Steiner Schools?

[Moomalicious]

Does anyone have any experience with Steiner Waldorf kindergartens? My son is hating his preschool and I think this might be a better option for him but I'm an Atheist and am worried that may prejudice us.

[sasquatch]

I do. I dont follow any religion.
My son has been educated in Steiner system throughout. But I am too tired at the moment to chat. Glad to tomorrow.
Do you mean that your Atheism may prejudice you against trying the KG?

[stripeymama]

I am atheist and dd (4) is at Steiner KG - we both love it.

If you are not happy with state system it well worth a try, but if you just don't like that one pre-school then not so sure.
It does require a certain amount of commitment from the parents, ie they don't go full-time until at least 7, the schools discourage tv watching etc etc. You get a completely different way of educating, and to my mind its far better than the state system.
Less pressure on kids to do things before they're ready cannot be a bad thing!

[stripeymama]

Should have said that IMO (I was partly Steiner educated) the religious aspect is not that big a deal - its more spiritual and nature-based and about reverence for the earth/seasons and so on.

[Moomalicious]

Thanks everyone. I was mainly concnerned that we might not be offered a place for my son as my dh and I are atheists. I believe that it is my son's decision if he wishes to choose a religion though so he is being brought up learning from the point of view of nature and the world around us and as and when questions about religion come up I answer them without prejudice.

As for not just being happy with the particular preschool my son is in, it goes deeper than that for me. I feel the environment is too pressurised and children should be allowed to be and grow into themselves at such a young age and that the state system does not do this.

I'll certainly look at that link. Thank you again!

[Moomalicious]

Thanks again for that link, I've had a good read through and noted that it was an American site mainly campaigning about keeping their schools secular, as is the law there. Nothing against any American's of course but they do seem to get their knickers in a twist!

Although it was all very interesting I'm really interested to hear why you decided to withdraw your child from Steiner education and at what age they started.

Sasquatch and stripymama, I'd love to hear your comments about what you like about the Steiner system and whether you think the teachers are likely to chuck us out if I let my son watch Numberjacks when he gets home from kg?!

[slim22]

be carefull what you wish for.
I went to steiner primary years in switzerland and that was fine because of the way of life, very in touch with nature, blah blah blah. All very little house in the prairie.
I personnally have very fond memories of my school.
However I'm glad switched to "normal" curriculum for secondary, I probably woul have rebelled against it anyway in teenage years. I mean, how much good do we really do by sheltering children so much.

It's really lovely if you are going to embrace it yourself. I could not wih my DS.
I had a steiner centre 100m from my house so I naturally took DS there for toddler groups.
I was utterly repelled by the athmosphere. I mean coming up to christmas and easter, the mothers got in such a state at the idea that their kids were going to mix with other family members who would tempt their poor souls with real chocolate and plastic toys!
I just found the whole thing very fake and snobbish.

Also it depends on the nature of your child. A lot of kids, whose parents are not 100% in "it" just lack challenges because they are left to their own devices.
A friend in Norway saw her happy boisterous 8 year old turn into a lethargic nothing because he lacked stimulation.

All I'm saying is it's not for everybody.

Do your research.If it is in tune with your ethos and way of life fine.

[barking]

Hi Moomalicious - We withdrew ds1 for lots of reasons that were building up, but the last straw was when my son was playing on bridge and totally unprovoked was pushed backwards violently off a playbridge. The child that pushed him did nothing, the parents did nothing and the teacher did nothing - everyone sat in silence sewing their gnome welly holders while I cradled my distraught son.

I found this act of ignoring to be more violent than the act itself. I was later told it was his karma. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Another thought is HumanScaleEducation if you are looking into other areas of alternative education. There are a couple of really good ones in my area.

Slim22 - lol at Xmas and Easter dilemma, I was one of those mummies once! Part of me still is if I'm honest, it all comes back to this quest of trying to do ones best for your child.

