Is it really so wrong to punish??

[Zil131]

DS (2.9) is perfectly capable of getting himself to the toilet and having a wee; but has continually pooed in his pants. Patience to ignore what is a concious act (he runs off if I catch him doing it) is wearing thin. We have just come back from a weeks holiday with the grandparents, where regular poo scraping and clothes changing whilst out for the day has got somewhat tedious.
My dad can't believe us modern mums just turn a blind eye...
Anybody punished? I've tried all kinds of rewards, but nothing seems to work.

[HinnyPet]

Have you tried the poo party book? Worked wonders for dd. Punishing won't work, sorry.

[RobynLou]

my mum punished me and it led to me having real issues with going to the loo for years, I used to hold on for ages until I couldn't hold on anymore and then wet myself. this went on for an incredibly embarrassingly long time.

[gorionine]

I do not think punishing works. we are talking about physical ability to control, maybe your Ds is just not able to control what comes of him yet, not very fair to punish him IMHO.

[Carbonated]

Just listen to yourself. You want to punish him for having a poo somewhere inconvenient to you. At 2.9.

My friend punished her DC for the same thing and they are still soiling themselves at 5. I don't know why (it might be physical issues or it might be because of the punishments), but clearly punishing has not helped them or her.

Rewards and patience are the way forward.

[Besom]

What is the poo party book? I would google but am afraid of what might come up!

[BertieBotts]

I wouldn't punish him, because it can lead to issues, and I very much doubt he is doing it consciously. In any case if he IS doing it consiously punishment will probably make him more defiant and more likely to do it on purpose.

How about getting some washable training pants like the bright bots ones? They don't look like nappies and won't hold a wee for very long but should contain a poo and reduce the amount of poo-scraping needed.

[booyhoo]

he runs off if you catch him doing it.

you mean he is doing what until now has been a completely natural thing (pooing in his nappy) it is just that now mummy has swapped his nappy for pants and gets cross when he does what he has always done before. no wonder he is running away.

punishing will create big issues with pooing. even just getting frustrated will make him want to hide it.

sounds like you need to start again wrt pooing. forget the past, forget any poo scraping. go back to the start and treat it as though you are just introducing pooing in the potty (btw he will already have issues because you have been frustrated with him so this will take time) reward when he does and ignore when he doesn't. expect to have lots of poo scraping and dont get frustrated, you are changing the rules for him. not him being naughty for the sake of it.

[Zil131]

Ok now I feel bad. I've just spent an exhausting week with a dissaproving grandfather essentially saying I wouldn't have let you get away wth that...

[overmydeadbody]

Don't punish, ignore your grandfather.

[EvilTwins]

I had similar issues with one of my DTDs. She weed in the loo with no problems at all, but would poo in her knickers. I got very very frustrated, but in the end she got it. However, she didn't like pooing in her pants, and even though she got the toilet thing eventually, we still have problems with her - she will still hold onto poos for literally days, and then had terrible problems pushing them out (sorry - TMI). She's had constipation medication from the Dr, but it doesn't help, as she still tries to hold onto it, which leads to accidents.

I really feel for you. Try as hard as you can just to be patient. I don't think your DS is doing this to be naughty - so the "you wouldn't have got away with that when you were a child" comments are a bit beside the point. From our experience, it does seem that some chidren just find it more difficult to learn to do poos in the appropriate place. Try not to let your DS see that it annoys you, and he WILL come round to it eventually. In the meantime, just persevere. We ended up buying the cheapest knickers we could find, and just binning them if needs be if we were out or if the pants were really icky. Not much more expensive that pull-ups, and much more effective, as they're not a "step back" IYSWIM.

[EvilTwins]

Sorry - has terrible problems. She's 4 now and it's still not completely resolved.

[tribpot]

My ds was much older than this before he would poo in the loo, in fact I think he had already started school (but was old enough to do it before or after school IYKWIM). He was wee-dry for ages but always asked for a nappy to do a poo in. I have no idea why he wanted to poo in a nappy when he'd figured out how to wee in the loo but it seemed to work out fine. Punishing him would have seemed wrong, to be honest - surely they will do it when they're ready? I know it's how we train cats but then they are less susceptible to rewards like stickers

Don't know what our parents' generation did - but I do recall my grandmother telling she spent like a year trying to potty train my mum. Honestly, I know washables were a pain with no washing machine and flipping mangle but really? (My uncle used to mangle my mum's fingers, nice).

