Please help me work out the 15 hours entitlement!

[Bananaketchup]

Hi all,

sorry if this has been done to death re 3/4 year old nursery funding, but I can't find the info I need anywhere, I am quite a new parent and am completely confused. My DS was 2 in November and as he is adopted, is entitled to the funded 15 hours at 2 years old. It's only now I think he is ready to start this though as he's only been home 8 months. He is going to be starting (building up slowly from next week onwards) what will by the time I go back to work two 8 hour days with a childminder (year round), who accepts the 2 year old funding. From September he will also have 10 hours a week at preschool (which is term time only).

The childminder has been frank that the rate paid for the funded hours doesn't cover her normal fees, so I have happily agreed that from September I will use 10 hours of the funded hours at the preschool and the rest with her, so I pay her the rest of her hours at her normal rate and she doesn't lose out so much by taking DS over a fully fee paying child. What I can't work out is how to work this out. I know he is entitled to up to 570 hours a year in total, but when does a year run from and to - from when he was entitled, a calendar year, an academic year, or what? Because that will make a difference when I work out what his entitlement with her is, firstly using all 15 hours until September, and thereafter using the leftover hours not used at the preschool, but spread over the year rather than termtime only.

If anyone can make sense of what I'm trying to say and can help me out I'd be more than grateful, TIA.

[BobTheFly]

It doesn't work like that. A total of 15 hours can be claimed for him In one week so you can't 'bank' them and use the leftover hours.

[tshirtsuntan]

I'm not 100% but as far as I know the three year old entitlement to 15 hours (the same as 2 yr?) is from the school term after their birthday, ie if birthday is March spring term, if November, term starting New year and is for 39 weeks out of 52 (school term Times).

[BobTheFly]

It's described as 570 hours a year because you can choose (usually the provider chooses) to claim 15 hours TTO or 11 hours all year round.

[Bananaketchup]

Oh no, I'm not trying to bank them - just use all what would be 15 hours termtime (but divide it year round) in one place until September, then in September use 10 hours a week termtime in one setting, and the other what would be 5 hours a week term time, but divide them year round, in the other. But because I don't know when a year starts/ends, I can't work out what 15 hours a week term time works out to be year round, but only between now and September. If you see what I mean. I've been told the hours can be used over more than one setting, but I can't find the info I need to do the maths to do that when one setting is term time and one isn't, and he's starting one now and the other in September. Urgh I'm confusing myself and I'm sure it doesn't make sense to read, sorry.

[BobTheFly]

It's 11 hours.

[BobTheFly]

The funding isn't paid over a year but claimed termly by the provider. So the year doesn't really have a start or end day but there are audit days that you have to declare attendance and hours to the LA. (Not you the parent but you the provider)

[Bananaketchup]

Okay so sorry to be dim, for now I do it as 11 hours all at the childminder then from September divide all the hours term time only and vary what I pay the childminder? have it as 5 hours a week there in term time and none in school holidays? I think I made it a lot more complicated than it is then! Thanks all.

[BobTheFly]

You can spilt it between two settings but I think they need to be over the same regs. Ie choose either 15 hours TTO (and pay hols) or 11 over the whole year. I don't think you can mix and match.

[Bananaketchup]

Oh so I can't have it year round now and change to term time in September? I'm screwing myself starting him at the childminder now then, he'll get funding til July while settling in and I'll be paying the full whack over the summer holidays when the hours he goes have built up. Bugger.

[BobTheFly]

No you can but i mean don't mix and match when he's at two settings. Ie preschool hours over term time and cm hours over whole year simultaneously.

I'm not entirely sure I understand anymore.....

[Bananaketchup]

Sorry, it's too confusing. What I want to do is take it as 11 hours a week at the CM now, and then in September take it as 15 hours a week term time only, over 2 settings. Because I don't want to have to choose term time only now, and get no funding over the 6 week summer holiday when he'll still be going to the CM. If I can do that's it's all fine. Sorry it's so convoluted, thanks for your help.

[BobTheFly]

Here, in my borough, you could do that. What I would do is get your cm to call her development worker or the funding advisor if they have one, to double check but that sounds regular to me. Some LAs have funny rules though!

Ps your last post was much easier to understand than the OP haha.

[Cindy34]

I am not sure you get any choice how it is taken, in terms of being over a year or over term time only. Does your local authority publish any guidance for providers which says they can choose for each child how the funding is done? The provider may get a choice as to how it is done but wouldn't it need to be the same way for all the children?

Can you CM accept the funding, are they participating in it?

[BobTheFly]

The provider is the one that chooses how they offer it (and I'm presuming the OP has checked they are happy to do it how she wants it) and the OP says the cm accepts funding.

[Bananaketchup]

Okay I'll go into it more with the CM next week. She takes funded 2 for the local children's centre, so I think will know what the LA allows. Sorry for the obscure explanations, I've been overthinking it all! Thanks for your help.

[Cindy34]

Really should read the OP fully... So the CM can accept the funding but you want it over a year not term time?

The term time dates are set by the local authority, there are specific headcount days which determine how much funding the provider gets paid for that term.

I don't think you should be working out anything. Leave it up to the CM to sort out with the local authority. I suspect it will be easiest if the funding is taken by both providers for the same date periods.

[Cindy34]

LAs have funny rules - yep, agree with that. It seems to vary from LA to LA, so obtaining their 'rules' is probably useful - some put provider guides on their website.

[insancerre]

Where I am, Lancashire, the hours per term are
Autumn 210 (14 weeks)
Spring 165 (11 weeks)
Summer 195 (13 weeks) which gives a total of 570

I would just add that it is up to each individual provider how they offer the hours, and not the parents.

In our setting we have set times that the free hours are available for termtime children
For all year round children they get a deduction on their monthly bill

[insancerre]

Where I am, Lancashire, the hours per term are
Autumn 210 (14 weeks)
Spring 165 (11 weeks)
Summer 195 (13 weeks) which gives a total of 570

I would just add that it is up to each individual provider how they offer the hours, and not the parents.

In our setting we have set times that the free hours are available for termtime children
For all year round children they get a deduction on their monthly bill

[Littlefish]

In my local authority the parent cannot choose how many hours (of the 15) they allocate to different settings. If a child attends two settings, the funding is allocated according to a county formula and then invoices are issued from the two providers if the amount they are given by the local authority does not cover the number of hours the child attends.

[Bananaketchup]

DS now has chicken pox, so can't start at CM as planned, so it will all have to be ironed out once I can meet with her when he's not infectious. Thanks for replies, you are so much more helpful than any official source of info I could find!

[HSMMaCM]

I have children that do some hours with me and some hours at nursery. We all do term time only though (12 weeks this term), so it is more expensive in the holidays. Some of my parents pay by standing order, so it evens out over the year.

[mygrandchildrenrock]

We are only open term time only (for 2-4 yr olds) but some childminders or settings do a 'stretched offer' whereby children attend for less than 15 hrs but for more than 38 weeks a year. They don't 'stretch' over the whole summer holidays though, it's only a few extra weeks.
We wouldn't accept a child who wanted to split their settings though, as we need the full 15 hrs funding. If a child only wanted to do 10 hrs with us, I'd struggle to find another child who just wanted 5 hrs.