Gender Disapointment

[Mum2b43]

I will try to keep this as short as possible.

I am 16 weeks with my 3rd, its a surprise pregnancy. I have 2 boys already and was very happy with my 2. I was disappointed with falling pg but have since come around and am acturally happy and excited.... well I was...

I had an early gender scan yeaterday and found out we are having a girl, I am heartbroken. I so wanted a third boy, I even had already chosen the perfect name and had made future plans in my head about how perfect my family of 3 boys would be. Now I feel like its been torn away.

People dont get it... aparently if I have 2 boys already I should be wanting a girl but I dont. I have never wanted a girl. I have lots of reasons for this. I was abused by a family member as a child and know this means that I will be super-over-protective of a girl. It means I have already decided that my daughter can never be trusted with any man other than my DH for not even a second until she is at least 10. (other than situations I cant control like school.)

I am also not a girlie girl.. I hate pink, I dont really get on with women, I have only had male friends and hate shopping. I have been like this since I was a toddler... I used to rip heads off of dolls when given to me. I am not a complete man... I wear make-up and have long hair. I just dont spend hours in the mirror straightening my hair or painting my nails or even wear dresses unless its a special occasion maybe once a year. I can be feminine but I would rather not.

These are the two main reasons but there are a few others.

Anyway, when the sonographer told us it was a girl I felt my world crashing around me. I felt like walking into the pub across the road and downing 10 tequillas because of the shock, obviously I didnt. lol!

I then went to tell my parents, they were babysitting my sons, and their response was to laugh and say I was getting my 'just deserts'. That I was in for hell and that they were going to enjoy watching my life become miserable. My brothers response was to ask me "are you looking forward to becoming a grandmother before my daughter was 10?" and then to go on to say my daughter was going to be a proper essex-slapper.
My DH wasnt much better, he was also hoping for a boy but then went on to tell me that the reason was becuase he was dreading me having a girl because I would always be fighting with her. He was carrying on and on about how I dont get on with women so how would I possible cope with a teenage daughter.

I said nothing to anyone at the time... perhaps I was still in shock. But I woke up this morning fuming. How dare they all??? THey have all basically said "We think you are a good mum to a boy but you are going to be a rubbish mum to a girl."

I had a go at my DH this morning for what he said but he got angry and told me I was being emotional and over-sensitive. He also said I needed to get over having a girl and shouldnt be so upset about it.

I just feel like screaming at them all. I feel like screaming at my DH "Girls hate me... I dont hate girls! And just because I dont get on with women doesnt mean I wont get on with my own daughter!"
I feel like screaming at my parents "I am not getting my just deserts! I may have been a horrible teenager but maybe that was because my terrible parents neglected, starved and abused me as a young child, something my daughter wont experience! Maybe I was a difficult nasty girl because they were crap parents!"
And I feel like screaming at my brother "I dont even live in effin essex, nevermind intend on raising my daughter to become a slapper and pg before the age of 10!"

I am so sad and everyone is telling me what a failure I am going to be, I am starting to think maybe I will be a terrible mother, maybe they see something I dont. My life is doomed... everyone will be watching my eevry move for the next 30 years... just waiting for me to fail, just waiting for my daughter to fail so they can all laugh and say I tod you so.

I dont want to feel this way but I am not sure how I can love a daughter I dont want.

PS. Please dont be mean to me I am already on the edge.

[liesal79]

Sounds like you don't have a very supportive group around you. I'm pretty sure that what you are feeling isn't helped by hormones, however, you have to look at the positives. The likelihood is she will be just like you - after all you made her.
She probably won't be overly girlie as you won't make her that way.
I understand you are feeling all these emotions, but you need to focus on having a healthy baby, not something everyone is able to have.

I myself have had 1mmc and 3 mc in the last year, and am 19 weeks pregnant, and literally panic on a daily basis!

Growing up around 2 older brothers, they will protect her, you will protect her, she will be loved and protected.

It sounds like you have had an awful time, and its only natural you project that onto your child, but you have the power to change the way she is brought up and make sure she doesn't go through the same hell you did.

Good Luck :)

[HazleNutt]

your family sounds vile! Who thinks that those comments were appropriate??

I'm not qualified to comment on the abuse issue, so sorry this happened to you. But as for girly girl - you were not, your daughter may not be either. Not all girls are into pink sparkly shit, especially with 2 older brothers.

Was the opposite for me, I always pictured having girls, so when I wound out that DC was DS, I was disappointed. But I could not imagine him in any other way now - so hopefully you will feel the same about your DD.