[Zil131]

Oh Zapostrophe, that is all so familiar! I will have a new resolve to back off and try my very very hardest to be patient,and hide my feelings.

Also, EvilTwins, agree with just binning the pants, makes the clean up so much less of a chore!!

[MarthaQuest]

well I have to say that I got really visibly upset with DS aged 22 months when he did poos on the carpet.

Seeing me upset (not smacking ) did the trick as at that age , most dcs are eager to please, and he went on the potty since then without further ado.

I would show your ds that his behaviour displeases you.

[MarthaQuest]

I'm sorry but I would really struggle to hide my feelings towards a nearly 3 year old soiling themselves.
It's not rocket science is it, most pets are house trained easily enough.

I wouldn't punish but I would voice and show my disapproval.

[booyhoo]

"most pets are house trained easily enough."

nice

do you feed your dc out of dishes on the floor and make them sleep in a crate too?

[CoteDAzur]

I wouldn't punish but I wouldn't ignore, either.

Show that you are not happy. Don't shout but let him know that pooing in his pants makes mummy unhappy and angry.

[undercovamutha]

I think re. a 2.9yo I would TRY not to get cross. It's still very young. Try not to hate yourself if you do occasionally though. I remember my DD (2.6y at time) having an (understandable) potty training regression when DS was born. I knew it was an attention/insecurity thing, but lack of sleep and pools of pee all round the house were a VERY bad combination!

However, my DD is now nearly 4 and very occasionally wets herself cos she doesn't want to stop watching the tv/playing with her toys. I do tend to get a bit cross now, as she has been using the toilet for nearly 2 years now.

[sfxmum]

personally I think punishing is counter-productive
mine was dry very early even during the night but
for poos the road was different at first she wanted the nappy back on, then got used to potty and even by 3 when she would use the toilet she still preferred the potty well into 4, I just let her get on with it but pointed out it would be easier for all if she stuck to just using the toilet

similarly you might talk to him and say that it only takes a few minuted to go in the toilet but washing him and changing clothes keeps him from play

[MarthaQuest]

Of course I don't.

I was simply making the point that potty triaining really doesn't have to be a big deal, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing disapproval!

It does not mean that your child will automatically spend years overcoming constipation.

I find all this tiptoeing around insulting to the child tbh.

[booyhoo]

i just dont get how you can show dissaproval.

for the whole of the child's life it has pooed in a nappy. it is used to having something close to it's bottom when they poo and then all of a sudden they are expected to poo into a potty or a toilet. to them it is a big change from what they have always done and i think it is unfair on the child for a parent to show disapproval for something that up until that point was completely normal and natural. change can be difficult for some children and when the rules are suddenly changed by an adult it can be confusing, you cant blame them for wanting to keep doing what has always felt natural to them. i dont think showing dissaproval does them any good.

[MarthaQuest]

well, yes I'm aware that i'm going against current thinking on potty training here, but really

example

yuck, big boys don't poo on pants, yuck, poor mummy's goig to have to clean up all this mess now.

Good boys go the the toilet/potty whatever.

I'm not advocating verbal abuse ffs, but voicing consistent disapproval will do them good if they then quickly stop pooing in their pants and their self esteem is immediately raised in the knowledge that they are grown up clean children and pleasing their parents.

[booyhoo]

i would rather raise their self esteem by praise when they do poo in the toilet than by lowering their self esteem when they poo in their pants.

if you say "good boys poo in the toilet" when a child has pooed in his pants you are saying "you aren't a good boy". this is something that up until that point had no good or bad conotations, no guilt attatched to it. the parent has changed the rules but the child is made to feel bad for something that feels very natural.

it is like someone suddenly telling you, you will now sleep standing up. all you know is to sleep lying down, it would feel very strange for you to have to sleep standing up and you would no doubt try and lie down. if you thought you would be chastised for it or even given a dissaproving look for it, you would go away and try to do it in secret.

[jobhuntersrus]

Have you tried taking him shopping for new pants? Let him choose whichever ones he wants let him really take ownership of them. You can then do the whole " We don't want to poo on spiderman (or whoever maybe on his new pants) do we" Keep it light hearted, you really don't want him to start holding them in as that causes all sorts of problems. Go OTT on praise and rewards, stickers or whatever if and when he does poo on the toilet. By the time you notice him doing it he runs away because it's too late by then really. He genuinely may not feel the sensation he needs to go until it's a bit too late.