% in the KS2 SATs year in, year out, but what does that actually mean? It's more an issue of pride for the school than a statistic that benefits any individual child. Imagine being the child in the class who's most likely to spoil the record - you can bet they'll be put off education for life by the pressure. As for the bright ones, well they can safely be ignored.

They usually release a list of destinations of leavers (with plenty of spin), but that doesn't seem to be on their website yet this year. They get some into good secondary schools, but generally that involves a lot of extra coaching outside school. Remember when comparing schools that the parents at HG are increasingly high achieving high earners. Socially - if you're pushy and rich, you'll have nothing to worry about.

St George's Hanover Square and St Mary's Bryanston Square are both good and seemingly happy schools. Obviously their intakes are much more mixed and their results reflect that. Don't be put off by an Ofsted "good" rather than "excellent", it might just mean that the school hasn't bent over backwards to impress the Ofsted inspectors. For a truly excellent school it'll just be business as usual when the inspectors are there - there aren't many of those about! Socially - if you're pushy and rich and don't like diversity, you won't like them!

St Vincent's I have little knowledge of, but it will benefit from having decent secondary schools for the next stage. For boys leaving CE schools in Westminster there's really nothing in the state sector (and by 11 there'll be a lot of extra coaching involved to get them into a good private school). For girls there's the excellent Greycoats and the less impressive St Marylebone - and both will take pupils from all the schools, not just HG. Strong commitment to your church is more important, they're not academically selective.

It's a minefield. All the above is of course my own opinion and others will undoubtedly have other opinions.

[treefumaster]

Just to put a counter opinion on Hampden Gurney - my children are there and it's a lovely school. They are young so not at SATS stage yet but both being very nurtured. I think it's lovely. Admission is literally nothing to do with wealth or pushiness. It's entirely to do with church attendance. There is no other way round it. As for diversity, I think it's as mixed as you are going to get in a very highly sought after faith school. Everyone there is from a christian background, more or less, but in terms of ethnicity it's pretty mixed (very mixed compared to my suburban primary school). My child is in the very small minority in her class as white and English. I think St George's has a pretty similar mix from what I've seen of it.

I had a bit of experience at St Mary's but was not too happy with the nursery. Not at all loving, whereas at HG they are very cuddly with the nursery children. I think the rest of St Mary's is good but not the nursery bit.

I rather like the atmosphere at St George's but I think the headmaster must be due to move on shortly so not sure where it's going.

The other school I looked at before we moved a bit too far away from it to be realistic was Soho Parish School which I thought was lovely and I would have been happy with it had we not moved too far away.

I really don't know about feeder schools. Not at that stage yet.

[Melliphant]

Hello treefumaster - glad your children are happy at Hampden Gurney. By all accounts there are some excellent teachers there and I'm not for a second saying that it's not a good school. To improve as much as it has done is a fabulous achievement. I just think that its pursuit of awards and league table glory has had a corrosive effect on other schools in the area. Look at the roll call of "awards" on the front of its website - they must spend so much time filling in bits of paper to win these, you'd think they'd have better priorities.

Yes, on paper, admission is based on church attendance (rather than faith, but of course it's hard to distinguish). Frankly, I'd prefer a school where the parents are honest non-believers than one where most have just done what has to be done for a couple of years. Those years are when children should be starting to learn about honest behaviour - the message that some of the children starting HG are getting is that you get what you want by lying.

I've heard good things about Soho too from parents there.

[treefumaster]

I do share your reservations about the faith aspect to be honest. But St George's is basically the same. The ones that seemed to have free-er entry despite ostensible faith school status are St Mary's and Soho. The one with almost no faith requirements is All Souls and that's because it's not doing as well. It's all a bit of a chicken and egg.

All I would say is, if you are lying to get into HG, you will soon regret it. The faith aspect is taken very seriously in the school with a weekly mass for even the youngest children and some quite deep doctrinal teaching from the very start. So the Christian ethos is very real in the school - if you were lying to get in you'd have to live with the outcome of children who are given quite a strong Christian education on a daily basis.

[skifalloverrepeat]

I have one DD there and another DD who is now in secondary. I entirely agree with melliphant - it's a factory. The headteacher fudges stats (for example attendance) so her precious records are kept intact. She even hushed up what amounted to an assault because it involved a family member, who is herself widely disliked. She massages intake (huge uproar last year because she screwed it up), effectibely interviewing parents at nursery stage so that she gets those who are aligned to her thinking, and families queue up at the right church (Annunciation) to get their DCs in. 75 families with kids at nursery age are currently signed up there, compared with practically none a few years back. The governors are ineffectual, the parents grin and bear it; the question is, are the rest any better?

[Melliphant]

Well - what's happened to HG's beloved SATs results this year then? Did the dog eat them? Did they lose them behind the sofa? Or were they just so good that Mrs Chua was overcome with humility and had to hide them from the world?

Perhaps Mrs Chua couldn't make it to school on exam day, I hear that her presence can be inspirational to the pupils.

Perhaps the buggy parking crisis at the Annunciation is now causing weekly tailbacks at Marble Arch, and the Met Police insisted that the school should try and keep a lower profile, lest full London gridlock follow?