[Mmolly2013]

I am actually shocked your family have reacted this way, I'm sorry to hear that. They sound vile.

Firstly, I am having my first child at the moment and throughout my whole life I have never really got on well with women because of the drama associated with them I've always just got on better with men. But when I fell pregnant I wanted a girl, I am over the moon I'm having a girl.

Aim not a girly girl and you little girl will grow up the way you want her to. I will be putting my girl in classes such as judo/karate and perhaps a drama class or so when she old enough. It doesn't mean because I have a girl she will do dancing and want to be a pink fluffy ballerina.

Just to let you know I have older brothers and no sisters and so me and my mum always had a special bond and also as an only girl me and my dad had a special bond, I always done stuff with my brothers and got stuck into their games ie skate boarding etc. Keep the lines of communication open and you and your daughter could have the best relationship to be honest it could be a blessing in disguise you just don't know what to expect which is normal.

Everything happens for a reason. I didn't but all pink baby clothes I bought purples, yellows and many other that aren't pink.

[Bunbaker]

First of all the assumptions you have made about girls aren't necessarily true. I have one DD and she hates pink, isn't at all girly, isn't fond of shopping etc. So you need to get rid of these negative thoughts. Perhaps you don't have female friends because you project this negativity about females and they don't want to know you.

It took me 17 years to conceive our only child, so bear that in mind because I am also going to tell you in the kindest way to get a grip because not everyone can conceive as easily as you. And be prepared for more replies reminding you of this fact.

Your family sound pretty rubbish though. Do you have to keep in contact with them?

[GandTnow]

I think that you will be an ace mum to a girl. It sounds like you had a terrible childhood and therefore will be ready to deal with anything. Also you must remember that you are not having a girl in isolation - she'll have two big brothers to play with and will probably start off liking all their games and toys.

Your family on the other hand sound obnoxious and I'm sorry for you that they don't seem to understand your fears. Take one step at a time and relax. You were unsure about being preg to start with and now this has given you something else to be surprised at. You still have a good long time to work it through before she is born.

Also, I have a DD, I'm not very girly but she is her own person and sometimes loves dressing up and wearing my shoes and sometimes wants to be covered in mud and play in the stream. Boy/girl stuff isn't that distinct anymore I dont think.

[MarshaMallow84]

I feel for you I really do. I have suffered with GD too. In my case I had a son when I desperately wanted a daughter, however, it was for the same reasons as you- I don't get on with men. All I can say is that my son is different to every other man because at the end of the day he is (or was) my baby and gender is pretty irrelevant when they're babies, he's just part of me and I adore him. You said yourself that your daughter will have a different upbringing to you. She will love you and you her. By the time she's an obnoxious teenager you will have a very close relationship. It's hard to see it now but this is one of those rare occasions when I can assure you that things will work out ok.

[Showy]

There are a lot of problems in one post.

Gender disappointment is common and fine. It rarely plays out into real disappointmentwith the child. Don't be ashamed of it. Start planning now for your girl. Name her, buy her an outfit, talk to her. You are having a person, not a girl. Her personality will transcend her genitals. You'll see.

You need to stand up to your family. If they are so awful, avoid them at least for now. That's enough abuse for a lifetime. Don't expose your daughter to it.

I'm afraid the only thing I find offensive is your I don't like women stance. It's massively insulting. Because I don't have a penis, we automatically wouldn't get on? Women are a great homogeneous squirming mass? We all think and feel the same? Spend more time on MN for a start. Women can be strong, brilliant, funny, capable, inspirational, humbling, astounding and absolutely not worth writing off because of their genitals. I suspect what you mean is you don't like yourself and due to past issues, you seek validation from men. I would deal with this. You are missing out. Maybe a girl will start to teach you this. We are people, not walking vaginas.

And the I ddon't like shopping and pink thing is a red herring. So what? Not only is it not a given that a girl likes these things, there are a billion things your dc could like which you don't. Your job isn't to sneer at their interests or to adopt them yourself. It's to accept their interests as their own and nurture them. I don't like rugby for example, but dd is obsessed with it and plays/watches it. It fulfils and inspires her. See also ninja turtles, beast quest, top trumps. Obsessed.

I have a girl. I once would have preferred a boy and know now I was a twit. My girl is a funny, bold, bright, beautiful, courageous, happy individual who loves mud and superheroes, Les Mis and reading. She isn't just a girl. How reductive.

And you are doing your boys a disservice too. This girl will stop you raising them under the illusion that girls are inferior. Please don't give them this message. Teach them better.

