Nursery concerns or paranoid?

[Francoisthegreat]

Hi I'm new here and wondered if anyone could give me some advice...My son will be 3 next week and has recently started at a local nursery for a couple of hours 3 mornings a week.

This nursery wasn't my first choice (we have him down at a school nursery but he cannot start until he stops having accidents!). Overall it seemed nice, the staff were very sweet with the children and my son has gone off quite happily.

My only concern was that when I collected him the other day he was running around on gravel with his laces undone. Sounds really petty but it isn't something I would let him do! There is a young girl there (I had my son young so am not ageist) who I felt was slightly impatient with him. She seemed more than happy that he was charging around on stones with his shoes hanging off his feet.

Do you think this is ok? I am not sure if I am simply being paranoid and over protective but shoelaces being tied seems like common sense to me so I am now worrying what else they might not see as a big deal.

Any advice would be great!

[Busymumto3dc]

Are you sure she was aware they were not tied?

In my experience until they can tie shoe laces children should really wear shoes with laces

A lot of schools and nurseries will advise this. Has he no slip on or Velcro shoes?

[Sirzy]

what busy mum said. Lace up shoes really aren't suitable for nursery.

As a side note the other nursery are not allowed to refuse admission based upon whether a child is toilet trained or not.

[Francoisthegreat]

Yes she was definitely aware. There were actually 2 members of staff outside with him at the time. Had he been indoors I probably wouldn't have been too concerned it was more the running on gravel!

They haven't said no laces, they have always been fine for me so long as they are properly tied. That said, he will be going in velcro today.

[Sirzy]

How do you know they were aware? I very much doubt they were looking at his feet every few minutes to ensure the laces hadn't come undone

[Busymumto3dc]

Laces have always been fine when he's with you, do you have as many children in your care as they do?

Imagine if all of those children had laces coming undone!

Children having uneven surfaces to play on is also part of the EYFS iirc

[Francoisthegreat]

Hi Sirzy, it's a prep school nursery so I think the rules are slightly different? Could be wrong, this is all new to me. They only take children from 2yr 9 months and that seems to be their policy, I will look into it.

[Francoisthegreat]

Sorry feeling slightly attacked here! I am aware because I called them. They told me they knew. They did not apologise nor make it clear that it was velcro only. The other nursery is very clear about velcro shoes I now know the reason why. I also do not have an issue with gravel! We have it at home.

[Busymumto3dc]

I just think as a parent of two dc who cannot tie laces (5&6 years) I don't send them anywhere without me in shoes that require re-tieing

The nursery staff have better things to do than keep doing your dcs shoes up

[Francoisthegreat]

Fair point. My question wasn't really velcro v laces it was more was it ok that they weren't bothered about doing them up. I just find that a bit weird and in turn was questioning the level of care. I will be sure to invest in velcro. Thank you for your advice.

[Busymumto3dc]

Obviously if there were other instances which made you question the level of care I might be concerned, but this alone I don't thjnk is anything major

[happystory]

Please don't feel got at. The point is even if their policy is Velcro and slip on shoes you didn't know and therefore sent him in his usual shoes. Therefore if they were the only shoes he had they should do up the laces, same as they should do up his coat if he can't yet do it. I wouldn't worry though, and would just send him in non lace up shoes from now on.

[UriGeller]

God, if I saw an adult walking around with an undone lace I'd tell them! Not sure why you're getting this issue turned around onto your parenting Francois.

There isn't an excuse for letting a pre schooler run around with undone laces. Its an accident waiting to happen and if he had gone head over heels and the staff had written it up, the fact his laces were undone would've been the fault of the staff for not making sure they were tied. There might also be a suggestion that in future, he wears Velcro which you could take on board but its the staffs responsibility that he is safe while he's in their care.

[DotToDott]

You rang them about this and they said they knew his laces were undone but didn't bother to tie them?


I don't think that's acceptable really, and i wouldn't be happy with that response.

I would understand if they simply hadn't noticed- watching 30 children running around is a tough task, but for them to notice and just disregard his safety, i agree with you it's a bit off.


Were they apologetic at all?

That said, velcro shoes are definitely better, they wont come undone and it's a good first step in teaching them
to put shoes on/get dressed independently.

[Francoisthegreat]

Thank you Uri and Happy, I was starting to think mumsnet was a bit of a scary place! Completely agree with you both, that was my original point. Thank you for your replies

[Littlefish]

Francois. A nursery cannot refuse to take children because they are still having "accidents". I presume you mean that he is not yet securely toilet trained. I would suggest you go back to the other nursery and press them on this point as you are clearly unhappy with his current one.

As others have said though, he soundn't be wearing lace up shoes at nursery unless he can do them up himself.

[Francoisthegreat]

Little is this true of the private school sector? I have to say I am slightly confused as this is the policy they have; they are keen for him to start but he will not poo on the loo. Thankfully he is no longer doing it in his trousers!

And yes I now realise laces are a no no at nursery, but it was his 2nd settling in session and he wore laces to the first one and no suggestions were made that it was inappropriate, I honestly had no idea.

Really appreciate all advice, if anyone knows whether I can push the prep school nursery to take him now and what I should reference in furthering my point I would be very grateful.

[Littlefish]

I'm not sure about the private sector Francois. Will you be using the 15 hour funding? If you are, or are planning to, I would suggest phoning the Local Authority early years funding team to discuss it with them. They are the ones who control the 3 and 4 year old funding.

[CharlesRyder]

I could not start my DS at his nursery attached to an independent school until he was securely toilet trained- and a whole host of other things!! He had to go for a two hour session on a Saturday to assess his 'readiness'. The first time I sent him for an assessment (just before his 3rd birthday) they wouldn't take him because he spilled some water on himself and had been unable to change his own t-shirt without support!!

They can definitely set their own rules!!

[jasminelavender]

Hi there. I am a Deputy of a Nursery and so I thought I would give you my view on this as a Practitioner.
If the NP knew the laces were undone then clearly it was in their duty of care to do them up. I am puzzled as to why if you knew at the time you didn't ask or mention it to a senior member of the team. Things like this are best dealt with when they happen.
Often younger staff do need to be reminded of the 'common sense' things that sadly come naturally to a parent! This isn't an excuse by the way, but just something I have come across with youngsters fresh from college!
I would like to mention though re shoes. Crocs, open-toed sandals and lace ups are all 'banned' from our Nursery. Not for the staffs comfort but the children! We had more accidents and incidents with children tripping in crocs and dropping toys on toes that we insist on trainers or wellies (we have a lot of mud!!) As for laces, well, one of the most important skills you are giving your child when he comes to Nursery/preschool is Independence! Clearly doing up laces on his own not going to happen at 3 so easy shoes (trainers/wellies) are a must so he can do it himself.
Finally a Nurseries and preschools worth their salt want a good relationship with parents, not just the children. Keep the line of communication open and keep talking if you arent happy! We aren't mind readers!

[JennyBlueWren]

As a nursery teacher it is interesting to hear the rules set by private school nurseries. This week I have been meeting the families joining us after the summer and I have been asking them about toileting and independence. We cannot refuse children on this basis but I do encourage parents to toilet train, dress their child in easy clothes (tracksuit trousers) and teach their child how to ask for help if they need it.

However we do understand that children will have accidents for many reasons but especially when they enter a new and exciting/scary setting where they are too busy playing or afraid to go to the toilet.

Teach your child to ask someone to tie their laces when they come undone. We tie them if we see them but we tie a lot more if the child says!