We'll probably never know.

[Tistheseasontobedramatic]

Blimey. I have an older DD and she is very happy. Doing exceptionally well, very confident and looks forward to school and Mrs Chuas lessons. Please don't completely discount it, some of us are really happy there.

[Melliphant]

Tistheseasontobedramatic, glad your daughter's happy there. Have they explained to her what happened to their 2013 SATs results, or how they used to "achieve" 100% year in, year out? Have they tied this in to their Christian ethos?

I guess not.

[kittermum]

I am surprised that HG is getting such bad reviews here... My children go to the neighbouring St Vincent's and I would just love for them to transfer to HG. St Vincent's is an amazing school: wonderful staff, great family feel, really a nurturing atmosphere and good academics but they could do so much more with the children. It's frustrating and I have now transferred one of my children elsewhere ! If you look at St Vincent's and HG leavers destinations, you can see that HG children have the opportunity to go wherever they like.
Local Westminster schools are reviewed here

[Melliphant]

"wonderful staff, great family feel, really a nurturing atmosphere and good academics" - sounds like they've got everything covered pretty well then! They also get good SATs results without fudging them. If St Vincent's is amazing, why on earth would you want them to go somewhere else?

The leavers' destinations for HG may be relatively good because of tutoring as much as anything the school does. The girls may go "wherever they like", but the boys don't get much choice, as the best state secondary schools anywhere near are Catholic (until the free school gets up and running).

[kittermum]

weelllll, most children at St Vincent's get tutored from Year 5 in preparation of potential 11+ exams.
Completely agree that there are not enough secondary schools in Westminster, hopefully that will change with the new free school that should open soon (next sept??)

[okidoki7]

Thought I'd chime in as someone who's DC went to the Nursery Class at Hampden Gurney and is now at St. George's Hanover Square - we're so happy we made the move!

HG has a consistently high turn-over in staff and we know a number of parents who pulled their children out as they were suffering from the performance pressure and/or the disciplinary style. Many good things to say for it too of course, but you need to know your child will thrive in this atmosphere.

St. George's not only has a lovely warm and supportive culture, but also has a new Headmistress after the Headmaster of 40+ years retired. It's a solid good school, with more attention on the individual child than pure academic performance stats, and a fresh new wind behind it with a new Sr. Management team & many new Governors.

[lionessma]

Hi okidoki my dc will be starting at st George's this September. How has the new head settled? Any more feedback on the school would much appreciated. I'm a little nervous as my dc is august born. How did reception to for you and school??

[okidoki7]

No need to be nervous, the Reception teacher is absolutely lovely, and children are given a really warm and playful environment to settle into the school routine.

It's always noticeable during the first few months which children have attended a nursery school, and they understand the rhythms of learning and play and are used to the idea of going every day. Those leaving home everyday for the first time have a rougher time at first, but the teachers help them beautifully.

Make sure you take advantage of getting to know the Mum's at drop off time, as all Reception parents are allowed to stay in the play ground until the bell rings to line up and start the day.

Age differences of months still stand out at this age, and your child won't be alone in that. Teachers are used to taking into account those genuinely different developmental stages.

There is a lot to do for a new Head in the first year, and all schools are having to change their assessment methods,, plus it's a big change for the parents of older children who knew the previous headmaster for many years. But I'd say it's all going very well so far, with lots of visible improvements.

[lionessma]

Thanks so much for replying. It's nice to get some insight from a current parent. I think my dd will be okay as she has been at a school nursery since September. It seems the school also have a good induction process too and I will be going with dd next week to meet the head. I'm quite excited as I went to at Georges and a have such great memories of my time there. Mr Lothian was fantastic and was sad to hear of his passing. I think we will also go to the mount street gardens fair in the summer. Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.

[OsmiumPhazer]

My DC used to attend HG, I don't know about anyone else but I think it is a great school.

[Sarahjs71]

Hope all is going well - My son loves it at SGHS & his brother will join in September this year I would love to know what it was like when you were a pupil. Malcolm Lothian ( I knew from church) was a gentleman.

[Sarahalawi123]

Hi all,

My Son got a place at St Gorges Hanover square and will start this September any up to date feed back will be highly appreciated.
If anyone 's child is currently in the school and could advise me wheather or not prefer this school.
We can also afford to send my son to private and already registered but we got offered from St Gorges and I am not too sure if I will make the right choice for him wheather to send him to St Gorges or private.
Any openion would be great help for us.
Please help.
Many thanks

[Sarahjs71]

I have a son in year 1 who loves St G's and his little brother has just been accepted for September -we are thrilled . We attend St George's Church (because we like it and I help with Sunday school) even though we live out in New Malden, Surrey (with loads of available independent schools for us)- so the daily travel for us is pretty full on but feel it is absolutely worth it. St G's has a great dynamic, ethos, superb teaching and amazing opportunities for enrichment. It also does have an independent feel to it with its traditions maintained whilst forward looking too. If you do accept the place and look forward to meeting you in September. Happy to help if you have further queries.