I still live very close to the school which I find very hard as there are lots of new evangelical familes moving in to the street, one neighbour had just made homemade buns and her daugher went outside and kindly offered one to a a little girl who had recently moved in. The father ran out and told his daughter they were poison because they had sugar in them - they were organic but it wasn't enough!

Your Norwegian friend was probably told his lethargy was a sign he was becoming more spiritual, I can remember the notion that quietness equated with goodness.

[barking]

Re: telly watching, the school we were involved with wanted to know if you let your child listen to the radio! Another teacher said she could tell if a child had ever watched tv as it came out in his/her drawings aswell as play so there was a real pressure to keep everything pure - though some schools are more extreme than others.

I don't want you to think I am anti-Steiner as there are some wonderful parts to it, I just wish they would be more upfront about the other stuff to do with anthroposophy.

I still have friends that have gone to Steiner schools who are lovely, but I suspect they would be lovely no matter which school they went to. I made the brief mistake of giving over all our power to the place, I was a new mum who wanted a guide to parenting and wanted everything to be perfect.

[busybusymummy]

What about the Montessori system - DD is at a Montessori nursery, I love it - and am gutted we don't have a primary Montessori school near us.

[northernrefugee39]

Hi- I agree with Barking- please look at the PLANS website before making any leap into Steiner education.
Their whole curriculum is based on re-incarnation and a kind of spiritual science- almost a religion/cult, called anthroposophy. They are very secretive about it and reluctant to talk openly. All schools vary obviously, but do research as once you're in the system it's quite hard- tho' not immpossible to transfer.
They have been watched as a cult - and linked to scientology.
I know quite alot as we have had three children at a school for more than threee years having been disallusioned with mainstream.
PS - if you're an atheist- we also lean that way- Steiner is actually a reliogious setting- morning verses etc are really prayers.
I would go for Montessori every time- one of mine was at one and I couldn't falt it.

[northernrefugee39]

Just seen you've already seen the plans thing- it's not just like that in the States!- The Steiner School where my kids were sounds similar to the one Barking lives near- in that it's a whole community. If the one you're considering is just a kindy and not connected to a school and community it might be a more open one.
The commitment is considerable even if you do embrace anthroposophy- and beleive me- all Steiner Schools main purpose is to prepare children for reincarnation ready for the world's transition to the next epoch.
They beleive all humans have the ability to communicate with the spiritual world, and believe that angels and gnomes actually exist, that Ahriman- a force of evil like the devil communicates through computers, tv,radio etc.
Their art work is all washes and watery colours and completely uncreative and copied- there are lots of rules concerning no black crayons and no pointed crayons- everything has to evoke a kind of spiritual world.
Anthroposophy also has some very dubious ideas about the Aryan race. To be honest I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

[CoteDAzur]

I have already applied to local Waldorf Steiner school for dd next year (she will be 3) and now am kicking myself for not having researched it better.

Dh and I are not religious people, and I am mortified now to read about Steiner schools' emphasis on reincarnation, 'spirit world', 'soul work', devil in electronic devices, no black color, etc. There was no mention of any of this in their promotional materials nor in the hour-long meeting I had with the teacher of the reception class.

Is there anyone here who will say today's Steiner schools are beyond all this and have taken up only the gentle art-based pedagogy and left behind the cultish aspects?

[lailasmum]

CoteDAzur i wouldn't feel annoyed or anything, I applied for a place at a steiner kindergarten for my now 3 1/2 year old and it wasn't until we got right up to nearly accepting that place that I learnt the other side of it. I think on the surface it sounds great and is what most parents want for their kids but it there are hidden depths that are worrying and not as they seem. Just take your new found knowledge and use it to find something more suitable.

[CoteDAzur]

Of course I am annoyed at the way I have been played. Those sing-song voiced dishonest women played me for a fool.

Steiner schools hold no language benefits for dd, who is already trilingual at 2 yrs.

When I asked about reading, they said they don't force it but teach it when children are ready and asking to learn. That is quite different than saying "We are against kids learning to read before the age of 7", isn't it?