[Mum2b43]

Thank you for the kind words ladies.

To the lady who had a go at me for not being grateful. You shouldnt make assumptions. My DH and I are well into our 30s. It took us 6 years to concieve our 1st DS and almost 5 years and fertility treatment to have our 2nd. Hence the reason this baby was a surprise to not just us but the doctors too. Nobody thought we would ever be able to conceive naturally again. I have also had mc and mmc so believe me I know how lucky I am.

I am very happy you have now concieved and good luck with your pg. Congrats!

[squizita]

It sounds like everyone is trying to scare you!! Don't worry - for all you know she will take after you and not be girly in the slightest. And if she's girly, well you'll have to grit your teeth and buy her some things you think are hideous - but she'll be a good, well behaved kid because of your influence.

"I then went to tell my parents, they were babysitting my sons, and their response was to laugh and say I was getting my 'just deserts'. That I was in for hell and that they were going to enjoy watching my life become miserable. My brothers response was to ask me "are you looking forward to becoming a grandmother before my daughter was 10?" and then to go on to say my daughter was going to be a proper essex-slapper."

Horrible! I'm actually pretty disgusted at their cruelty to you and their general low opinions of women and girls. Not every girl is a handful by any means whatsoever (my DH's family have the opposite idea BTW, because he was a naughty boy and his DSis was a naice little girl who went to Grammar School).

Several of my mates are Essex Girls and they all have good jobs, live respectably, some are 'girly girls' and some are tomboys ... and as for getting on with your family, you don't have to be just like your parents to get on with them.
Both my parents are sports mad, active, don't get 'glitter and makeup' at all. I'm totally the other way. Of course we clashed when I was a kid, all kids have tantrums... but never ever about that about the usual things (staying up late etc').

It sounds like everyone has set this up in a really nasty way for you.

Why not chat to some people you know with mixed families of boys and girls? When you hear their lives are normal, it may help you get some perspective without all the mean scarmongering.

[Mum2b43]

Showy... I am sorry. I think in my sadness I might have esagerated the whole I dont like women part. I just struggle with women. I always have. I have got one female friend who is not girly like me, we arent besties but we get on fine. I just am intimidated and scared of women. I was bullied by girls as a child because I didnt like girly things. I was properly bullied right up until I left school and always by girls I guess because I wasnt seen as one of them. I am also incrediable strong willed because of my past so when I was bullied I fought back. I also tell things like it is which alienates alot of women. Maybe I have just been unlucky to have not met any women who like me, I know its probaly my fault because I put up defenses with women and run a mile.

I dont handle bitchiness well and take it personally. Women scare me and make me feel inferior. I have been physically attacked my women in the past so many times for reasons I cant even begin to understand. I think I attract negative women because I am weak and am easy to pick on.

I am aware there are many lovely women out there... I just wish I could tell which ones they were so I could let down my defenses but I cant I have hurt so much. Even all my aunts and female cousins are mean to me, but as you can tell my family arent the nicest people.

Its hard to love women when you have no positive women in your life.

[bugoven]

How unkind of your family =( I think you will do a fantastic job of raising a girl and your disappointment is definitely down to your own childhood experiences. They seem to be hoping you'll fail and putting you down to distract from their own failure to protect and nurture you. When I found out I was having a boy my mum said "I hope he's not a little arsehole like your brother was" (actually he was the family scapegoat and bullied by my parents until I was old enough to see what was happening and be his friend) and my other brother said "he'll probably end up shagging my wife" ( one of my nephews actually did this and is now married to her). I have made a point of being fiercely positive about my son and I am anxious about becoming a mum to a boy from our family but so determined to raise him differently. Good luck X

[Southpaws]

But has it crossed your mind that your daughter may be like you? Not all little girls are interested in pink, shopping, disney princesses. It must be a shock if it isn't what you wanted, but as the mother of a dd it does infuriate me when people are so quick to resort to stereotype. She will just be a little person, the same way that your sons are little people.

[mssleepyhead]

I'm really sorry for what you're feeling and experiencing; at times like this the support of your family is invaluable and it's sad that you're not getting it.

Re. Gender disappointment. I can understand your worries, but remember not all girls are the same. I don't consider myself to be a particularly girly girl, I never have been, and I struggle to form strong friendships with women, finding men much easier to get on with. But I also teach in an all girls school and I have to say young women are awesome. Sure, teenage girls can be complicated, but they're also thoughtful, powerful and strong and so so so exciting to know. My experiences teaching actually made me a little sad to find out I'm having a boy!