[northernrefugee39]

Anthroposophy beleivers don't teach children to read until the children's milk teeth come in- they don't think they're spiritually ready until then- their milk teeth are formed by the mother's spiritual forces- and their own teeth come from the childs own forces built up from the spiritual world. Age seven is a spiritual turning point for the child apparently- marked by this teeth thing.
Anyway- my youngest daughter was at Steiner 'til she was 7- learnt to read in two weeks flat- she was gagging for it- milk teeth or not- and has now more or less caught up with the 8 year olds at her primary- with her writing too. You hear this story again and again- of course the Steiner people say it's all because of the Steiner start!
I think it varies hugely from child to child- my eldest was at primary before she went to Steiner- and she would have benefited from more play and less pushing the phonics at 4 years old. Steiner did her alot of harm tho'- and we moved her too late. IT'S NEVER EASY making these choices is it?

[CoteDAzur]

It's actually quite EASY for me to run very far away from any school that bases its education on 'reincarnation', 'spiritual world', gnomes, etc. What winds me up is how dishonest they are about all this. If any of the above words were ever mentioned to me, even if they told me color black was not allowed in drawings, I would be out of there within seconds.

I am at how they can get away with this in France, with its fiercely secular education system & institutions...

[northernrefugee39]

Cote- I couldn't agree more- but you've been sensible enough to find out about it. I feel so guilty because it only dawned very slowly on us what was going on - and they are very clever at being secretive/evasive/ or saying things like - re incarnation only really means that the child has a past and a future- bollocks it does!
They very rarely answered a question straight- we had endless meetings-the sort of meetings where you realise that you're doing most of the talking and not getting any answers. And of course the further in you are the harder it is to move your kids- apart from fitting back into mainstream curriculum- difficult but not impossible- the thought of the children leaving friends and staring somewhere new etc etc.
I think the Steiners rely on all this and hope you'll be drawn in and ride it through.

[northernrefugee39]

Cote- I just re-read your thread- are you in france then?

[DaisyMoo]

I'm finding this very interesting as a close friend has just enrolled her children in a Steiner school after home educating. The children do seem much happier, but they are absolutely impoverishing themselves to send them all there and I know their dad is a complete atheist I wonder if he knows the religious background to it all and how he'll feel if/when he finds out.

[northernrefugee39]

I can't believe people on this thread earlier saying Steiner schools aren't religious? Do they sing all the St. Michael songs? Do they celebrate the advent spiral? Denying that the central beliefs of Anthropsophy - reincarnation, spirit world, souls etc etc, are not religious is just plain daft. Steiner's anthroposophy does admittedly blur religion, science and history-(with the occult too)-the Zorastrian gods of light and darkness, Hindu beliefs such as karma and re incarnation,and his own interpretation of the bible- where Christ is a sun god- who helps humans balance the forces of Lucifer and Ahriman.
But to say it's not religious- and a science - is bonkers. Or just shows most people who send their kids to Steiner schools have no idea what it's all about.And that keeps the anthros happy anyway.

[barking]

CoteDAzure - A narrow escape! Wish I had had the web before I embarked on our little steiner journey - though they don't encourage any media as it pollutes the mind/keeps one ignorant depending on who's side you're on.

A neighbours child has recently moved from steiner to state school as her mum told me 'she wanted an education'.

Another example would be the more wild/naughty children would be called 'spirited' or 'indigo children' (there are books/websites on this) - they argue that certain children are born with a more defiant/powerful/mystical personality than other mortals as they are needed for the challanges of the modern world.

Hi Northernrefugee39 I remember you from another thread, how are you?

I'm off to have an indigo moment........

[northernrefugee39]

Nice to see you back barking- I'm full on working at the mo' and children have had this sick/cough thing- I think it's something to do with a re incarnation difficulty...anyway- I just put a Steiner in the works whenever I can (wink ) love to say my bit- I'm so cross with it all it's nice to get it out...

[northernrefugee39]

How do you make that picture of a winking face?!!!! I just got wink in brackets- what a winker I am....
Please someone tell me how to do it or everyone will know what a novice I am on MN