With regards to how you will cope: you will be wonderful. You're an experienced mother with lots of understanding of children and how to bring them up. You will be able to give your daughter everything she needs: love, attention, care, and, as you get to know what kind of person she is, you'll be able to give her some of the special things she needs as a girl too - but who knows what they will be! Don't scare yourself about managing her needs yet. I'm sure it will just come naturally as you get to know her.

Finally your family - is there any chance the things they were saying were mean and insensitive jokes? If you opened up about your worries to one of them, would they understand the pain they had caused you? I just wondered...

[seasavage]

This is all disturbing you are no less feminine for not fitting in (even with your own) with some arbitrary notion of what is "girlie". I don't think liking pink is at all relevant. ALL teenagers have the potential to act out. Male and female.
Yes you have some emotional hurdles to overcome.
I think you really need to seek help about your self esteem. As you have a very negative view of all women and that includes you.

It is utterly appalling that the people round you seem to have a ridiculously negative attitude to women. I really hope you can overcome that.

[squizita]

Just one thing to add... a few PP have mentioned girls who don't like stereptypical girly things as a positive possibility.
Girls that do like those 'girly' things are powerful and super too! Society just conditions us to associate it with weakness and lower IQ. Or bitchiness and bullying. Girls are often praised for doing 'boy things' as it's breaking stereotypes ... but boys are put down if they want to play house or whatever. Sadly to me this perpetuates the prejudice.

I'm one of those women who does like OTT make up, clothes, shopping and my mum isn't into that kind of thing . It didn't spoil our relationship at all and I was always raised with good values about treating others, education and working a good job.
So yeah, I have fancy nails and hair, and lots of clothes. That's not all there is to me... I worked my way through a degree and 2 postgrad courses. I sit in the pub (when not pregnant) with a pint of cider and I eat proper big dinners. I worked my way up through a tough career. I read horror and crime novels by choice, not chick-lit. I'm no one's "bimbo" in spite of my glittery nails and lipstick and I would like to think I am not a bitch or a bully (in fact anti-bullying and mental health/wellbeing of teenagers are things I fundraise for and protest for).

So maybe your new little person will gravitate to the dressing up box and fairy stuff. Doesn't mean she's shallow or will be mean.
Maybe she will refuse all the stereotypical things and hate pink.
Maybe - perhaps most likely - she'll be a fascinating individual mixture of the two!

I'm really sorry that some girls and women have bullied you to make you feel that way about what it means to be a woman/girl.
As others have said, we come in all shapes, sizes, clothes and personalities.

[rootypig]

Your family's attitudes to women and girls are VILE.

I have a DD. She is 21mo. She is very funny, has always had a bonkers sense of humour, likes to sing loudly and out of tune, eats like a horse (curry is a favourite), loves balancing on random objects with her arms in the air, dances hilariously (and a bit like MIL ), takes extremely business like calls on the phone...

You get the picture. She is a little personality. Your DD will be a little personality. If she is like the little girls I know she will be tough and sweet, maybe rowdy and definitely funny, clever and mad and a thousand things beside.

Go and talk to someone about your abuse in the context of having a daughter - you don't have to go through this alone. Tell your family to watch their mouths, and tell them to keep watching their mouths every time they pipe up with gendered shite that will batter your DD's self esteem.

Think of it this way. She is your daughter. You can make it different for her.

Congratulations

[MrsWinnibago]

I was nervous of having girls because I don't get on with most women but my two DDs aren't "most women" they're half me!

[SandorClegane]

I think your main problem is you have internalised lots of negative messages about women that you have received from your unpleasant family when you were growing up. There is nothing biologically determined about liking pink or shopping, it's culturally constructed. You actually have an opportunity to change how you feel about yourself, about women and about your daughter by extension.

This might be an interesting place to start

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_sexism

[SandorClegane]

finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/internalized-sexism/

[Tortoiseturtle]

You've spent many years trying to have children, and have 2 already. You surely must have thought through the possibility that you would have a daughter, and reconciled yourself to that?! I don't get it.
I am totally not girly myself. I have 2 DDs, and they are not very girly either. How you bring them up makes a big difference. If you treat her the same way as your boys, then growing up with 2 brothers and a not girly mother she is highly unlikely to turn out girly. And she won't wear pink clothes and dresses if you don't buy them for her, and won't play with dolls etc if you just give her her brothers' old toys to play with. It's not compulsory you know.
Your family sound awful - I would stay well away from them.

[coraltoes]

Hi there
i have a 3yo DD. She hates princesses/ dressing up/ face painting. Her fav peppa character is George, she loves digging in mud and sand, she plays swingball in the garden, throws like a pro and hardly ever wears girly pink. We build duplo towers to see who can make the tallest. She eats vegetables because they make her "big and strong and clever and fast". She loves swimming, dislikes ballet, likes gymnastics (jumping and balancing).

Basically not all girls are fairy loving girly girls. If she grows up surrounded by brothers she wont have much of a chance to become a disney princess :)

One thing she does that is perhaps more "girly" than otherwise is sit quiety, drawing, reading, playing without the physicality. That can be a lovely break for a cup of coffee!

Good luck, i know it feels hard now but you will become great friends and love eachother as much as you love your boys. Your family are mad though, why in gods name would you say she would be a slapper- how poisonous. Distance yourself from these fools x

[Frizz1986]

Sorry you feel so disappointed about having a girl.
I only have 1 (a little girl) and although I wasn't bothered what we had so i cant relate to that I can tell you that your family seem pretty mean at the moment. They should be supportive of you and excited about the arrival, not judging your parenting skills.
You will be a fab mum to a girl and she wont necessarily be a girly girl, but if she is you'll deal with it well (you will probably surprise yourself)

Me and dh assumed we would have a boy (we don't know why) so when a girl popped out we were adamant that it would be wearing geeky boyish things as i am just not a really girly person. But fast forward 7 months and it turns out she looks pretty in girly things and so some stuff she has is very girly and other stuff not so much.
Your daughter will grow as part of your family and you will love her just as much. If you are doing boyish things then she will grow up enjoying them too.
I think a lot of people suffer a slight disappointment if they get ideas in their minds. I always think the upset is more about the loss of that dream and ideas that you have spent so much time imagining and if you just think about making worm and mud cocktails with your little girl and her big brothers watching out for her hopefully you will feel a bit better.

[SandorClegane]

Also I think you might find some understanding about your family on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2063324-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families

[KEGirlOnFire]

Can I just make one small comment (I don't have too much to add to what others have because I have one DD and I very much wanted a DD so I can't imagine the disappointment you feel). I was never told by my parents that they loved me. Ever. I was never cuddled and never got attention (I was one of 5).

So I swear (alright maybe I don't swear on it ) that there isn't a girl alive more loved and more cuddled than my precious DD.

So my message to you is that your gorgeous little girl (pink or not) will not be treated the way you were. You are already way beyond the capabilities of your parents because you are WORRIED about it. Quite clearly they didn't get a shit. You will love your little girl and she will end up adored by you all, whether she's a pink princess or not. Because she is YOUR little girl and you will make her life amazing.

[squizita]

Still a few PP where the solution seems to be "don't let her have pink she'll not be girly then" and nevermind she might not like girl things.

Would the reverse thread say "nevermind, he might not like sports?" or "just make him read quietly and ban footballs and Xmen from the house..." I think not.

The toys/clothing we offer kids has become gender polarised which is a bad thing. However it is simplistic and ironically sends out a dodgy message if girls are praised for gravitating to the (artificially constructed) 'boy toys' only. Instead, there needs to be a focus on positive traits and behaviours regardless of gender - in an ideal world every child should feel uninhibited to choose from any aisle or colour of toy, any activity loud/sporty or quiet/nurturing.

So the issue here is with being 'girly'? No, the social signifiers are not the problem in this particular case (I'm not talking socially I'm talking here and now): the abuse and internalised sexism are. It might seem a simple and effective solution to say 'right, we'll just make her not girly' but though this may seem pro-feminist and a neat solution on the surface, it is deeply problematic in the longer run. Indoctrinating a child before they understand what a 'social construct' is that to gain approval they must not like certain things - rather than freeing them to embrace a wider range of influences is something to be handled with care.
I'm not sure a situation where the mum has massive insecurities and fear of women due to being told they are 'bad' is the right place for that kind of approach. It could easily veer off into 'women are bad' with a more PC coat of varnish on it, but the same old message.

In all honesty.
"Banning" things/colours to make yourself comfortable will not help you get over your issues, and will store up a lot of issues for the future if she decides to backlash or (all the sadder) quietly absorbs that the things she likes/liked are 'wrong' so she should behave as others want to make them feel comfortable.

Never force her to do 'girly' stuff. Never ban 'girly' stuff. She will be a little person from day one, and soon her unique personality will show: be led by what you see develops her personality and makes her thrive: as several PP have said their girls are happy because they are treated positively and express themselves.

Takes work hat off